Can You Pass The Iran Quiz ?

By Jeffrey Rudolph

24 April, 2010
Countercurrents.org


What can possibly justify the relentless U.S. diplomatic (and mainstream media) assault on Iran ?

It cannot be argued that Iran is an aggressive state that is dangerous to its neighbors, as facts do not support this claim. It cannot be relevant that Iran adheres to Islamic fundamentalism, has a flawed democracy and denies women full western-style civil rights, as Saudi Arabia is more fundamentalist, far less democratic and more oppressive of women, yet it is a U.S. ally. It cannot be relevant that Iran has, over the years, had a nuclear research program, and is most likely pursuing the capacity to develop nuclear weapons, as Pakistan, India, Israel and other states are nuclear powers yet remain U.S. allies—indeed, Israel deceived the U.S. while developing its nuclear program.

The answer to the above-posed question is fairly obvious: Iran must be punished for leaving the orbit of U.S. control. Since the Islamic Revolution in 1979, when the Shah was removed, Iran, unlike, say, Saudi Arabia, acts independently and thus compromises U.S. power in two ways: i) Defiance of U.S. dictates affects the U.S.'s attainment of goals linked to Iran; and, ii) Defiance of U.S. dictates establishes a “bad” example for other countries that may wish to pursue an independent course. The Shah could commit any number of abuses—widespread torture, for example—yet his loyalty to the U.S. exempted him from American condemnation—yet not from the condemnation of the bulk of Iranians who brought him down.

The following quiz is an attempt to introduce more balance into the mainstream discussion of Iran.

Iran Quiz Questions :

remainder below:

http://www.countercurrents.org/rudolph240410.htm

I guess they are somewhat tolerant of other religions? :shrug:

There are more Iranian Jews in Los Angeles than in Tehran, and probably more in Israel. They fled en masse. And the regime has not treated religious minorities well: Baha'is, Christians, Zoroastrians and Jews have all suffered in various ways, as, for that matter, have Sufis.

go to the wrong church. Has Iran ever taken all the children away from a religious sect because they don't like their religion? No. Texas has. If they did that in Iran we would call it genocide. But when it's done here in America, in violation of federal law, it's called better safe than sorry.

Pedophiles have no interest in marrying their victims. Texas didn't have a problem in the world with that when it was just old uncle Zed and cousin Clem doing it. But the second it took on religious over tones. Then they had to out law that. Not everyone was doing it. There may have been one or two people at most. That's no reason to move against the whole religious community. That's no better than the state taking away your children because your neighbor was using and selling drugs.

You can't be seriously arguing there's more religious freedom in Iran than in America. I can go to any major city and urge people to become Jews, Muslims, Christians, Pagans, et cetera. If I was to do that in Iran I would be subject to the death penalty, ergo:

"The government of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has introduced legislation before the Iranian Majlis that would mandate the death penalty for apostates from Islam, a sign that it will brook no proselytizing in the country. "Life for so-called apostates in Iran has never been easy, but it could become literally impossible if Iran passes this new draft penal code," says Joseph Grieboski, the president of the Institute on Religion and Public Policy in Washington. "For anyone who dares question the regime's religious ideology, there could soon be no room to argue—only death.''

http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/world/2008/05/08/in-iran-covert-christian-converts-live-with-secrecy-and-fear.html

You seriously believe there is no need to pass a law because only 1 or 2 people do something? You seriously believe only one of two FLDS dudes "married" under age girls?

Good grief.

I'm kind of blown away that the poster would choose the Branch Davidian Church as the test for religious freedom in America. For all our flaws religious freedom is one area we do a decent job in.

Interestingly it was American action in Ruby Ridge and Waco that motivated Tim McVeigh to blow up the Murrah Building.

flds stuff was going on, last time, he claimed to be a lawyer and it was sounding like a lawyer for the church.

Couldn't quite see protecting children as being more important than religious freedom. Odd indeed.

The government had to pay millions of dollars to Randy Weaver for violating his rights. But those are the excptions that prove the rule. They were aberrations not models.

The government had to pay millions of dollars to Randy Weaver for violating his rights. But those are the exceptions that prove the rule. They were aberrations not models.

Of course people hated him inserting facts into the hysteria.

the sperm cell is what becomes the fetus. It's the sperm cell that begins to dvide. Not the ovum. The ovum becomes the placenta.

That would actually be illegal considering I'm a Priest. I never claimed to be working with them. You're confusing me with another poster. His name was wolf something or other. He was a lawyer working with them.

