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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 08:00 AM
Original message
Imagine there's no country...
.... a beautiful thought from a beautiful song.

But there are countries. And IMHO a country has a right to control who lives in it.

There are countries around the world I would like to live in but they are not going to let me.

I'm not happy with what Arizona has done, I think it crosses a very clear civil liberties line. I don't think it will pass constitutional muster.

But I am AGAINST illegal immigration especially at a time when we are struggling to put our own citizens to work. And I don't care who disagrees.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 08:02 AM
Response to Original message
1. Targeting the illegal immigrants hasn't worked
We need to target scumbag employers who exploit them and use them to drive wages down and break unions.

The laws are on the books. No one has seemed interested in enforcing them in a very long time.
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rurallib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. don't forget fixing US policies that caused Mexican peasants
to lose their small farms etc.
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zeemike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 08:28 AM
Response to Original message
3. That is the problem with imagining.
You have to overcome what is.
But I can overcome it, and I can imagine a world where you are completely free to travel anywhere and do anything you want. And there were no borders and boarder guards checking your papers.

But you may say I am a dreamer....but I am not the only one.
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Gman2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 08:31 AM
Response to Original message
4. It is NOT about immigration. It is about attacking Dem natural constituencies.
They went after Van Jones. They go after immigrants, blacks, gays women. The rethugs are about punishing, and marginalizing any that would support Dems. If you can be identified as such, you are in trouble. They will make miserable any that might not gain them power. It is sickening, and we better put the fear of God into them soon.
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AnArmyVeteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 08:52 AM
Response to Original message
5. Imagine was a beautiful song, but not to Pat Robertson or his duped followers...
In 1990, on the 10th anniversary of John Lennon's murder, Pat Robertson, the television 'evangelist', spent an hour condemning John Lennon as being anti-god and evil.

I was channel surfing when I came across the lyrics of John Lennon's 'Imagine' on a flip chart. It was Pat Robertson's 700 Club show and he was attacking John and the song Imagine?

Pat Robertson, the same radical right winger who proposed assassinating other world leaders, used a flip chart with every line from Lennon's song "Imagine". Robertson attacked every line, one by one. He even attacked the line 'brotherhood of man'.

The real evil was in the hate-filled hypocrite Robertson. Perhaps if Robertson obviously never even bothered to listen to Lennon's song "Beautiful Boy", a song about a father's love for his son. I doubt Robertson would even understand the song about a father's love for his son even though the Bible is a story about a father's (God) love for his son (Jesus).

It is unfortunate that Robertson is a 'leader' who has the ability to dupe and manipulate so many illiterate, ignorant and hate-filled people into believing his right wing agenda. It is sad how Robertson's clout among the religious extremists in the US caused them to vote for the likes of the evil criminal GW Bush, who is responsible for the murder of almost 5,000 American soldiers and hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis. And all of their deaths were the result of Bush deliberately lying to go to war so he could funnel hundreds of billions from our treasury to the pockets of corrupt corporations in the form of no-bid contracts.

God help spare us from the evilness and ignorance of the republican party and religious fanatics in the United States. John Lennon would be bravely speaking out against the tyranny of the right wing mutants of today just as he did while he was alive. John was eloquent in his commentary of his times and are deeply missed today. We the people need more leaders like John Lennon to speak out for them.

It is too bad we lost such a great voice for social justice and all of the wonderful music John could have created for the world during the past 28 years since he was murdered. The same delusional sickness that consumed the mind of the murderer of Lennon also resides in the mind of people like Pat Robertson and his followers. Amen, and amen... (but I pray to the real God, not the god of the right wing of the republican party, ie, the 'god of capitalism'. If Jesus were to return today right wing republicans would crucify him all over again because Jesus fed the hungry, he gave to the poor, he associated with flawed people, he helped the sick, and he gave hope to the downtrodden). Imagine...
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Ozymanithrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
6. Illegal immigration is an issue of supply and demand...
There is a huge demand for cheap labor in this country. Until we stop the demand, illegals ill supply cheap labor.

In my Southern California Neighborhood most neighbors use a yard service. They are very cheap when you consider the amount of time it takes as well as the cost. These services are run by citizens but staffed by illegals. Many people use a cleaning service once a week. Most of them are families where both parents work and kids are students. So once a week or once every other week people hire someone to do the heavy stuff and then just work to maintain it. The Construction industry here uses a lot of undocumented labor because they work much cheaper than the unions. The agricultural industry is completely dependent on immigrant labor, and so is your food bill. Hell, fast food restaurants use undocumented cheap labor as do many other restaurants. Wallmart appears to still use undocumented labor to clean their stores, though they were slapped with a fine a few years back for doing that.

Americans are addicted to cheap immigrant labor. Even if you don't personally use them, if you eat food, work in an office, enjoy the out doors, visit a restroom outside your home, or any one of a thousand other activities you have used that labor indirectly.

What we are going to do about cheap immigrant labor is a conversation this nation needs to have. We all benefit from it, directly or indirectly. Changing how we use it will affect every one of us.

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