Freeper heads EXPLODE over Hawaiian Governor's assertion of Honolulu as Obama's birthplace

The Freeper thread:



The comments:

Fucking morons.

:rofl:

I mean Barack Obama was born there.

The president's father that is.

and the sign isn't even in Kenya.

But I still find the humor that it is technically (in reference to his father) correct.

Now, if it said "President" on it (they would NEVER put that on the photoshopped sign) it would be quite false.

being perpetrated on the Birthers by the guy who photoshopped it.

Birthers are so easy to make the butt of jokes.

:evilgrin:

Even Kenyans think birthers are funny, and some have figured out how easily they can be punked.

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

I think states keep them after a certain time period.

Since the island of Oahu is also the City and County of Honolulu.

In Hawaii the state does keep control of most public records, births, deaths, marriages, divorces, etc.


Because of its small size it would be ineffective cost wise to keep double records. So the state controls some while the City and County of Honolulu will control others.

Genealogists know it is complicated, especially for older records. These days most state have the information stored at a central Vital Records, but for some it is not that simple. New York City, for instance, keeps their records separately from the rest of New York State.

The CDC has a page "Where to Write for Vital Records" http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/w2w.htm with links for each state.

But the hospital would have a record of the birth. At least it did in my case, and I was born at Kapiolani Hospital in 1959.

Did your parents get one of the "photostat" birth certificates from the hospital or back from the State? If so, what other fields does it contain that are not shown on the posted Obama BC?

I have not questioned where Obama was born, though I have quite a number of questions about other aspects of his life story (see post in this thread about Seattle). While I think it most-likely that Obama and his campaign preferred the benefits of having the RW discredited by carrying on about his BC rather than other issues, I am curious what such a form might have contained.

I know that things could have changed between when you were born and when Obama was born, but probably would have at least been roughly the same.

If is strange that Ann packed up little Barack and moved to Seattle almost immediately after his birth. She was going by the name Anna Obama, indicating the marriage. I can only speculate about possible dynamics between Ann/Anna, Barack Sr., and her parents. When did she learn that Barack Sr. was already married with two children? Was it between the wedding and the birth? Probably will never know, since those who knew are now dead.

:eyes:

Ann Dunham Obama apparently moved to Seattle with Barack as soon as she could travel with him. Nothing nefarious about that, but it does seem a bit strange, particularly for 1961. It also contradicts the standard version of that time; this would not be important except that the capsule version of Obama's parents (from Kansas and Kenya, students in Hawaii where they fell in love, ...) was so widely used during the campaign itself, forming the cornerstone for Obama's own life story.

I could speculate about what could have sent Ann Obama almost fleeing with her baby to Seattle, her home town. Raising a child alone while enrolled at the University would be a daunting task for anyone today, nearly unheard of in 1961.

about the reasons for Ann to go to Seattle? Why would you call it "fleeing?" And, for your information, women have raised their children alone since the beginning of time. They've even *gasp* MOVED with their newborns to different locations. In 1961 it wasn't as if she had to get in a canoe and row to Seattle. She got on a plane in Hawaii and got off that plane in Seattle. Pretty simple.

From what I understand she went to school in Seattle. I went back to school after I had TWO babies and I worked at the same time. Sure it was hard. But parents do whatever it takes to put themselves in a position to provide for their children.

I said "almost fleeing", not simply "fleeing". Maybe should have said "seeming to flee" which would indicate that her actions gave that appearance to me.

I have been trying to avoid posting any "conclusions" in this thread, only specific facts that can be verified elsewhere. "Almost fleeing" probably reflects my suspicions and is not diectly known from the facts in evidence.

I learned about most of these facts back early in the campaign while still an Edwards supporter. When it became likely that Obama would be our nominee, I self-censored a bunch of things while fearing that they would be used during the general election. I shared some of what I found with a few respected members (then and now) of the DU community back then, and we all left things dormant from then on.

I have not looked to see if there is some version of the birther story which uses the facts about Obama in Seattle in some way. Probably is one now that these facts have made it into the wikis. I never saw any birther connections with this point (Seattle) when I did my research in early 2008. I noted the story about his babysitter which came out just before Obama took office.

I don't think that their living in Seattle is anything more than a curious footnote. The more organized the efforts to discredit or quash these facts, the more-curious and possibly more-important it starts to seem to me.

more-important it starts to seem to me."

