If the Arizona law stands as written and is acted upon, how

long will it take them after stopping and arresting the same people who turn out to be citizens to require an identifier that can be seen? I'm talking about a red white and blue star sticker or something of the sort for the license plates, on their drivers license, on the papers they will have to produce, on their clothing and maybe even on their houses. Ostensibly to save the costs of investigations. Don't think it can happen? Hitler did it with the Jews didn't he??

N&U

:nuke:

Godwin's Law wasn't intended to be used to call out legitimate comparisons to the Nazis.

Just sayin'...

:nuke:

If we jailed and fined those responsible for this massive exploitation of vulnerable desperate people this so-called problem would have never been allowed to escalate to the present monstrosity that it has become.

The problem of families that have children that were born in the United States having citizenship and deporting their parents is hideous. Or deporting young people who were taken into the country at a young age and deporting them is a bit problematic unless you have zero compassion.

We need a two fold solution. A reasonable amnesty program and strict enforcement of laws prohibiting hiring illegal immigrants. The very people that scream the loudest about the illegals are the very same ones who support unrestrained businesses that exploit these desperate people; i.e., they are called Republicans.

Or do we wear the stars?

This law violates even Seussian logic.

a law abiding legal resident there is nothing to fear.

Hopefully President Obama will finally make the federal government crack down on the employers super hard and prevent laws like this from popping up from very frustrated communities.

so they can't meet the criteria necessary to not be arrested. Also the racial profiling aspect is profound.


I am all for enforced immigration laws and I am against granting legal status to people who broke the law to enter this country, even so this law is way over the line.

A birth certificate is not required. A driver's license is sufficient to prove lawful presence in the state of Arizona.

...

The law hasn't even taken effect yet.

He was born in California and was detained until his wife could produce his birth certificate.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8214448

though it shows us just where this crap is heading, citizens being detained because they're not lily-white and not carrying their papers.

though it shows us just where this crap is heading, citizens being detained because they're not lily-white and not carrying their papers.

I've read the bill and I don't see where it mentions that a driver's license is proof of anything. Did I miss it, or is the bill as signed different than AZ SB1070, or ...?

Where do you see in the law that a driver's license is sufficient to prove lawful presence in the state?

Arizona Senate Bill 1070
http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf

Thanks.

Judging by the dates listed in the bill overview, here:
http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070o.asp

and the "as transmitted to the Governor" document, here:
http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/legtext/49leg/2r/summary/h.sb1070_04-19-10_astransmittedtogovernor.doc.htm

it looks as if the bill, as signed, includes changes made by the House, here:
http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/legtext/49leg/2r/summary/s.1070pshs_housechanges.doc.htm

and does specify acceptable forms of ID.

What about the guy that was asked to provide his papers at the weigh station and his social security card and driver's license was deemed in sufficient and he was hauled off? His wife had to bring his birth cerificate in so that he could be released. This happened to a US Cititzen.

Besides, the new AZ law has not even gone into effect yet.

get caught up in a false arrest and be unable to clear yourself and end up in limbo for a long time. How many people have landed in foreign prisons for the same type of crime indefinitely..not the right papers.

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required.

btw grow up and learn to not call people names whom you do not know.

the only other id i have is my social security card which is not a valid id. since i`m old white guy in illinois i would`t be thrown in jail until i could produce the "proper documents". i would be given a ticket and pay a fine. in the same situation in Arizona a latino looking guy would be put in jail until someone could prove with a valid-forge proof-id.

I'm an American citizen and resident. If I suddenly awaken from from a nightmare (or to a nightmare, more to the point) and find myself in Arizona, how can I prove I'm a citizen?

My WA driver license (pre-REAL ID) doesn't identify me as a citizen or a resident. Some states issue driver licenses to non-citizens.

My passport is somewhere...I think...but I certainly don't carry it for travel within the US. Never had to (because hi, we don't do that Soviet-style "show me your papers" crap in my country).

My SS card is in the safe, along with my birth certificate.

How am I to prove that I'm a citizen?

to work in the mill after ww2. the only thing they brought was themselves and their families came up when they had enough to buy a shack on the edge of town. the workers lived in "silver city" which consisted of rail cars along the bank of the river. these families became citizens over the years along their children and grand children. if illinois would have had this law then....

it`s so easy for the uneducated to think complex issues can be resolved with sound bites from the radio and tv.

