We can kill them but they can't kill us?

Is that what some believe? So long as we are sending drones that kill innocent people, or even guilty people, we are not safe in our cities. Get used to it. When we kill them, they will try to kill us. We are not safe in Times Square or any other city in America. Violence begets violence. Let us not act surprised that people are trying to blow up Americans. Americans are blowing up other people around the world. We are all targets because of the actions of our government.

They think that because we are America, we are allowed to do whatever the fuck we want.

Sorry -- doesn't work that way.

if we start giving out free amsterdam redlight top quality trim with free viagra, people will still want to kill us for being American.

attacked even in apparent retaliation. It's almost like we can kill with impunity at any time any where in the world for any reason, but are shocked, shocked I'm telling you, if the aggrieved should take umbrage and retaliate in any manner. It's like the rest of the world is expected to accept any collateral damage inflicted without a whimper or complaint. :shrug:

Edited to add final sentence.

Its going to be tough for the US to claim moral highground on this one. Tough for anyone...

this stems from religious whacks and money. Something the world has killed over since time started.

We could air drop bikini models and coke and they would still want to kill us.

These guys could always surrender at the nearest embassy for a trial.

Actually be that leading light of freedom and humanity that all the patriot hoo-haa likes to say we are.

But no, we've been assholes for nigh over fifty-five years ago, trying to steal people's shit, extend Manifest Destiny to anywhere in the world, especially if that place has natural resources, especially oil.

You know, it isn't about bikini models and Coke, it's about what we have and haven't done. We got the mujahideen to fight our proxy war against Russia, then left them high and dry, didn't even give them a million to rebuild their school system. Pissed a lot of people off, including bin Laden. Gee, just a few million for rebuilding and 911 wouldn't have happened.

But apparently we're pretty piss poor at learning our lesson, or frankly our leaders don't care. Because we're still fighting two illegal, immoral wars, wasting billions of dollars killing innocents for no good reason. Pissing a lot of people off.

If you want peace in this world, then you act like it. You don't raid countries for decades, drive their economies into bankruptcy so the corporatocracy can make obscene amounts of profit. You don't kill their people to feed the MIC. Instead you help people, countries, live up to those ideals that we're all taught, show people what the best of America is about.

That's how you avoid attacks on your country, oh, and it's cheaper too.

charlie wilson's war is interesting but the policy there up to now has been closer to that in a " a bright and shining lie". Bad strategy on the ground. Attacks will happen, poland was really nice to germany, right up til they got squashed.

People are always pissed off, billions will always be pissed away. The trick is doing it in a way that serves US interest.

bin laden was pissed about the us presence in his theocratic homeland.

had dick to do with the soviets or the us.

Or bringing up Charlie Wilson, but the fact of the matter is that we didn't do dick to rebuild Afghanistan after they got done with Russia. This pissed off a lot of people, and voila, here they are attacking us.

Yes, people will be pissed off, there is always the irrational. However if we actually decent global citizens we could minimize that anger towards us, and thus the violence. You don't think that the world isn't savvy to what we're doing in Afghanistan or Iraq, Ecuador or Venezuela? Our march for empire is pissing off a lot of people, and like with any empire, sooner or later those people are going to retaliate. Thus, perhaps, we shouldn't strive for empire, at least not conventional empire.

And frankly, if you think the real reason bin Laden came after us was the US in Saudi Arabia, you really have a lot to learn about real politik, Islamic style.

Of course that really doesn't matter anymore since bin Laden is dead. So why are we still in Afghanistan? Oh, yeah, empire.

binladen bitches on tape about americans in the wahabbist holy land near mecca and medina. Plus he is an extremist poon, not representative of all islam. 9/11 did not happen because we did not build schools for little children after the soviets left.

What are we doing in Venezuela exactly. Last time I was there (last November) it was the same as it was 5 years before. No americans, lots of poor people.

Define empire, should we just remove troops from everywhere and act like we did after ww1?

A deal was struck a couple of years ago, led by an American consortium of oil companies to build the pipeline. This is part of the great game of empire we've been playing for over fifty five years. You don't think this goes on, well I suggest that you start educating yourself. The book Confessions of an Economic Hit Man would be a good place to start

Venezuela got lucky, the Bush administration tried to overthrow Chavez in 2002 and failed, then got caught up in Iraq and Afghanistan. We're still caught up in those conflicts, so Chavez will have to wait his turn.

Empire doesn't, at least a lot of the time, have anything to do with troops. It has everything to do with economic hegemony across the world. It has to do with having countries like Iraq and Iran, Saudi Arabia and Ecuador so beholden to us through massive debt that they have no other option than defaulting, which means we get to go in and take our pound of flesh, lucrative energy contracts, more building contracts, etc. etc. Making money for our fine friends in corporate boardrooms. Again, this is common knowledge, research your history of the countries that I just mentioned.

Bin Laden actually did mention the fact that much of his anger, and the anger of his followers, derived from our lack of giving Afghanistan humanitarian aid after the Afghan war. That, combined with the fact that we had indeed been pushing for a trans Afghan pipeline since the '90's probably had much more to do with 911 than our presence in Saudi Arabia. Like so many other leaders, bin Laden likes to obscure his motives. We obscure our motives concerning empire behind the veneer of spreading freedom and democracy, the bin Ladens of the world hide it behind religious motivations.

Actually removing our troops from a lot of places would actually be a good thing. I recognize that we have a few legit reasons for stationing our troops overseas, but the largest reason for having such extensive foreign troop placement is simply that of empire. If you think this is some sort of whacko conspiracy theory, well, you really don't know what is going on. There have been several good books, along with a raft of scholarly articles on this.

So wake up, educate yourself, read some, receive enlightenment. We are playing the game of global empire, and it is a game that will eventually destroy us. It is a game we need to halt if we want to save ourselves.

and they will still be motivated to kill us. Just the way it is. Some folks do need their ticket punched.

they wouldn't be interested in bombing us... But that would require us letting go completely, including ignoring the Israel/Palestine conflict.

I mean the muslim brotherhood hates the egyptian government. SO pretty much anyone we fund has someone willing to kill because they dont like the government.

If binladen landed in saudi they would chop off his head for his position on the government there.

If you are President lay it out what are you going to do?

It is destroying us financially and morally. It's been ten years. It's time to come home. Immediately.

both controlled by Democrats to happen. It does not seem to be in the current best interest of the US to do that now.

if he wants. Congress has no say in it.

Just what is in the best interest of the US??

The bush logic in this war is useless. Mowing the grass is pointless. However any person anywhere (other than in the US) planning, funding, or carrying attacks against Americans is a military target.

Killing the people who fund this and make it happen is in the US interests. Dropping 105mm on goat herders is pointless.

That said, we don't know who is paying who.

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

End the empire. Split it up in reasonable sizes & cultures. Why is everyone still pretending its one big happy family?

The less collective resources and might, the less harm and destruction concentrated greed and inhumanity can bring to a single region at a time...maybe

chanting USA USA

But we will always be able to kill more of them. Kaboom!

should murderers be arrested or set free or in the case of DU applauded if they are not Americans but are killing Americans

Frankly, I was personally a tad desensitized by then


I'm sure people are aghast at my heresy. The first one to send $5 bucks gets a shiny first edition signed stone to throw at my head.

We have killed more than 3000 people since Sept 11th, 2001. Does 1 million brown people equal 3000 Americans? Yes, I've noticed a lot of people have died since 9/11 also.

that would be a lesson learned from other similar wars.

Are we getting anywhere yet?

so yea, we got somewhere. You aware there is a hot war in the congo, no. Thats because those 6 million people dont count. They are at the mercy of a failed state.

There are many examples of where this worked in the past to serve us interest. Killing the right people and putting the people we want in office. Those are generally quiet events, the failures make news.

:rofl:

(yet I don't see anyone advocating just that seriously)


BTW, thanks. I didn't know Id be raped if we didn't do drone strikes. Freedom isn't free. Bombs away!

having a first world powerful government that serves its interest is a nice thing. Stuff like the marshall plan, post war activity in greece, etc served us interest.

relative to those in power.

And even if the "liberal" party is in power, its a whole other party with a whole other set of interests than the one that engaged in those post-war activities you so fondly remember. FDR/Truman's party...well...RIP.

But hell, maybe you are right. Maybe after bombing the fuck out of little children and killing civilians, the US will benevolently create a state that it can trade with and help get everyone richer. That'd be wonderful.

How do you think Oregon became a state?

Assuming that it was Al Qaeda, or someone inspired by them, they would attack us regardless. Have you ever read any of their crazy demands? These guys are religious nuts, plain and simple. Here is the truce they offered us:

1. Completely leave and cut off contact with all Muslim nations (including allies).
2. End support for Israel.
3. Release all Muslim prisoners.

If we do that, they will grant us a truce for ten years. After ten years, they will impose a tax upon us. If we refuse to pay their tax, then they will fight us again.

Sounds reasonable to me! :eyes: :sarcasm:

"We can kill them but they can't kill us?"

....yep, sounds about right to me....remember, we're Americans!

There will always be crazies on all sides, right-wingers, Islamists, etc. Wars don't stop them.

Governments simply need to band together to stop them like they try to stop other types of criminals.

It used to be that (theoretically) you needed a motive in order to move from point A to point B.

But in the intellectually lazy world in which we live today, all that's necessary (it sometimes seems) to end up a target is to be brown, muslim and from the wrong neighborhood. Assigning motive post-facto is S.O.P.

(And obviously, we are all glad that progress is being made on catching people who would commit harm.)

You also can't ask questions on certain subjects or you are you are against civil rights for all. Repubs are doing their best this morning to hype it up. You are correct in your assessment of the situation..

I know of people who absolutely have refused to look at pictures that I had printed out of foreign people being tortured and or killed, even raped, there was some god awful pictures once all over the net all proven accurate...when I attempted to force them to look I was attacked with words how I did not understand war period, you know the usual... most of those I attempted to show pictures to were church goers by the way and honestly refused to look, heavily into promoting christianity you know the type, back around "07" when I began to get attempt an understanding and knowledge of politics and issues world wide, I guess I thought if my eyes had been opened others would be too..I was wrong.

Those barbarians, their wives and children deserve to die. :sarcasm:

ramp up the use of predator drones.