Why do you think anyone is trying to "discredit or quash" anything? And what evidence do YOU have that there is an "organized" effort to do so?

You know, the more you look at those shadows from the lander module...

This story is a dead end and the idiot birthers just look more and more idiotic as they attempt to discredit even the Republican Gov of Hawii. Chasing one's tail comes to mind.

She had enrolled in school well prior to then.

That's not something one does on a moment's notice, btw.

Each of them was a trailblazer, feminists before the word took on that meaning. There were few women VPs at any bank in 1960, even fewer who made it as Senior VP. Each of them is impressive on many levels. It is unfortunate that they have often been relegated to supporting roles with the focus being on the men, especially on Barack Sr.

That was even true during the 2008 campaign, although somewhat more attention was paid to his mother and grandmother then than previously.

but just that you *haven't* questioned where he was born.

At first I wondered why he didn't just allow the release the hospital records or the photostat of the original. I fairly quickly concluded that letting the birthers stew about the BC was working like a classic disruptor/disinformation campaign would have, so why do anything further that would cause it to nearly stop being an issue. Better to let the far RW make itself look even crazier still, discrediting anything they touched in the eyes of independents and more moderate Repubs.

So I never questioned where Obama was born.

Why the fuck do you care? And there you are speculating again, without saying what your speculations are. You insinuate much but say nothing at all.

:hi:

I had been hoping he didn't notice that latte stain. And dammit, cruise missle dust is just SO hard to get rid of. Especially when I'm in the middle of trying to quash information about Obama's mother going to college in SEATTLE!!!!! OMG. That's almost CANADA!!11111!

Who asks. So the hospital where Obama was born likely has his records, but isn't going to show them to some birth who has no legal reason to see them.

How many DUers know that Obama and his mother did not remain in Hawaii following his birth? That his father apparently never lived with them since they did not return to Hawaii until after he had left there for Harvard?

Ann Dunham Obama and newborn Barack were living in an apartment in Seattle within a few weeks of his birth and lived there through the following spring. She was a student at University of Washington during this period.

I knew this by January 2008 and posted alluding to this and various other issues with his life story, but did not want to hightlight those discrepancies and thus provide anything the RW could use against him in the general election. I shared more details privately with a few DUers, but mostly let it go.

I mentioned this recently in a post and got accused of posting birther items. After replying in my defense, I checked the Wiki on Ann Dunham to see if any of this was now included and discovered that her Wiki documents Ann and infant Barack living in Seattle his first year. Several of its references were ones I had seen over two years ago.

I don't know what to make of this or why it has been barely reported. It does contradict the story of his life as described in his own books, and it could expose some of the unflattering side of his father's life -- the abusive, violent, alcoholic, womanizer, gambler, etc.

Any thoughts?

You might want to read Dreams of my Father. Barack Obama barely knew the man. This affected him throughout his life.

Dreams gets really fuzzy and confusing in a lot of places. I don't have a copy handy at the moment to check, but I don't remember Seattle getting much mention in that book, even in regard to Ann Dunham living in that area for junior high and high school, much less her attending the University of Washington while a single mom.

I believe that Dreams and other tellings of Obama's early life imply that his father left them after several years to go to Harvard, with even the dates on that part being vague. Sort of like that phantom Harvard Phd. (Masters only). I will recheck exactly what it says in Dreams when I get a chance.

No question that his father abandoned him.

My bullshit meter is screaming.

Each of us continuously revises our life story, reinterpreting the narratives, minimizing our shortcomings, showing ourselves and our families in a positive light, including family oral history as truth when some could be "white lies", and limited by our own faulty memory. This is our internal version; when we retell it to a particular audience, we further edit it to each situation.

Dreams is a particularly well and carefully crafted life story in the "log cabin" genre. Probably the best I have seen. All such political biographical stories tend towards fiction, even Lincoln's. I think of this as the "Liberty Valence" effect.

But Dreams, like other versions of Obama's life story, seems overly flexible with timelines and events, sometimes to the point of being impossible. For example, his father was not one of the students brought to the US from Africa by the Kennedys; he was brought to Hawaii by a different group well before the Kenndys got involved.