Being in the USA without a proper visa is not a crime.

Second, it allows for essentially random stops by police for no reason. There are good reasons for the constitutional prohibition on such things.

At least it is now, in Arizona.

Also, the law specifically does *not* allow random stops for no reason. It requires "reasonable suspicion," *exactly the same* as what is currently required for the police to demand identification.

There are some good reasons to oppose this bill, but hysterical comparisons to Nazi Germany are not among them.

Arrizona has no jurisdiction to administer federal policy. The law is invalid on its face.

As for 'reasonable suspicion', you should consider the famously arbitrary nature of policing aspractsed by prominent Arizonans like Joe Arpaio. To these folk, the appearance of being Latino would be cited as adequate reason for scrutiny of their papers.

Arizona has every ability to administer *state criminal* law, to make it a *state crime* to violate immigration policy. The Arizona law does not change federal immigration policy at all.

As for "reasonable suspicion," the issue has been well addressed by the Supreme Court. I feel no need to look at or care what some podunk cops think when I can just read the Supreme Court cases, which make it pretty clear that ethnicity alone can not constitute reasonable suspicion.

Consider that this bill is a) an ex post facto law, and b) a bill of attainder.

you may not care what Podunk cops think, but if you're a Latino in Arizona who has to deal with them the issue is not academic. I think most people would prefer not to have their rights violated at all, rather than having it remedied later. And Sheriff Joe Arpaio has a long reputation for violating people's rights.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Arpaio

the federal government has to modify nafta and legalize drugs. as long as there is`t work in mexico and there`s work here, they will do anything to get here.

yes the employers need to be make hiring "illegals" a major offense

because she looks Latina? She's a citizen and has been here since 1952.

Nothing to fear? Are you for real? What about police harassment every time you set foot out of doors?

I guess that's all right with you if it happens to other people? :wtf:

So calling undocumented immigrants "criminals" is a misnomer.

#2. Native-born Arizonans of Latin American descent greatly outnumber "illegals."

#3. Was that subject line an unintentional slip on your part, perhaps?

If a simple identifier is substituted for documentation, what would stop illegal immigrants from adopting the indentifier themselves? For your analogy to be applicable, people would have *wanted* to wear the star of david.

duplicated. Possibly one that shines in a certain way if a light is shone on it...they'll figure out something. To do otherwise will cost them tons of money when they make a lot of false arrests.

Are you posting from the previous century?

birth certificate which I had to reorder when I became old enough for social security because I had lost my old one. As for a passport, I've never ever needed one.

they want a copy from the court house with a fresh official seal and date. big pain in the ass but it does cut down on fraud....

How does ICE do it? Do they mark people, make arbitrary stops to ask for "papers," profile, send legitimate citizens back to Mexico? Haven't heard a lot of complaints about them in that vein. Seems like it would make sense for AZ law enforcement to follow their model as far as detecting undocumented aliens goes.:shrug:

If ICE does this as a routine part of their job, and would likely do a lot more of it if they had the personnel, I don't get what the big brouhaha is about state law enforcement doing it.

Very specialized.

Arizona cops may not. They might not accept visas, and misunderstand what might pass for evidence of legal status if it is not obvious.

For instance, tourists. There's no reason for them to bother with a driver's license. Supposedly they'd have their passports and visas, but will the Arizona cops be trained to recognize that? And refugees and asylees.

There are many who have trouble getting their driver's licenses because state bureaucrats don't know that people could still be legally here even if they don't have green cards. Like any law, there is a lot of grey area. This law does not account for that and treats it as a simple proposition.

If the IRS says you owe them 8K and you are fighting that, your record still shows you failed to pay the taxes, and so on.

since they are supposed to be setting the procedures on how to enforce the new law. AZ would do well to receive training from ICE if they would agree to it, or at least follow their training regimen.

BTW I just had a laugh at dinner with my loverly SO and her sister. They are both decades long citizens of the USA and the other sister has a security clearance that curls TSA short hairs. Anyway.... What type of shoes can you identify illegal Filippinas?????

They have soooooo many!!!