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The idea that countries like Germany, Britain, France, Sweden etc. are bad places baffles me.

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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 05:18 PM
Original message
The idea that countries like Germany, Britain, France, Sweden etc. are bad places baffles me.
And the dread warnings that the US must not allow itself to become like them.

It's idiocy. Pure, unadulterated idiocy.

Jon Stewart and Wyatt Cenac skewered it much, much more spectacularly than I could. I now defer to their superior snark:

Part 1: http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-april-21-2009/the-stockholm-syndrome-pt--1

Part 2: http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-april-22-2009/the-stockholm-syndrome-pt--2
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Stardust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
1. It baffles me, too. I've been to each of those countries and we should
be so lucky. Sweden (and the other Scandinavian countries) was like paradise to me (and this was before I became politically aware.) Throw in Cuba, for good measure. The Cubans may appear dirt-poor, but their value system is priceless.
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. I'd rather not conflate those two. They're very very different.
And that's all I'm going to say about the subject.
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newfie11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #1
17. I totally totally agree with you. n/t
We should be so lucky!
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
2. Also, I was researching Greece as a possible relocation country for myself.
Edited on Sun Apr-25-10 05:29 PM by Cleita
Apparently, they have national health care and are members of the EU so if you can get a health care card from any EU country you can use in any where in Europe that is a member. The cost of living is 30% less than in much of Europe and actually unlike many other European countries welcomes expat retirees and anyone who wants to live there or own a business. Also, it seems there are laws in place that regulate much of what is going unregulated in the USA today. As far as their economic crash of a couple of months ago the EU is working with the government to rescue them so it seems all is well.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 06:34 AM
Response to Reply #2
26. Cleita, you may want to scratch Greece.
Edited on Mon Apr-26-10 06:34 AM by Karenina
Social upheaval is on the way. That little economic train wreck is ongoing and all is very far from well. :-(
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
3. Americans are provincial idiots who will believe pretty much anything you tell them...
Thus, such absurdities as you mention are trivial to achieve here in the US.
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Codeine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. I don't know about us being especially idiotic,
having met more than my fair share of dumbshits in Europe, but we are as provincial as a motherfucker, much to our detriment. The world spent many decades learning lessons from us, but we made the mistake of not believing they had just as many - if not more -things to teach us about how to run an equitable society.

A sad mistake.
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Ishoutandscream2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
4. Absolutely brilliant!
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
5. Mmmm. Somebody seems to agree with the aforementioned idiocy
but isn't willing to make a post in this thread explaining why.

Come on, don't be shy, I want to hear your (snicker) arguments.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
6. I've run into many people that thinks Europe is "socially degenerate" and similar garbage.
Edited on Sun Apr-25-10 05:35 PM by Odin2005
Basically it's fear of social liberalism more than anything else. Many of the more intellectual social conservatives have this moronic notion equating secularism, low birth rates, feminism, and the decline of civilization.
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Ah, like what the Nazis thought of New Deal USA, huh?
And no, I haven't broken Godwin's law because the behavior is very very similar indeed.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. Good point.
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #6
18. yup -- i've encountered that several times as well
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 01:20 AM
Response to Reply #18
23. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 01:36 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. Deleted message
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 02:54 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. Completely missing the point.
The person is likely a victim of fundie anti-gay bigotry, THAT is what's sad.

I didn't think I'd have to explain that.
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mikeSchmuckabee Donating Member (288 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
10. I find that most people who espouse these beliefs
have never been any closer to the country in question than the airport men's room (i.e. republicans who think their is no edible food in England, no handguns in Belgium, no businesses in Liechtenstein, and folks die in the street because of socialized medicine in France.)
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Codeine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. To be fair,
I've had European friends who are surprised how nice things normally are here; every nation is the target of silly stereotypes that vanish when people crawl out of their holes.
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. Thank you.....I hate it when we give ourselves blanket putdowns
..When I hear an American say things like "Americans are stupid"..."so fucking provincial", etc. I want to say "Speak for yourself -- Maybe your family and friends fit that bill, but mine don't and I don't care to be included in your negative self-appraisal".

Having lived and studied in Europe -- and visited five more countries in as many visits, I'm WELL aware of how much better off most of the Euros are...and I frankly think that applies to most on this board.
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rfranklin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. I had French people tell me how bad socialized medicine is in that country...
Of course, they are pampered executives who have gold-plated health plans while working here in the U.S.A.
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doc03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
12. It has been forty years since I was in Germany
I was stationed at Fort Gordan in Augusta GA one year and Germany for a year, I would take Germany over Augusta any day.
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era veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #12
29. Thats funny, 44 years since Augusta, Army Brat, and 34 years since I lived in
Germany. I probably had a more privileged experience in Augusta than you did. I lived on 'The Rock' in Germany for three years which had the worst reputation of any Army base, excepting VietNam. I would take Germany over Augusta as well... I beg your pardon momma
What did you say?
My mind was drifted off on Martinique Bay
It`s not that I`m not interested you see
Augusta Georgia is just no place to be http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9g-rUedKu4M&feature=related
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MindandSoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
13. I love it! Through its humor, it does make a strong point:
Socialism is not communism. . .and people living in liberal socialist countries are very happy to be there, rather than under the "false" capitalist government of the U.S.!

I just wish this also showed that. . .healthy capitalism can co-habit with liberal socialism! . . .and that freedom of speech doesn't need to be thwarted because of a socialist style government!
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backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
19. Funny, I'm thinking of going to grad school over there.
And a large part of the reason I'm considering it is because those horrible commie governments over there subsidize higher education to a far greater extent that you see here in the U.S., thus tuition & other expenses for getting a Masters or a PhD is far less than over here, and things like fellowships are more available.
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paulsby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 10:34 PM
Response to Original message
20. i prefer the way We are to the way THEY are
but i hardly think they are "bad"

there are some aspects of their countries/governance i would like us to adopt, and others i would want to avoid at all costs.

i frigging dig france, though.
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Withywindle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 10:40 PM
Response to Original message
21. Where does this come from?
I swear, I am THIS CLOSE to having glamour shots taken and advertising myself as a mail-order bride looking for a spouse (doesn't even have to be male, cause those countries are just that much better) in Canada or the EU.
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krabigirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 12:38 AM
Response to Original message
22. These countries have good and bad.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 07:12 AM
Response to Reply #22
27. True. There is no utopia.
I, however, have big problems about where my country is at this point.
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-10 07:16 AM
Response to Original message
28. We could learn a lot from those countries, and others.
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