I suspect that Obama and many of the Kennedys and their associates believed this to be true, some might still. The extended form of this, used by Obama in his speechs to tie in with the civil rights marchs, completely jumbles the dates of well-known events in attempting to cast those civil rights protests as "leading" to his father being brought to America and to his very existence. Nice story, but not possible -- Obama was born before the events that supposedly brought his father to Hawaii! In this latter case, there is no way that Obama could believe that the story be true. This "connection" was important early in the campaign in portraying Obama as the "heir to Camelot" and such.


I don't believe that Obama living in Seattle his first year has much import, except in disrupting the simplified narrative of his life story and of his family that was crucial in introducing him to the voters. I mostly find these details interesting because, while reported two years ago, they were not generally known and still are not. Even now, anyone who brings up any of this is quickly labeled a birther or worse, the threads unreced, and alerts raised. Why?

Has it ever dawned on you that nobody can give a first hand account of where they were as an infant?

Or are you really that dense?

I don't traffic with Birthers. They are impossible to convince of anything and anything that disagrees with their preconceived notions is automatically dismissed.

Have a good life and I hope you wake up to reality at some point.

Click.

I guess Seattle is supposed to scare us for some reason, although I can't for the life of me figure out why. But the "impossible timelines" BS was what made the whole point very, very obvious.

:spray:

"Factually a mess. Impossible tijmelines..."

Having recently read it myself, specifically which factual messes and impossible timelines are you referring to...?

I will post a few more examples when I get a chance.

BTW The Wiki for Obama Sr. has several references (WashPost, et al) that explain several of the timeline problems with Dreams.

The Wiki for Ann Dunham has enough references regarding Ann Obama moving to Seattle with infant Barack.

I was referring to specific instances rather than vague allegations. My apologies if I was not clear on that point.

While I looked at all this fairly closely 2-3 years ago, I haven't thought much about it lately (until yesterday and today). (I am in NC and still up.)

I will have limited access to DU until late Sunday, and almost no time to post anything until then. I will post when I can and will send you a PM, too.

OK, now we're getting into full on bizarro.

Obama's mother, Ann Dunham, earned a PhD from the University of Hawaii. His father left Hawaii for Harvard to pursue a a PhD in economics, but according to Harvard he only earned a Masters degree before returning to Kenya. Reference in his Wiki to substantiating documents from Harvard.

I referred back to what had happened in an earlier thread when I mentioned about Seattle in following up something related.

That first post (#6) should not have be that controversial, given that the facts are readily sourced. When I was challenged by others, I responded some of the well-documented items I have in my research.

While some of that research was from early in the election cycle (2007-early 2008), it is a small part of a larger study on information transfer, news, trusts, reliable sources, etc. in the Internet/Web world of today's political discourse. How do stories become a major story, how are the kept bottled up in the corner (e.g. Sibel Edmonds) or overseas only, how much should we trust online archives of news stories, etc.

My initial point was only that sometimes DUer heads explode, too.

I'm asking why your post describes it as a "Phantam Ph.D."--as if there is something mysteriously nefarious about having a father begin a Ph.D. program that he never finishes.

You could populate a large state with people who started on Ph.D. programs and left with a masters. I'm not sure why that makes it "phantom." It just means you completed enough coursework/field work to get a master's, but never wrote your dissertation.

that he "could" speculate about it. And saying there's an "organized" effort to "quash" the information about their time in Seattle, which makes him think it's "important."

When something is lacking in substance in reality, then it qualifies as a phantom item.

Until fairly recently, almost every mention of Obama Sr. repeated without question that he had a PhD from Harvard. Finally someone noticed in the Harvard alumni directory that his PhD was missing, then Harvard confirmed that he had earned a Masters (AM) and no other degree. It doesn't appear that he was at Harvard long enough to made it to the ABD morass, but graduate degree programs vary widely over time and between universities so that might have been the case.

Many programs required that PhD candidates complete a masters as the first stage towards their doctorate. Others use the Masters as the "fallback" for those not completing their disertations.

BTW While Obama's father is routinely described in error as having a PhD, there is rarely any mention that his mother did have a PhD.

Barack was a month old at the time and doesn't remember it.

I agree that Obama would have almost no memory of Seattle that first year, and that would readily explain it not being included. His mother helped edit Dreams and would certainly have known what really happened. Interestingly, there is almost no mention of her growing up mostly in and around Seattle, either.

They were his "Dreams", they just aren't always factually accurate. To treat Dreams that way seems a bit like doing the same for the KJV of the Bible.