Now, when some posters took to calling me and others pedophiles simply because we refused to drink the cool aid an submit to the hysteria. I did warn you that I employ 12 floors of Lawyers and I would own Your and Skinners (as publisher) ass on a libel suit. Skinner was even sent an E-mail informing him of that in no uncertain terms. But never at anytime did I claim to be a lawyer and working with them. On that you are clearly mistaken.

I never called you a pedophile, but probably said you support what was going on at the flds ranch. Libel suit my ass. Sure, sue me for an anonymous forum post saying that.

But I wasn't supporting what they were doing. Merely questioning what was being done to them. But to put into writing and publish that someone is a pedophile. That is indeed libel. The only defense to libel is truth and there is no truth to that.

complicit

What spawns religious intolerance is differences in moral standards, customs and traditions. What can viewed as immoral behavior in one religion can be good moral behavior in another religion. Just look at the burkah. In muslim communities it's considered the height of morality. Outside the muslim community it's viewed as oppressive to women and the depths of immorality. The different religions have different concepts of the lowest of the low. With the muslims it's infidels. Here in a more secular America it's pedophile. Two different words with the exact same cultural cause and effect. The brain shuts down and all thinking ceases. There can only be one position or one opinion. You may not question authority or accusations. Because that's paramount to defending the infidel/pedophile. The only person that would defend an infidel/pedophile is another infidel/pedophile. Of course you are usually guilty by virtue of accusation. Two different words with the exact same cause and effect. Both even have their variations on Li-Li-Li-Li !!!BOOM!!! AKA explosive repercussions of some kind. But all comes down to varying opinions on what is and is not moral. My God, if anyone tried to take the children away from all Catholics simply because some Catholic parents unquestioningly delivered their children into the hands of Pedophiles in the church. There would be blood in the streets ankle high.

"Pedophiles have no interest in marrying their victims. Texas didn't have a problem in the world with that when it was just old uncle Zed and cousin Clem doing it. But the second it took on religious over tones. Then they had to out law that. Not everyone was doing it. There may have been one or two people at most."

If pedophiles have no interest, then why do you say the rest of this? If only "1 or 2 people at most", then why is this guy the 5th sentenced in Texas with 7 others awaiting trial?


http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_14891270
An FLDS man who was to stand trial later this month in Texas on charges related to sexual assault of a child and bigamy has pleaded no contest and been sentenced to two eight-year terms in prison.

Fifty-first District Judge Barbara Walther issued the sentences, which will run concurrently, during a hearing for Lehi Barlow Jeffs, 31, on Thursday in San Angelo, Texas. Texas authorities alleged Jeffs was already married when he entered a "spiritual" marriage with a 16-year-old girl in October 2005 at the Yearning For Zion Ranch in Eldorado, Texas. The state alleged Jeffs subsequently sexually assaulted the girl in September 2006. She gave birth to a daughter in June 2007.

The ranch is home to members of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, which also has major settlements in Utah, Arizona and British Columbia.

Jeffs is the fifth man to be found guilty in Texas on charges related to underage marriages based on evidence seized by authorities during an investigation at the ranch in April 2008. The other four FLDS defendants -- among them the father of Jeffs' victim -- received sentences ranging in length from seven years to 75 years

16 is the legal of age of consent in Alabama, Alaska, Arkansas, Connecticut, District of Columbia, Georgia, Hawaii, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, North Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Vermont, Washington, West Virginia.

That's 30 states and 1 district full of pedophiles that will allow 16 year olds to have sex with or marry adults. That marriage would have been perfectly legal is 30 states.

It wasn't legal there though and looks like more than "one or two people at the most".

Going to the wrong church or missing a prayer meeting can ruin your career and target you for harassment and other abuses. Our first amendment is very tolerant of other religions. But much of America is not.

The U.S. government can't make you love my religion or lack thereof but they can stop you from preventing me from practicing it or not practicing it.

none of the people Ive worked with in 22 year in the army ever made me attend a prayer meeting, church, sermon or any other religious event..My career has not been ruined nor were any of the so ultra successful devout..most cussed like aa sailor and drank like a fish...so I call crap on this..I dare say that my own career was successful, and I have not attended a church with any other soldiers since I have been in..I started as a PVT and worked my way up through the ranks to command my my own company level units and be a senior staff officer advising the division commander...perhaps you have some proof and I am the anomaly but I suspect it is the other way around that you experience or belief is the anomaly and my experience is the rule. Other than that, I cant comment on the rest of the thread with any measure of expertise, but this particular comment is in my belief quite simply wrong.

