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FYI: The first immigrant group asked to "carry papers" were Chinese Americans

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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 01:52 PM
Original message
FYI: The first immigrant group asked to "carry papers" were Chinese Americans
Edited on Thu May-06-10 01:55 PM by Nikki Stone1
The more things change, the more they stay the same. And for people calling the Arizona law "Nazi-like," this was way before the Third Reich. Welcome to America.




"In 1892, with a presidential election fast approaching, Democratic Congressman Thomas Geary of Sonoma County, California, had seized on anti-Chinese sentiment and wrote an identification bill that easily passed the House of Representatives, 178-43, and the Senate, 30-15. The Geary Act gave a Chinese laborer one year to register for a certificate or face immediate deportation. The identity card was to contain two duplicate photographs that were "securely affixed to the papers by strong adhesive paste...."


"The identification cards had their roots in slavery. Before the Civil War, enslaved blacks had often been forced to carry identifying passes when they left their plantations, and free blacks were required to bear papers proving that they were not slaves..."

"Thousands honored the call to disobey the "Dog Tag Law" and they faced immediate deportation. Their refusal to carry an identity card, American's first internal passport, created perhaps the largest organized act of civil disobedience in the United States."

Taken from: Pfaelzer, Jean, Driven Out: The Forgotten War Against Chinese Americans, University of California Press, 2008
pp.291-292





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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
1. This is as American as Apple Pie
and as I pointed a while ago, the Nazis got some ideas from us... as well as the brits

Concentration camps where you transport an ethnic group you don't like? We call them Reservations. Granted the Ghetto was wholly a European Subsidiary of Italian History (16th century)

We just did not install all the horrors but both the Germans and the Brits used the model for internal relocation.

I could go on...
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I was waiting for you Nadin!
I was thinking of you when I posted this. It's amazing how there's nothing new under the sun, eh?
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Echoes of history, that is how I like to call them
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #4
28. People are so limited in their thinking and their options. We always revert
no matter how far we think we've come.

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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #28
40. It ain't gonna help that Americans not only
not know what happened last week. They don't care either...

Now if you talk about Myth... that's another story.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
3. I don't think that's right. Slaves had to carry passes long before that
Edited on Thu May-06-10 02:10 PM by EFerrari
and it's likely that indentured servants did, not to mention, enslaved Native Americans out on the West Coast.

ETA: And that would push "carrying papers" back to the 1700s if not before then.
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foxfeet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. I agree with your take on the issue.
That, of course, does nothing to minimize the indignities suffered by the Chinese.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. That's right. There is a structure on Angel Island
that was used to house Asian immigrant women when they were being rounded up here in San Francisco and sent back, mostly to China. We went there with a friend who translated the notes written on the walls. These women were writing letters on the walls of their prison to all their female relatives in hopes of trying to keep track of families that were being dispersed and destroyed.
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. How you agree when it's wrong?
Slaves were not immigrants officially. They were either property or freedmen (before 1860) or citizens after the 14th amendment. They were never considered immigrants. This was bad and evil and everything else, but technically, that is the case.
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foxfeet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Indentured servants certainly were immigrants.
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #13
24. Indentured servants were immigrants to the colonies, not the political entity known as the US
..
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foxfeet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #24
32. Aw, Nikki, your need to be right is overriding your otherwise good sense.
We are in agreement that such practices were (and are) heinous and that they have a long history in North America. I'll disengage now. Bu-bye.:hi:
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. If it makes you feel better, you can believe anything you like.
:)
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. I think you're missing the bigger picture
which (imo) is that eventually immigrants could simply be treated as if they were slaves or indentured.
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #14
21. That's not what you said before and now you have me confused.
What precisely is your bigger picture? I'm not ragging on you hear, I'm really trying to get where you're headed with this.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #21
29. I guess where I'm headed with this is that, ugly as it is,
even before the United States existed, this culture had categories of people who needed "papers" to travel.

So, while what was done to the Chinese was horrendous, that practice is older than our revolution. That's all, really. That's our original sin. This grand experiment in democracy was fueled by slave labor whether it was in the form of importing slaves or enslaving native peoples or enslaving people economically. They all needed to carry papers.
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. Those paper holders (indentured servants for example) fell under British law
Anything done under colonial rule becomes British law and British responsibility. Once the US begins in 1781, it is its own separate entity that bears its own political sins, not those of England. The title of the OP as to who was *first* (which I gather is your issue) reflects the political status of the United States as an independent country and is correct.

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. And that is the viewpoint of the lawmakers, not the people
Edited on Thu May-06-10 03:13 PM by EFerrari
who had been forced to "carry papers".