I certainly don't. The story's about him and his father's absence in his life. His location in the first few months of his life seems irrelevant. I think you're reading too much into this.

People DO move, ya know... and couples do split up and get back together over and over again. What is your point? :eyes:

no, not THAT one, the OTHER one!!!1111


I wonder what the point is also.

And now our mother is dead and can't explain herself! OH NOES!!!11!!!

My daughter (born on O'ahu well after statehood) has lost her birth cert twice in her adult life. The latest version doesn't look PRECISELY the same as the one given to me when she was born. OMG! WHAT CAN THIS MEAN? :tinfoilhat:

OMG! OMG! OMG! The whole damn family could be terrorists! We can't prove we're NOT! :tinfoilhat:

When in danger or in doubt,
run in circles,
scream and shout.
Ack! ack! ack!
:yoiks: :yoiks: :yoiks: :yoiks: :yoiks: :yoiks: :yoiks: :yoiks:

Hekate

I discuss above that "almost fleeing" inserted my opinion of how her behavior looked to me. Leaving her husband and her parents behind in order to enroll in a different school (admittedly her original choice) looks like she could be fleeing something, but this is just my take on it.

Since I have already caught it about "speculate", seems little reason to hold back now.

That's in like Russia or somethign!

:rofl:

Putin better not rear his head above Seattle because i am watching :scared:

I think the world is going to end because Ann moved to SEATTLE!!!!!!! :scared:

When and whether he lived in Seattle?

What does that have to do with anything, especially the birther nonsense?

Do birthers now claim Washington State is not part of the US? Or that anyone who lived there at any point in his/her childhood is not a US citizen?

and gave birth to Barack, then came back to the U.S.

It's all some super secret plot involving Frank Marshall Davis, Malcolm X, and the international Communist conspiracy.

memes floated that I can't keep track anymore.

Birther 4.2 is adopting the viewpoint of an 18th century Swiss philosopher who wrote in Frnech as the be all end all defining phrasology within the United States Constitution. Apparently, this Swiss philosopher defined "Natural Born Citizen" as people born on a nation's soil of parents who are citizens. Sadly for Birther 4.2, Emerich De Vattel's Law of Nations never had the phrase who wrote in French trnaslated to "Natural Born Citizen" until 1797, a decade after those words were put down in the constitution.

Oddly enough, these people are the same people who said John Kerry was "too French in 2004.

Thank you. I needed that. :hug:

My post was so far separated from the one that prompted it that I think the point was lost.

What I'm scratching my (non-exploding) head about is one poster's attempt to paint something bizarre and troubling over the fact that Obama's mother moved to Seattle when he was a baby. And--ZOMG--his father never finished his Ph.D.

There's a serious disconnect here--we keep asking what the point is, and we're told our heads are exploding because we can't handle this news.

I wish someone could get him/her to explain why anyone should be all in a tizzy over Ann Dunham's move to Seattle, or about Barack Sr.'s graduate school career.

??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

That was what my original post (6) in this thread was about. Any mention of details of almost any sort regarding Obama is quickly met by certain very protective DUers, some willing to distort and reframe the discussions to discredit the posters and to send discussions off in a different direction.

This thread is fairly good example of all that happening and leaving most everyone else either confused or certain that someone (me, for example) is really a birther, FREEP, teabagger,... and deserves a pizza! Usually, I find it too much effort to get involved in such things threads, but this time I did it by accident and decided I would try to respond to as much as I could. Did not imagine it would get this much attention.

I regret that I did not put the question about the hospital records in a private message rather than a public post. I was curious what was in the hospital birth records, nothing more, not agenda, just wanted to know.

Obama living in Seattle seems relatively insignificant to me. Sure, he lived around the corner from Bruce Lee and Jimi Hendrix that year, a good trivia question. Most families have things that aren't really discussed and are glossed over in some way, this looks like one of those. We already knew that his father was not present after he left for Harvard; now, we know he probably wasn't present, period; but that doesn't make much difference.

It is strange how almost any mention of Seattle wrt Obama or especially his mother gets a lot of attention. I have always attributed this to Kansas appealing to voters more than Washington state, probably the same reason that his mother and grandmother are portrayed in more-traditional roles while downplaying their careers. After this thread, I suppose I should at least consider the possibility that there could be some link to Seattle that is actually important. With that CT, it is obvious I need some sleep.