But even the military chaplains admit that religious discrimination and proselytization is a huge problem. I'm glad that you weren't a part of a unit that's been taken over by Orthodox Christians and Christian fundamentalists Etc. that do this. But where they have taken over. Going to the wrong church can ruin your career.

1. I am not sure why you made the rape comment and I will not waste a lot of effort responding to it. I am sure you have people in you town/community who have raped someone, but that does not mean anything if we are discussing corruption or discrimination committed by your town council. Comparing the criminal actions of an individual to a criminal conspiracy involving mass discrimination appears to be intentionally designed to distract from argument/discussion.

2. While I openly admit that I have not been in every unit, I have been in quite a few and the safe guards, EO reps, and EO Officers, the IG, Calls to congressman, and Legal Assistance, are available to every service member, free of charge, so I cant see it happening on the scale to which you imply. Perhaps isolated incidents occur, though I have not seen them, Ive seen enough crazy stupid actions of individuals to believe someone would do that. That is however a far cry from the systemic sweeping problem that you imply is occurring on a daily basis.

3. You cite chaplains yet you provide no quotes, or references, just open allegations...Now I will be the first to tell you the military is not a perfect organization, and it has its problems, the people are a reflection of our society, your society and community. We are not blank faced anonymous drones. We are just like you and your neighbors..we are just like any other community, with the same hopes, fears, and dreams, and the same human flaws and problems as any community.

So that's where the rape comment comes from. I'm sure you haven't been raped either but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

You are right I have no links to my claims. We have yet to figure out how to link to past conversations. But my sources are military chaplains. I'm a priest and we talk to each other. Guess who they usually go to with complaints of overzealous religious indoctrination? The chaplains. Now where this is really the biggest problem is in recruitment induction centers and the academies like West Point Annapolis. The Air Force Academy is particularly bad from what I've been told. West Point and Annapolis aren't as bad as the Air Force. But the presence of the movement is there and they just need to climb ranks to proliferate. But they basically try to catch the recruits coming through the front door. Also 22 years ago when you joined and went through your basics. This really wasn't a problem and you've probably stayed ahead of it. There is a wave effect to the movement and in some places it's an out right Tsunami. But if you were to assume a new identity and join as a person with no prior military experience. You would more than likely encounter it.

I have some basis of knowledge on this as I am in the organization which you claim has this mass conspiracy of religious zealots.
And my knowledge comes from my 22 years in this organization in all areas and serving with a multitude of differing personalities.

I don't want to cast doubts on you or make accusations about your statements, but you have done nothing but stated rhetoric with no substance. If it is occurring cite an instance, I'll report it myself so the problem can be dealt with.

I have no fear of retaliation on reporting something like this and neither should any soldier. There are way too many avenues in which this can be resolved and I cited them earlier...Congressional inquiries are amazingly effective.

They are also amazingly effective in discovering false claims to cover poor performance. I have investigated quite a few instances. Sometimes the problem lies with the commander sometimes with the soldier.

However, I can not and will not accept as truth vague accusations especially when you have cited no personal experience or reliable source of information you can cite to provide evidence of this conspiracy movement.

It is not that I don't believe mass conspiracies don't happen, it is just that I don't believe they last, eventually someone involved will talk. If this is some years in making conspiracy, which it would have to be to involve people in the top ranks who could implement this unwritten policy you say exists, then some one, some where, who had been discharged because their career was cut short, would have made the complaint.

You cite sources who are unknown, I cite my experience.. I can prove my experience if need simply from displaying my military records and awards, soon my DD 214. You made the accusation though, not me, you hold the burden of proof. I am saying you have not convinced me of truthfulness of you accusation because in my experience it is not there and you have offered no proof to counter my experience. As the accuser, it is you job to prove your accusation.

That was my point.

or marching as the case may be. I'm a priest and I'm not in the military. I have little to no access to military bases. But lets just say a member of the military came to me with that problem instead of a military chaplain. I'm telling you that you have a problem. There you are telling me you do not have that problem. Your too busy explaining to me your great investigative prowess that requires me to gather all your evidence for you to even enter "Christians take over military" into a search engine. But that's where your gonna find a trail that can lead as high as GENERAL Boykin. But you're absolutely right. "Sometimes the problem lies with the commander sometimes with the soldier." You might want to think about that really hard. As in check yourself first. Ignoring or denying the problem will not make it go away. That much I can assure you.

happy you are able to exercise you right to freedom of religion. However that does not mean you get a free pass to throw accusations with nothing to back it. These are my issues from what you have said, not trying to be snarky or an ass here, I just want make my point clear.