/oops
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. No, it's what was legal and what had power
You can have a different perspective on you FEEL about something but not about the legality of something. Feelings are lovely but they are not fact.
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. Did you read the OP? It mentions slaves.
The ID process grew out of slavery, but slaves were not considered immigrants. They were considered property before 1860 and were citizens after the 14th amendment.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. So, do you also not consider African slaves and indentured servants
immigrants?

That's a very selective understanding of the issue you've chosen to address.
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 02:38 PM
Original message
Yep. The only reason they weren't considered immigrants is that
slaves weren't even considered to be human at that time. Nevertheless, they had to produce papers saying they were either freed or had permission by their owner to be doing whatever they were doing. Most indentured servants were luckly considered to be human, at least. But they still had to carry papers.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
16. In order to not consider African slaves migrants
you have to adopt the viewpoint of slaveholders. :crazy:
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Ding ding ding!
We're on the same page here. :hi:
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. No, you have to interpret history in context.
As I said, African Americans had a singular horrific experience here that completely dwarfs anything that happened to immigrants. But you can't redefine what actually happened. Unlike immigrants, who came here voluntarily, African Americans were brought here in chains against their will, sold into bondage with no hope of getting out or of their children getting out. There's no experience that can equate with that.
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. It's not about what *I* consider: it's about what is historically accurate.
If you want to interpret African American slaves as immigrants, that is fine. But that wasn't technically how they were regarded. African Americans had a very different and horrific experience in this country. Immigrants had a hard time (in varying degrees) but the African American experience is singular and it dwarfs what happened to most immigrants.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. Sorry, Nikki, I don't read history through the lense of slaveholders. n/t
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. Are you saying that I do?
I think that's against DU rules.

It's also wrong. Just because people are being historically accurate doesn't mean they are racists.
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. You're exactly right. nt
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wilt the stilt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
5. My grandfather was born in CA in 1890
Edited on Thu May-06-10 02:37 PM by wilt the stilt
and went back to China twenty years later he came back. I wish I could talk to him now. Of course I never really talked to either of my grandparents. They only spoke Cantonese. My mom translated for us.
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. That's such a tragedy.
Asian immigrants got the worst treatment of any meted out to immigrants. Such unbelievable violations of human rights.
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pampango Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
15. Imagine that. Politicans running on a fear of the "other" platform. Chinese, Blacks, Mexicans,
the specifics change but the strategy remains the same. Rule through fear.

And I thought the republicans invented it. :)
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. Hate and fear don't have a single political party.
Imagine that. ;)
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
22.  K+R Thank you for the reminder
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. Tough to be in AZ this month, eh?
Thanks for the K & R.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. Actually, I am proud of the work some of our locals are doing. I am proud of the Suns!
Edited on Thu May-06-10 03:02 PM by saracat
and the protests have been awesome. But I really hope we don't get a backlash and the GOP doesn't dig in.WE absolutely MUST GOTV.If we do that we can turn this state around.
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. Los Suns!
That was something, wasn't it. :)
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waiting for hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
25. K&R ...
While some worry about semantics, it's true that the idea grew from us .. and most people are unaware of how bigoted the Democratic party in the early years.
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #25
39. Thanks for the K & R
.
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county worker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
30. When the Central Pacific was building the transcontinental railroad east,
Edited on Thu May-06-10 02:59 PM by county worker
Crocker and Huntington wanted to bring 500,000 Chinese over at one time to work on the railroad. They were the best workers, best fed by other Chinese and they bathed everyday summer and winter. The used opium but not whiskey. They tried to get Freedmen from the south but could not, they tried to get ex civil war soldiers but could not.

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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #30
36. You are exactly right.
There a great book on this called "Chinese America"

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county worker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-10 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #36
42. I'll check it out.
I like walking around Chinatown in San Fran.
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-10 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
41. Geary Blvd. in SF runs through the heavily Chinese Richmond district
also known as "New Chinatown".

Time for a name change to honor an influential San Franciscan of Chinese descent, the way Army St. in the Latino Mission District became Cesar Chavez Blvd.
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AsahinaKimi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-10 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
43. Early Chinese Found Support in Santa Barbara
Edited on Fri May-07-10 07:48 PM by AsahinaKimi
Early Chinese Found Support in Santa Barbara
By XIAOJIAN ZHAO


During the late 19th and early 20th centuries, racial prejudice flared into violent attacks against the Chinese in many towns and cities along the West Coast. In Oregon, Washington, and especially in California, many Chinese residences and businesses were burned down, and a large number of Chinese immigrants were harassed, murdered, or forced to move to Chinatowns in large cities, especially San Francisco.

At the same time, however, the Chinese population in Santa Barbara (including Goleta) grew steadily. Local newspapers reported that the Chinese constituted 10 percent of the area's population in 1900. Most remarkably, Chinese Santa Barbarans were able to gain the support of local citizens in their fight against discriminatory legislation.

more:
http://www.instadv.ucsb.edu/93106/2001/mar19/chinese/chinese.html
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