She had enrolled in school.

Classes generally start at the end of August or early September at most schools.

I doubt Barack Obama has any recollection of where he was at a few weeks old.

ALL that is required for him to be eligible to run for POTUS is that ONE of his parents be a US citizen. That's all -- well, that and being 35 years old.

It doesn't matter if his parents were married or not (and I am sure they were -- Judge King would have helped them tie the knot as he did for other UH students) -- it doesn't matter if his mother was an eager young bride who accomplished in 6 months what takes other women 9 months -- and it certainly doesn't matter if all you personally want to do is call the man a bastard. Go ahead. You don't like his policies or the way he shines his shoes. Call him a bastard. It doesn't make him one by birth and it is not relevant to his eligibility to run for POTUS.

So to what IS relevant: Barack Obama was born in Hawaii, the 50th State of the USA. His mother was born in Kansas, also a State in the Union. If you doubt where he was born, you still have his mother's birthplace making him 100% eligible to run for POTUS.

Get over it.

By the way, have you thought of writing US Representative Neil Abercrombie about this? He actually knew the Obamas when they were all students at UH. It's a small town, as they say.

Hekate

resembling a direct answer. To him, Barack's mother apparently "fled" to Seattle with her newborn, which was "strange." And he imagines that there is some sort of "organized" effort to "quash" that information.

He mentions not wanting to "speculate" about Ann's reasons for "fleeing" to Seattle, but he "could" if he wanted to. :rofl:

The whole "fleeing something" idea is pure speculation, but, ok, let's go along.

She WAS fleeing something.

What?

Barack Senior? Her parents? The humid weather in Hawaii? Bigfoot?

And this makes a difference in anything--how?

:rofl:

I am trying to respond to both valid questions and some more-questionable ones that are more personal. I remember our interactions on other topics as having been civil, and wanted to respond adequately to your post. See below.

EDIT to Add: Your previous post projected a lot of birther beliefs on me which I have never said or implied at DU or any other web site, nor in any other media or forusm, public or private. Clear enough?

I keep saying that as clearly as I can, but a couple of posters continue accusing me of being a birther or worse. I probably contributed to this problem by posting my question about the hospital records rather than doing a private message; I was just curious to know what it contains, in general. I certainly had not expected this level of attention or to be labeled a birther myself. Because that question post is closer to the top than my post #6, I sort of hijacked the thread by accident.

The first discussions I remember involving where any of the candidates was born and whether they met the qualifications for President were not about Obama, but were looking at McCain, Richardson, and maybe one other. I believe that questions were raised about whether McCain had actually been born in Panama proper and not in the Canal Zone, plus detailed reviews of the changes over time to the laws about whether citizen at birth by legislation met the definition of "natural born".

None of these discussions raised any questions about Obama, certainly not with me regarding his citizenship and qualifications for office. There was a side discussion that through his father he had the right at birth to British Overseas and later to Kenyan citizenship, but would have needed to explicitly claim that citizenship while relinquishing his US one. (From memory).

I later realized that the birthers probably got started by an UK article interviewing Obama's (step) grandmother in Kenya which reported her as saying that Obama had been born in Kenya while his parents were visting there. There was apparently some misunderstanding or translation problem during the interview that was not sorted out properly in the article. That was all it took.

Now just so there can be no misunderstanding about my position. I have never entertained even the tiniest thought, possibility, hope, doubt, or anything else that might qualify now or at any time in the past my certitude that Obama, his mother, and her parents are all "natural born citizens of the USA". Any questions?

1. What's the point?
2. Why blame Du'ers for questions or saying their heads are exploding?

Almost any discussion involving these topics is likely to make us behave towards each other and the facts in patterns very similar to those we make fun of at RW sites. A few examples are autism, obesity, I/P, the South, various health and medical topics.

Starting back during the primaries, it became increasingly difficult to question much of the CW involving Obama, his life, his policies, how progressive he might be, etc. because many such threads become attacks on individual DUers and their motives, even when the fact itself seems well sourced and documented, and without bias (other than the liberal one).

My post #6 was trying to say that something as trivial as Obama having lived in Seattle had been enough to trigger this type behavior in a recent thread. Little did I expect that just mentioning Seattle in this thread would generate an even greater reaction. Within minutes, I was being called out as a birther and my motives questioned.