1. You state you know because you have had some people presumably soldiers tell you there is a problem, however you have no documented evidence from them, nor do you state what steps they took to resolve this issue. I mentioned that if the discrimination occurs they have several options including congressional requests which would resolve this. My conclusion is that your proof is anecdotal at best and you a have report of a few out of several millions members of the armed services who say this is the case. Additionally, you have million upon millions of retired veterans who have not voiced this complaint in any sort of numbers to suggest this problem, if it exists, is either widespread or rampant with in the ranks.

2. You relate you have little to no access to bases. You are mistaken, very few of our installations forbid you or any civilian from entering the base. In fact most have openness policies which allow you access regularly. Additionally as a priest, you would be welcomed as often a particular base may not be able to provide services for soldiers who share you faith and they often go to the local community for support. You may believe you don't have access or perhaps you do not live near a base, but if you want access you can go anytime you want. All of that assumed you have not been convicted some crime on the base and been barred from entry.


3. I am not sure what you mean by you don't see me walking to match my talking...I walk the walk daily..I take care of soldiers every day, not sure how I can show it to you or what you want..but again I did not make the accusation...you did. You claim a wide spread rampant take over of the military and vast conspiracy...I know from my experience that it does not exist or at least I have not witnessed it so your accusation did not convince me. Now rather that just outright saying you were wrong, I gave you the benefit of the doubt and offered you a chance to defend your accusations with some sort of proof in that you might then convince me that your stated position was correct and that I was wrong.

4. Please feel free to come visit our installations and point out the problems to me that I have apparently shielded my eyes from the past 22 years. I am very open minded and welcome your input and insight, but to tell me what is wrong with my base and organization when you admittedly have no experience or access to our installation is not going to fly without some sort of documented articulable evidence of what you say exists.

Thank you

done to Baha'is, the largest relgious minority in the country:

They outlowed the practice of the religion, and prosecute those who organize worship services or other Baha'i meetings.
They have refused to recognize Baha'i marriages; declaring the wives prostistutes and, in some caes have tried to coerce them into marraiges with Muslim men and/orsiezed the children, puting them in Muslim homes.
They have imprisoned and executed them under trumped charges, such as spying for Israel and warring against Islam.
They siezed and destroyed cemeteries wehre Baha'is were buried and centers where Baha'is met, and bulldozes a Baha'i shrine in Shiraz.
They siezed all Baha'i community funds.
They have prevented Baha'is from entering public schools or universities and, when Baha'is set up their own schools, they forcibly shut them and prosecuted those who organized them.
They have banned Baha'is from serving in any government job or govt.-owened enterprise, which at this point, is most of the economy.

In short, they have engaged in an ongoing campaign to marginalize or destroy the community through government-led persecution, economic isolation, denial of educaton, and constant social pressure to leave their religion.

questions and answers speak to issues that many Americans are not aware of. And thus many conclude that Iran poses
a huge threat, and tends not to question U.S. foreign policy imo.

snip* Unlike Iran's Jewish, Christian, and Zoroastrian communities, which are accorded constitutional protection, the Iranian government does not recognize the Baha'i Faith and considers its adherents to be apostates from Shi'a Islam. Since the Islamic revolution in 1979, the Iranian government has put in effect various discriminatory policies against the Baha'is, including limiting access to education and employment.
Since October 2009, authorities have detained at least 47 Baha'is in Tehran, Mashhad, Sari, Semnan, and Yazd, according to the United Nations office of the Baha'i International Community (BIC) in Geneva. In May 2008, the government arrested seven leaders of the Baha'i community in Tehran, who have been held in detention since then. Their trial began on January 12, but has been postponed to April 10.

http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2010/02/23/iran-end-persecution-baha

At one point in time David Crosby of Crosby, Stills & Nash was the music director for their main church here in America. I know all about them. I can tell you that the Baha'is in Iran are violating the tenets of the religion. They are required to obey the law of the land. The old when in Rome....... But I have asked several different people of the Baha'i faith this question. If you are in a country that outlaws the Baha'i faith. What do you do? They've all told me the same thing. "We must obey the law of the land. We are not Baha'i until we cross over their boarder."

That's basically what Iran has done. They have outlawed the Baha'i faith. Those peopel could be spared all that misery by simply adhearing to the tenets of the faith. You obey the law of the land or leave it. It is neither our place nor their place to question the wisdom of Baha u llah in this.

They removed the children because they were being sexually abused! The FLDS's LEADER is in jail because he is a sick pedophile!

Here in the US. Our federal government has no age of consent. We have federal laws against abusing children. But there is no age attached to any of those laws.

