A bailout for Greece. Who's next, Spain or Portugal?

Countries with capitalist economies are "too big to fail". In six months, even China could be in trouble. Could the IMF bail them out? Would you be willing to sacrifice to bail out these countries, like you did with the big banks that were too big to fail?

The Euro is dropping like a rock, in comparison to the dollar. What impact will this have on the European Union?

We keep being reminded that we are in a global economy. The capitalists have managed to involve us all in their money-making adventures. Where does it end? And what happens next?

:hide:

People with money are mostly good also, just like poor and middle class people.

If it becomes a fight for money, then you join their side.

It is a fight to think and feel, with the best ideas you can find to help you decide as an individual what are the best ways.

Sometimes that does include moving of resources like money, but it is not about the money, but about the better effects of justice and kindness some of those things can create.

Going after the head of the snake is going after the ideas in any of us that think in terms of the worse ways, those include hate and greed and many other things that keep people from being able to be peaceful.

It is not going after only money, because then you join them, but pointing out how that consolidation can create problems, it is not a pursuit of money, but one of justice and moderation in all things.



Some even think the grace of God can be bought, and treat love as a form of money, in metaphor it is sort of like that, but not purchased by a persons action, but given by God, who has endless love, and hence why it is not like money, because it has no limits, and can not be thought of as some can have it and some others can not.


But anyway, if you are just after money for yourself, you join those you fight, if you are thinking in terms of a more just and moderate world where many people think and feel, then I think you are thinking of it differently.

Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece, Great Britain and Spain.

Who is next? I wish that nobody was next.

I would really be happy if we weren't living in such interesting times.

Hoo boy. :scared:

Hello,

Please help me to understand the hand wringing in Germany about German taxpayer money being used to bail out Greece.

On the First German TV Program (ZDF) last night it was announced that money for the Greek bail out will come from the KWA (Kreditanstalt fuer Wiederaufbau) which is another name for the Marshal Plan money given to Germany after 1945. The KWA provided mortgages to German citizens, which were paid pack into the fund. This repaid Marshal Plan money was reinvested by the KWA, accumulated interest over 60 years and has increased in value. I am not sure how much is in the fund, but would like to know. Certainly enough to bail out Greece.

I am told that Germany never paid back in full, the Marshal Plan money that we loaned, only Britain was proud enough to pay back the loan. As I understand it, partial payment was made as an exchange for US military purposes such as housing, etc. The money to bail out Greece is technically American funds loaned to Germany. This is not yet costing the German taxpayer one cent, or am I mistaken here?

What is to prevent Greece, when it comes time to pay back KWA (Marshal Fund) loans, to say "well you never paid it back so why should we, and by the way, during the war Germans absconded with our national gold reserves (mentioned by a Greek minister last month)"?? And why hasn't the NY Times covered this aspect?

Would appreciate comments, clarification and corrections. Thanks!

Cheers,

Walter

Walter,

I thought that Germany paid back at least part of the Marshall Plan money. Some of it indirectly. For example, all Embassy property in Bonn was originally built by the German government for the US Army (then the American military government) in the 1950s. It, like all other German-funded construction for the occupation forces, remained German property but could be used by the occupiers free of charge as long as they needed it. The US Army and Air Force is still using thousands of family housing units under that arrangement. Much of it has been returned without compensation – except that the Germans paid us for improvements to these buildings. Now, that was a good deal for Germany. It gave a huge boost to the German construction industry and many of the big names today got their start that way.

The former High Commissioner facilities in Bonn were later turned over to the State Department. That’s why Bonn was the only place in the world where the American Embassy owned a shopping center, a church, and a school. At some time, I believe it was in the 1970s, Germany was supposed to repay Marshall Plan moneys. Somebody had the brilliant idea of transferring title to the facilities in Bonn to the State Department rather than transferring large sums of money to the USA. Money to build these facilities had already been spent so there was no burden on Germany’s foreign trade balance. I don’t know whether HICOG housing area in Frankfurt was included in that deal and whether the transfer of title repaid the entire loan. But Don Jordan is not correct when he says that Germany paid back nothing.

Of course it was a good deal for Germany because the KFW was able to keep its money but also a good deal for the USA. The State Department traded some of the Bonn housing for housing in Berlin and sold the rest to be used for construction in Berlin.

Concerning Greece, if they are not careful, Germany and others will end up supporting Greek’s largess towards their own people and their corruption indefinitely. Greece has been cheating ever since they joined the EU and more so after they signed up to the EURO. They had to lie even to qualify. Would you expect Greece to clean up its act without intense EU controls? Even if the government wants to come clean, their people won’t let them.

Cheers,

Reinhard

I read last week, (I think it was in Common Concerns, not sure) that the US is in the same situation as Greece. Only in much dire straits due to size. The Guardian had a piece on how if the dominoes tumble with the PIGS countries, Britain would also take a fall.

Looks like we're in the interesting times.