My post about the hospital's birth record to atreides was because I was curious and because the OP showed that being raised by someone at FR and asking someone born at the same hospital seemed appropriate. I could have saved myself some pain and effort if I had asked the question in PM, but I really dislike the idea that we have to be careful what questions we ask or what facts we discuss or what officials we criticize.

I have been politically active since the early 1960's and I resent when a progressive Democratic forum degenerates into intimidation, name calling, personal attacks, and such in any attempt to suppress or disrupt civil discourse and full and complete examination of policies and actions of our government and its leaders. That said, in this thread I regret that I have let myself become part of the problem, the back and for, defending myself on various fronts, but also adding a couple of extra coals on the fire.

BTW when I looked back at the OP and the FR posts, it actually seems relatively restrained to me, but using the OP's example of RW "heads exploding" as a guide then heads are always exploding here at DU.

Who was the publisher?

Personally, I feel it all began during the campaign and people playing on the intentionally generated fear of Muslims and his name and the madrassa stories by political operatives and it took on a life of its own from there on forward.

I mostly concur. With the RW willing to believe almost any Obama CT, and his supporters outraged at the mere suggestion that Obama might be factually in error, it is hard to sort out all the messy, conflicting assertions and facts. The RW is somewhat justified in being a little skeptical of Obama because there are some cases where he clearly tried to finese some issue and certainly misled if not outright lied. All politicians do this type thing, so we need to careful vet all of them. That said, some of the birther claims are really over the top.

While I remembered the article as being UK, the UK articles I have bookedmarked on exactly that interview seem to be rehashes of similar stories in the US, all eventually based on McRae's recorded interview with "grandmother" Sarah where she, at one point, says that Obama was born in Kenya though in another section of the same interview she said he was born in the US. This was in 2007 and seems to be what started it, coupled with just-raised questions about McCains's birth. In my quick look back about this, the earliest uses of the term "birther" was from the Obama campaign but doubt it started there; wonder who coined the term.

Salon summarized most of the birther claims and links to considerably earlier discussions about the interview with grandmother Sarah:

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2009/08/05/birther_faq

It is interesting to look back at the way the UK press described Obama and his family versus how those topics were covered in the US. There was a lot more focus on Kenya because of colonial ties and on his relatives there and the many in the UK.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-431908/A-drunk-bigot--US-Presidental-hopeful-HASNT-said-father-.html


Finally, I noticed this DU thread from May 2008 where I alluded to Obama in Seattle as a trivia question. The entire thread is interesting as a snapshot of DU discussion at that time:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6154620

"No matter where he was born I think he’s hiding something and I don’t think he has the right to hide such things from We The People."

for W to hide such things as cocaine use, alcohol addiction, and that messy incident involving being AWOL from the TANG even after securing a creampuff assignment (i.e. not having to go to Vietnam) on account of his daddy's last name.

In their minds, being a moral degenerate was somehow more acceptable than an accident of birth one had no control over.


Sometimes I can't stand the stupid.

minds is the President "hiding something".

They want something to be horribly awry so they fixate on that theory..it helps them cope with their little existence.

"No one can tell you what hospital he was born in." Of course, this won't shut him up, but it's good to hear.

this is nothing more than a group of people who refuse to admit they are wrong in the face of overwhelming evidence.

It's not to dissimilar than a group of pre-teen play ground yutz' trying to get their way even though it's been proven that Santa still doesn't exist.

And frankly, we should start treating these willfully ignorant morons as such; like they still believe in santa. Aka like the children they are.

Orly's people would just claim it was falsified. Remember, Orly believed the "Kenyan" BC that claimed little Barack was delivered by a box of laundry soap.

"Orly believed the "Kenyan" BC that claimed little Barack was delivered by a box of laundry soap."

:toast: and WELCOME TO DU!

This is one of those "alternate" accounts...I've been jmowreader for years, but I'm on a different computer for a while, and I couldn't remember the jmowreader logon so I created this account. I am hoping it won't get many posts.

dish towels and glasses and maybe even small plates.

Damn. If I had known I could have had a little brother from a box of soap when I was a kid, I would have pestered my mom a whole lot more.


:7

of the soap box? I'm so confused.

Heh. I remember when glasses and towels came out of soap boxes, too. I don't remember plates, though. Specifically I remember towels that were striped - some purple and white and others that were yellow and white. And I remember juice glasses.

We still have some of the towels and plates, but I musta been buying the wrong brand of soap because I never got the brand that came with a free baby in every box.

... in a bunch of soap box tops to the manufacturer. The striped towels were cheap stuff, though.

I did ask for a new baby, but that's when Mom told me about Dad's vasectomy! :rofl:

Hekate

My grandmother had a whole collection. They had roosters on them. Don't know what happened to them all.

"...like that his parents weren't married or something embarrassing."

This comment made me LOL for some reason...

I've never seen a birth certificate that required the parents to provide PROOF that they were married.

Usually it's the dad's full name and place of birth, and the mom's maiden name and place of birth.

Can't tell anything from that.


There's a whole lotta dumb floating around... :7

birth record that's NOT on his birth certificate. :crazy:

I think the little souvenir certificates that hospitals give out have the baby's footprints in purple ink.

Maybe that's the proof they need?

... and all. :eyes:

They. Are. Nuts.

Hekate

I am not sure when Hawaii discontinued the practice, but I do remember a young woman staying with a family across the street got blindsided by that when she gave birth -- would have been about 1959. Her Marine boyfriend dumped her when she got hapai, and his CO said so sorry but she was about #5 with that complaint, so her plan was to have the baby and return to her family on the Mainland with a young widowhood alibi. Like I said, the poor thing was blindsided. :cry: My own mother had a lot to say about the kind of people who would stamp an innocent baby's birth cert "illegitimate."

Don't you get the feeling though, that the Birthers really want to have a "legitimate" reason to call the President a bastard? :eyes:

Hekate

what a bunch of mean bastards!

But how would they actually know the babies were "illegitimate" unless the parents told them...or the parents actually had to show a marriage license or something...

Did the moms have to produce a husband? If that's the case, and had my first daughter been born in one of those states, she would have come perilously close to being labeled "illegitimate" because her dad just barely made it (Navy) for her birth.

... until finally it was ended across the country.

Frankly, it was just one more form of social control on women's sexual behavior, if you ask me.

I was only about 12 and I already was learning that there were few options for a "girl in trouble" -- you could be forced by your family (and social disgrace) to relinquish your firstborn child for adoption or you could keep it and have the whole world know it was a bastard and that you had transgressed. Or (and I didn't really know this until later) you could have a highly dangerous and illegal abortion in an attempt to forestall permanent social disgrace. Contraception was often only dispensed to married women. (When I was in high school the boys gossiped in front of me about P, whom they had witnessed visibly pregnant over the summer. I gave the ones who were my friends the sharp side of my tongue for acting like she did it by herself. But I was a "good girl," you bet, and they all knew it.)

As for how people knew -- well, in small towns everybody knows everything. And everywhere you seek medical help, from the doctor's office to the hospital, they want to know who your emergency contact person is and your marital status, along with who will pay the bills. And when it's time to fill out the birth cert, same thing. You name the father, and in those days NO ONE kept her own name when she got married.

Hekate

and "reality" TV.

Throw in a heaping dose of opinion newz and its non-stop minutia and bullshit on the front burners of the national conscience.

Why does everyone both find interest as well as feel entitled to every minute detail of everyone's life?

What we need is a lot more "nonya bee's wax" in this country.

playbook against them and it works better then anything! All those nervous nannies who shiver in fear at disturbing the great and powerful GOP where proven wrong. Guess that is why they represent winner/losers like Lieberman.

Keep it up. We'll KILL them in November! Pull!!!

Is Worldnet Daily the gospel for these clowns or something?

These idiots might have to boycott Hawaii to teach them a lesson.

Just wondering.

that's the messy part.

I thought it might have been cheese.

:rofl:

Bonehead is fitting.

The Republicans can't afford for their idiot base to actually pay attention to Obama's policies. If they do, those dimwitted morons will realize a couple of very basic things:

1) Barack Obama's policies are very similar to those of George Bush, who many Republicans still secretly (or not so secretly) adore.

2) When and where Obama's policies differ from those of George Bush, the country generally benefits.

Best, think the Republican puppeteers, to throw up a smokescreen (birth certificate, Kenya, Muslim, socialist, Hitler). Keep the idiots distracted.

The only difference is that monkeys are a lot smarter.

:hide:

pathetic and sad people they are.