All that meant was that Zoroastrianism was the emperors religion. After Cyrus freed the Jews from the Babylonian Captivity they Proclaimed Cyrus to be their Messiah even though he was a Gentile.

:sarcasm:

denied the holocaust?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4527142.stm

But to suggest Iran is a haven for Jews or that Ahmadinejad is a philo-semite is not supported by the evidence.

I am not sure what the website was going for honestly.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

on reality as opposed to blind hatred for a country of millions....

strange...
indeed.....

The answer to the above-posed question is fairly obvious:

Iran must be punished for leaving the orbit of U.S. control. Since the Islamic Revolution in 1979, when the Shah was removed, Iran, unlike, say, Saudi Arabia, acts independently and thus compromises U.S. power in two ways: i) Defiance of U.S. dictates affects the U.S.'s attainment of goals linked to Iran; and, ii)

Defiance of U.S. dictates establishes a “bad” example for other countries that may wish to pursue an independent course. The Shah could commit any number of abuses—widespread torture, for example—yet his loyalty to the U.S. exempted him from American condemnation—yet not from the condemnation of the bulk of Iranians who brought him down.

However people are getting the notion Iran is a haven for Jews and that Ahmadinejad is a latter day philo-semite.

Both in the Qs and As and the replies from DU.

I agree that Iran is not a country that The United States needs to attack, but it's leadership is .
I believe if the Right Wing comes into power again, they will push for attacking Iran with as much proof as they had for attacking Iraq.
IMO fundamentalism, Islamic or Christian or Animistic are EVIL.

Some dick-wads get in power and twist truths and minds, and females are to be controlled.

Do the words Iran and Contra ring a bell?

Don

If I understand your point, you are saying that countries routinely do what they consider to be in their best interest, regardless of the morality of it. The US armed Iraq and Iran while Iran arms Hamas and Hezbollah. I agree that both countries have done bad things - that was your point, right?

larger issue in the question.

Maybe ask the families of the civilians we shot from the air during that period...

If one wants to start throwing stones, at least know the larger issues.

that doesn't change the fact that Iran arms Hezbollah and Hamas to further their ambitions in the ME - they do it for their own reasons and not purely as a response to past US actions. Their ambition has always been a Shia arc that encompasses Iran, Iraq and Lebanon - besides Hezbollah and Hamas, look no further then their military and political support for Muqtada al-Sadr and his Mahdi army for their willingness to interfere in other countries.

War, conflict and political intrigue have been part of the ME forever (just like the rest of the world). It is you that don't understand the larger historical issue by boiling the issue down to simply "America is evil.".

that the US is evil. There are those, however, who wish to focus attention and relatively minor issues and miss the big picture.

Iran has involved itself in the I/P conflict for its own reasons, leading to further death and destruction.
GB, France, US have involved themselves in the same conflict leading to further death and destruction.

If you wish to start counting bodies, the piles from the "Western" countries involvement (mainly the US) is exponentially higher.

And yet, there are those that harp on Iran's interference, adding it to the litany of why Iran is evil.

I research and teach this material for a living, Sparky. Let's not go there about historical issues.

is more powerful weapons - not more evil intentions. How big would you think the Iranian body pile will be if they have nuclear weapons? There are and have been many leaders willing to kill millions to further their aims - fortunately most didn't have the means. It behooves one to look at weak countries like Iran and ask what evil they are capable of given the proper means. That is the issue - a fundamentalist theocracy with a known willingness to support terrorism. I personally think that nukes in their hands is a bad thing.

nuclear issues to the I/P conflict? Changing the subject in the discussion does not help the overall discourse.

Now, if one wants to discuss nuclear issues...that's another story in which Iran, again, is being depicted as the villain by those who already conduct their own terrorist activities.

"fundamentalist theocracy" is some useless term overused in the discussion of Iran when it comes to foreign policy; domestic policy is another matter.

Go back to quiz and read the answers. They will unequivocally show that making Iran the Nuclear boogeyman is an exercise in futility that does nothing but to perpetuate problems in the region.

I'm sort of giving myself partial credit for some of my answers (guessed that the percentage of women enrolling in Iranian universities was 50% not 60%.)

:eyes:

Many Jews have fled Iran. It was not long ago where some Jews were put on trial for spying on behalf of Israel!

Also, the fact there have not been any Iranian suicide bombers proves what? Did you forget that Hezbollah blew up the Marine barracks in Lebanon? Or that Iran supplies Hezbollah with missiles?

Yes I am sure this has all been a misunderstanding!!! :eyes: