Obese Patients With Methane on Their Breath Have Significantly Higher Body Mass Index

Obese Patients With Methane on Their Breath Have Significantly Higher Body Mass Index, Study Finds

ScienceDaily (May 5, 2010) — New Cedars-Sinai research shows obese patients who test positive for methane on their breath have a significantly higher body mass index (BMI) than their peers.

The study, which was presented at Digestive Disease Week in New Orleans, La., is the first in humans to show a link between the presence of methane-producing bacteria in the gut and elevated BMI, indicating that bacteria may play a role in obesity.

"Obesity is a major health issue and is reaching pandemic levels," said Ruchi Mathur, M.D., a physician in the Division of Endocrinology, Diabetes and Metabolism and one of the study's authors. "It is our hope that by better understanding all the factors that contribute to obesity, we can develop more effective ways of fighting it."

The research was a joint effort of the Center for Weight Loss and the GI Motility Program. The study was led by Mark Pimentel, M.D., director of the GI Motility Program at Cedars-Sinai.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/05/100506090937.htm

The problem starts early. When I was young, there were no fat kids, or at most, one, in the whole school. These days, it seems that most kids carry way too much weight. And I am not talking about their book packs. Fast food, sodie pops, sedentary activities, no gym class, all combine to make them obese. Some morbidly obese.

is almost considered svelte now.

Gulf seafood (burp).

they rarely include over-eating or under-exercising. What's up with that?

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fuck, even power windows in your car


Everything is designed to make you fat and lazy....why should I spin that crank when I can just touch a button

Self propelled lawnmowers, why would you buy one of those? Too lazy to push a damn lawnmower?

at the same time we have a diet that results in hundreds more calories.
So compared to even 40 years ago caloric burn is way down and caloric intake is way up.

I mean it shouldn't be a shock to people. Law of conservation of energy. Calories are energy that can't just magic away they have to go somewhere. The somewhere is fat stored for later use. Which is a good thing for species normally except today there is no later use so it becomes stored infinitely.

I said NO. I vacuum my own carpets. Why the heck would I want some electrical thing to trip over?

but we go bike, hike and other things...

:-)

But as much as it can hurt to move, I find I hurt MORE if I don't get up and move this crappy body. What's the old adage - if you don't use it you lose it? It really does apply to bodies, even ones with problems.

I'll bet there's lots of fat people that had no idea.

>overeating underachievers<

Thanks for your concern. And, yeah, if you've never seen bullying IRL or on this website towards the fat, I recommend getting an eye exam.

I am overweight and trust me, I have cut to about 1800 calories a day and try to get some excercize in 3-4 times a week and I still can't lose weight. And it's frustrating. And it's also frustrating that people just assume I'm some lazy ass sitting on my sofa eating Ho-Ho's.

1800 calories + activity has kept your weight at best constant.
That would indicate that eating more than 1800 calories and/or less activity would result in weight gain.

My wife thinks it is totally unfair that different people have different body chemistry and caloric burn rates.
She is trying to lose a couple pounds so is working out and keeping herself on 1600 calories.

I am trying to get in shape for 10K for Austism so my caloric burn rate is about 3000 calories per day. To avoid losing muscle I need to eat at least 2300 calories. It is hard to eat 2300 calories of good food if you aren't loading up on sugar, and are eating the recommended amounts of lean protein and fiber.

Yes, for some people to assume it's all about eating more and exercizing less is a bit stereotypical.

For you for example 1800 calories and your current caloric burn is equilibrium. Not losing weight not gaining weight. However if you were to consume more calories without increasing your caloric burn then you will gain weight. There is simply no avoiding it. If you are burning 1800 calories per day and intaking 2000 calories per day you will build up a +200 calorie surplus. The human body always the conservationist will store that for you.

If it is only say 2000 it might take a while but slowly you would gain weight. 3500 calories per pound of fat / +200 intake daily = gain 1 pound every 17.5 days.

That is partially offset by the fact that caloric burn increases with weight (moving more weight requires more energy) but not enough. Eventually your body will reach equilibrium again at some higher weight. Some level of weight & activity that matches a 2000 calorie intake.

<------ 1200

There is this pesky thing called Insulin Resistance and Adult Metabolic Syndrome. I'd recommend the google.

Oh and IT IS GOING UP...

Even in that instance what has happened is the effective caloric intake goes way down and as a result even eating normally results in an excess of calories.

I mean it is simple physics. If calories in is > calories you will absolutely lose weight. Period. There is no way to overcome that dynamic. Energy can't come from nothing. It either has to come from caloric intake or calories in the body. Now you might not always burn fat you can destroy muscle instead but that is a another topic.

The big problem with IR is that it can reduces caloric burn rate so low the person is constantly fatigued they simply can't do anything extra and as such their caloric equilibrium is low far to low too low. As a result you can reach a point where someone can neither raise their burn rate nor safely reduce their caloric intake and that is rock meet hard place.

thanks to the increase in obesity rates?

We are thinking that insecticides are changing how the body works... at the hormonal level.

We also know HFCS are not processed the same way.

As I said... NOT as simple and I wish it was.

All these studies are quickly showing morality plays no role nor moral failings.

Me... FIND a way to counter this... and it is beyond just eating less and exercising more... which is the usual mantra. It still works for a majority, but not as large a majority as it used to... and it will continue to go down as more and more people are affected by what is ailing us... and we as a species are doing it to ourselves.

I think all that contributes to the problem.

However ultimately the body is an engine an engine that requires energy (in form of sugar) for everything. Breathing, sleeping, walking, even eating (physically moving the fork from plate to mouth).

So for every single person on the planet there is a caloric equilibrium. Now that can be raised or lowered by a whole host of factors both on the caloric burn side and the caloric intake side however for every single person on the planet if you eat at your caloric equilibrium you will not gain or lose weight.

Now that level can vary between a pair of identical twins doing the same exact thing. Two people eating the same good can have different caloric intake (differing level of efficiency in processing food). Two people following the same lifestyle can have different caloric burn rates.

Then you have environmental factors, issues with chemicals in food, illness, disease, etc.

However *effective* calories in (body rarely uses 100% of calories in food) = calories expended + calories stored.
Anything else violates the laws of physics. Energy HAS to come from somewhere and all functions of the body require energy.

had to have her thyroid removed. They thought they had everything balanced.

Then, she started gaining weight. She called me in tears. She had been on a strict 1000 cal diet for a month (I believe her) and she gained over 35 lbs. She had always bugged me about MY weight and really never believed me when I told her I was trying hard to keep it off ( my weight problem started when I went on the pill and continued after I quit). I told her to go back to the Doc. He altered her meds and she dropped the weight. I have to say she was more sympathetic to me after her experience.

I gave up after years of fighting-trying every diet under the sun. I was watching an infomercial (I won't say) but it wasn't the first I tried.....but for some reason-IT WORKED FOR ME. It is a glycemic index based diet and at 56 years old I have been losing weight fairly effortlessly. I eat far more food than when I was on a calorie restriction diet. I really am eating all the time. Once the weight started coming off-I naturally became more active (it didn't hurt as much). I had always been active in an unsuccessful effort to keep my weight down, but now, it is working. I average losing 5 lbs a month and have lost 25 lbs since I started in Dec.

I am not judgmental toward folks-we all have our demons. Mom smoked for years before she was able to quit. My dear brother is celebrating his 3rd year of sobriety, and I am finally on track to a healthy weight-so in my family we have seen it all. I think it is cruel and unnecessary to torment people about their problems. There are no one size fits all answers and who am I to judge. I just try to lend support. We don't know the whole story about women and weight. I think it is related to species survival and child bearing so I just lend support as best I can because we live in a shallow culture that places more value on a woman's looks than her substance.

Because there is much more to it than simple math.

The less you eat and the more youe exercise, the less you "need." Why assume that everyone can get out in front of that equations?

fat is by overeating and sitting on your ass??

:eyes:

play a major role in increasing girth.

people without methane on their breath have a higher BMI. BMI is simply a height/weight ratio, and not nearly as good as a 'percentage of body fat' measurement.

A body builder with virtually no body fat can have a BMI number in the overweight/obese range.

no moral failure on this... and that even the over eating is part of a slew of addictive behaviors.

Morality has no place in science, well beyond the ethics board, if you know what I mean.

Now all these studies showing that it is MULTI CAUSAL should make you start rethinking that morality play in your head, not that it will.

And that's why the research into other reasons -- because there are other elements in the so-called modern lifestyle besides the kind of food great-grandma used to grow and cook.

Hekate

I just have fat bacteria.

in fun -- :evilgrin:

Sorry, OP, I kind of doubt that was your intent, but that's what it looks like this is going to turn into. So I'll get my opinion out there now.

1) Obesity runs in families. I think it's both a nature and nurture issue, not just one or the other. We learn the behaviors and coping mechanisms we see our parents use in our childhood, and tendencies toward insulin resistance and the sequelae of insulin resistance that doctors call "Metabolic Syndrome", as well as thyroid dysfunctions, can be inherited.

2) Usually by the time a person has become clinically obese, they have been on multiple diets/yoyo dieting. Their metabolism is deregulated and they do not metabolize calories the same way that a person who has never dieted would. The "calories in/calories out" equations all vary from person to person, but it's a known fact that a person who was 20lbs overweight and then lost back down will have a slower metabolism than a person of the same weight who never gained and lost that 20 lbs. It is quite scientifically possible for a person who is morbidly obese and who has been on numerous yo-yo diets to gain weight on 1200-1500 calories a day. By dieting they trained their bodies to process energy from food more efficiently. Add in any history of eating disorders, and their metabolism will be even worse.

3) Physical activity becomes more and more difficult as a person gains weight. Stress on the knees and other joints make it painful to work out, and when a person is seeing people on the elliptical for hours on end, the fact they can only do 10 minutes on the recumbent bike is very discouraging. It hurts, they feel like they will never be able to exercise enough to make a difference, and give up on the programs fairly quickly without significant support to get them past the hurdle and at a point where they will actually start seeing positive reinforcement in the fit of their clothes and on the scale.

4) While I'm sure that some people who overeat are not doing it for psychological reasons, there's a reason they call it "compulsive overeating". The coping mechanism they have learned is to stuff their feelings by stuffing their stomachs with food. It's not as simple as refusing to buy cigarettes when you've been stuffing your feelings by smoking, or not going out to bars if you stuff your feelings by drinking. Eating is required to live, they can't drop food cold turkey. This is the reason why most doctors require a psychological evaluation and therapy if needed to address eating disorders (and yes, compulsive overeating is an eating disorder) before considering a patient a candidate for gastric bypass. It's not just laziness and gluttony. People attributing it all to laziness and gluttony just make the person feel even worse about themselves, and make them want that chocolate cake more than ever because it's the coping mechanism they know.

I've been fat. I'm still clinically obese, but I've been a lot fatter than I am right now -- I'm 65 lbs down from my high weight. I am going to the gym 4 times a week and have built up to 45 minutes on the seated elliptical. It is possible to lose weight -- we all know this. But it's not as easy as most people who have never been fat think it is. The judgmental attitudes do nothing to actually help the obesity epidemic.

It is a complex issue however ultimately it boils down to calories in vs calories out.
If you consume more than you burn you WILL (unless you have other health issues) gain weight.

What makes it "unfair" is that different people have different caloric burn for doing the same activity, also some people bodies process food more effectively (they get more useful calories out same amount of food).

I had never heard about the diet/weight metabolism change but it makes sense.

Glad to hear you stuck with it and are still exercising. Losing weight without increasing caloric burn is virtually impossible. Losing weight without reducing caloric intake is also very difficult. Doing both is far easier.

That's why I wrote, "I'm not fat" instead of "You're not fat".

And yes, I am fat in real life.

I had been typing all of that up, and I think you posted what you said while I was typing instead of refreshing the screen.

It was more directed at those who refer to fat people as "overeating underachievers" as an example in this thread -- and more toward the fact I've seen these threads turn into 400+ post monster threads and really don't expect anything different out of this one. Of course, I'd love it if my expectations were proven wrong :)

Probably a lot healthier too, but that doesn't make any difference to the snots. Healthier is not an achievement--only the attainment of average BMI.

We know what medical science tells us is a healthy weight range. My current BMI is 32.3. At my high weight, my BMI was 44.6. Supposedly anything from 18.5 to 24.9 is "healthy", 25-29.9 is "overweight", and the word "obese" is used at 30. Morbidly obese is usually referencing a BMI of over 40 or over 35 with contributing health factors that make their weight dangerous enough to their health to consider gastric bypass surgery. My doctors look at those numbers and say definitively that my weight loss has made a huge (and please pardon the pun there) difference in my health and future quality of life, even if I do not lose another pound. The fact I was able to do it without surgery is even better for my long-term health since I will not suffer the sometimes horrific aftereffects of bariatric surgery.

But seriously, what's the "average" BMI? I don't think anyone really has a clue. All we know is TV tells us it's rising.

Most of the time when people are judging "fat" negatively, they are responding to an image -- either a photograph or a mental image, not a number like BMI or weight or measurements. You know what? My naked body was likely much more attractive when I was at my high weight! No loose skin. Sure, many may be repulsed by the mental image of fat rolls or "muffin top", but check out the pictures of a gastric bypass patient before a tummy tuck. There's only so much that skin can shrink after it's been stretched, even when patients lose weight slower than what is common in post-gastric bypass patients. They may be healthier at a lower weight, but a panniculus is not sexy.

If a person is trying to lose weight to look good, they're a lot more likely to fail than if they're doing it for their well being and future health. If they're doing it because of other people's attitudes toward them, what internal motivation is there?

In my case, I'm trying to avoid the fate of the vast majority of my female relatives. My mother and three of her cousins have had gastric bypass surgery. My paternal grandmother died at over 600 lbs -- she maintained between 350 and 400 before her knees deteriorated so much that she was confined to a wheelchair. By that time, her heart was not strong enough to handle anesthesia for either gastric bypass or the double knee replacements she needed. My sister went the opposite direction -- she developed anorexia in high school. If I see myself heading uncontrollably in the direction my paternal grandmother went, I will have bariatric surgery. But it is NOT something I want to do. After you've watched someone have to have two revisions and struggle with vitamin deficiencies because they cannot absorb nutrients (the first revision was done when my mother went from a 40+ BMI to a 17 two years post-surgery -- they'd bypassed too much of her intestine)... it's not something you want to subject yourself to.

I am happy if I don't gain. I'm happier to lose. But I'm not going to beat myself up over not being "normal" weight. And that's probably what has contributed the most to the fact I've been able to lose and keep it off without yo-yoing much (I did gain after I dislocated my kneecap, but I've lost that now that I've been able to find an exercise program that does not stress that knee too badly.) Don't try to lose weight for other people, or to make other people get off your back. If you're not doing it for yourself... you're not likely to succeed.

I agree--you seem to have had good luck focusing on your health.

That's a huge accomplishment.

I think your post is excellent, too. There are many factors that make it difficult to lose weight. It is not a moral shortcoming, and it is more complex than calorie in vs. calorie out. I do think that the more people understand the battle, the more successful and supportive we all my become.

People who blame things like the xbox forget we had the atari2600 back in the day. Most kids I knew still wanted to go outside and play. I blame the advancement of graphics in videogames as a factor.

Generally speaking more calories, less nutritious food, lot less activity, and who knows WTF the chemicals really are doing.

due to certain risk factors are more likely to put on weight due to increased calorie intact than other people. The indication is having certain gut bacteria makes you more inclined to gain weight. Of course being overweight may mean your gut can host more of certain types of bacteria. It's hardly clear at all. People can very easily control their calories and for the vast majority of the populous that seems to be enough. It's certainly less easy to control your gut bacteria:)

responsible for those upgraded graphics, i blame the parents for not kicking the kids in the ass and sending them out to play.

my mom would shoo us out of the house and we didn't come back unless it rained or it was dinner time. i send my kids out to our yard, but we live in the country and there is NO WAY i am letting them go out to the road or ride their bikes on the road or anything. if we lived in town i might let emily who is 11 walk or ride her bike around, but not out here. we have a fairly large yard she rides her bike around. and i will shoo them out there for awhile. but there are so many factors..... parents working insanely long hours and kids left to their own devices and/or have to stay indoors with doors locked. that kind of stuff affects things. how about the schools getting rid of extracurricular activities and recess or PE.... that can't help. or the soccer and basketball are now prohibitively expensive to taht parent who is working three jobs and stuff.

almost all categories of crime were higher in the 70's and 80's and it was considered safe enough to play.

parents who are afraid to let their kids out to play for fear of the harm they will come to may be harming their children more through creating sedentary habits and too frequent snacking that come from being inside at home too much.

"Come quick, Watson! I've solved the energy crisis!"

:rofl:

Ah, this week's "I'm morally superior to you, you slob, because I am not fat" thread!!!

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :hide:


Nadin and Missy Vixen always chime in on this topic and they are right.

Often due to environmental toxins compounded by genetic predisposition to autoimmune diseases like Hashimoto's thyroiditis (the most common form of dead thyroid), diabetes, adrenal fatigue (quite common but ignored by doctors, from my experience) and who knows what else we have messed up in our metabolisms.


Oh and BTW, it is pretty difficult to get enough exercise to lose weight by what happened to me: I would do ten minutes on the treadmill at the gym, with a max speed of 3 mph, and then do the circuit weights at ten or twenty pounds.

What did I do next? Go home exhausted, sleep for twelve to fourteen hours.

Eventually I figured out it was most likely adrenal burnout--also discussed at the link below. Millions of folks have dead adrenals and dead thyroids -- this is common and the docs don't want to treat people for it. Sad stories below:

www.stopthethyroidmadness.com

http://thyroid.about.com

I went to a weight loss doctor (M.D., Ph.D., a very smart person) and lost a few pounds but went into starvation mode due to calorie restriction. It was a waste of time and effort and money, I would have done better just to get liposuction. Seriously.

:banghead:

:grr: :banghead: :banghead:

You bet I'll chime in, and to quote Skittles, I'm putting on my steel-toed boots.

It is amazing to me that people who frequent this website have no problem name-calling the fat. It must be fun to be a bully. After all, it makes them feel better about themselves, doesn't it?

You, Nadin, and I have explained, explained, explained that there are many different components to obesity. Moriah above did an excellent job as well. We are still confronted with those who know better, who think that it's their perfect right to say things to the fat that would get them deleted or worse if said about any other group here, and their concern has been noted.

It must be great to have all the answers. I sure as hell don't.

... who saw the thread rapidly starting to turn into an agent for people to feel smugly superior, if it went the route of previous conversations on this topic....

When I was at my highest weight, I was on birth control pills and had a low enough thyroid level/high enough TSH to merit treatment with Synthroid. The Synthroid really did nothing for me. When I quit taking birth control, I also quit taking the Synthroid, mainly because I really couldn't afford either. I lost 20 lbs the first month and really wasn't trying all that hard. Six months off of oral contraceptives and thyroid hormone supplements, and all of my bloodwork was back to "normal". Obviously for me, birth control pills suppressed my thyroid.

The hormonal balance in the body and brain is something we still haven't quite figured out yet. Why is insulin resistance linked to polycystic ovarian syndrome, and why does a medicine designed to make your body utilize insulin better make women with PCOS more likely to ovulate in the "normal" fashion? Why would doses of estrogen and progesterone suppress a thyroid? Why does HCG (the chemical urine dipstick tests for pregnancy check for) stimulate the thyroid, so much so that many women who are obese lose weight during pregnancy (not just from morning sickness either)?

Of course there are behavioral issues, and emotional ones like those I mentioned in my post when I discussed compulsive overeating. But boiling obesity and weight gain down to two of the seven deadly sins (sloth and gluttony) is simplistic and shortsighted, not to mention IMHO unhelpful to a person who is actually trying to lose weight. Addressing emotional eating patterns and encouraging exercise is definitely something we should try to do for our children, especially if we ourselves are overweight -- so they can avoid becoming obese as much as is possible given any genetic influences. We can try to learn healthy eating patterns ourselves, not use food as a reward, not guilt-trip our kids into cleaning their plate, etc. But it's not the be-all, end-all cure for obesity in this country, at least not for awhile. Maybe in a few generations?

---------

For myself, I exercise at the end of my day instead of at the beginning. I know it's backwards from what most people recommend, but if I'm already up, out of the house, have my gym bag in the car, and am passing the gym on my way home, I'm more likely to go than to wake up early. Working nights and very long shifts makes me already have some very odd sleeping patterns, and I will usually sleep about 15-16 hours straight at the end of my "week". The fatigue I have after exercising is actually helpful for my sleep :)

If you do decide to attempt gym-based exercise again, I seriously recommend a seated elliptical trainer. There's only one at my gym, and sometimes there's a line to use it. But after dislocating my kneecap a few years ago, that knee has not been the same. I cannot do 10 minutes on a standing elliptical or a treadmill without being in agony. But on the seated elliptical, I'm able to keep my heartrate in the aerobic zone for 45 minutes now -- I started out at 10, and built up slowly. The recumbent bikes don't actually seem to work my muscles nearly as well, mainly because there is no arm activity at all -- it's much harder to keep my heartrate up where it should be on the bike. There is a "muscle endurance" program on the one I use that uses intervals of 30 seconds with randomly increased resistance (like one time it'll be resistance against pushing the handles set to 5 and tell me to only use my arms, the next it'll put resistance in the legs, the next might be pulling, or tell you to go into reverse, etc...) with a minute "breather" in between each one. So I'm able to get some strength training while maintaining a heart rate in the target range without having to spend as much time in the gym.

Also, my gym has a hot tub with a "sweet spot" where the jets hit my back in just the right places to feel like I'm getting a massage after I've worked out -- it really helps me with the soreness and stiffness after exercise. I think it's the only reason I've been able to keep this up.

Interesting article.

ate a lot of junk. Seriously, this is the primary reason for most, not all, most.

>Seriously, this is the primary reason for most, not all, most.<

Why is this any of your business?

It's amazing to me that people who believe their lives are their business also believe it's their perfect right to shame or shun other people because they weigh more than you do.

Also, maybe those of us who have metabolic problems should wear a sign. After all, it's important to separate the "slobs" from the "other slobs", isn't it?

:eyes:

I did not shame or shun anyone. Projection!
If you wear a sign that says "metabolism" I will wear one that says "sat on the couch and ate too many hot dogs"
Deal?

It's comical to me that we have these threads, over and over and over. Those who can't wait to demonize or shame the fat don't get the point that you treat all fat people the same, metabolic issues or not.

>Projection!<

Oh, yeah. We've never seen anyone on this site bash the fat. You stated your opinion that everyone who's fat is so because they "sat on the couch and ate too many hot dogs". What would you call it?

BTW, the OP's article is about bacteria in the gut causing methane on the breath of the obese. Scientists believe the bacteria in question may add to the propensity to gain weight. It's amusing to me that those who can't wait to jump all over the fat have nothing to say about the fact more and more studies are showing there may be bacteria or virus in the bodies of the fat affecting metabolism that isn't there in those of normal weight. Then again, if cramming baked goods and KFC's Double Downs into our face is not the only reason, there are those who will have to re-examine their own bigotry.

God forbid!

And yet about once every week or two, some morally superior skinny person tells the rest of us that we just stuff food in our mouths all day long, never get off the sofa, live on junk food, because otherwise, if we just ate right and exercised like they do, we would never be fat, right???

:sarcasm:

Thirty or forty million people with undertreated and underdiagnosed thyroid/adrenal/pancreas/estrogen/progesterone/testosterone/you name it glandular problems is NOT minor.

And yet you don't see any celebrities touting their thyroid problems as a "Disease of the month" spotlight for research and publicity. They can't ever get Oprah to admit that she had thyroid problems on TV. They just DO NOT TALK ABOUT IT like they do many other conditions.


I read in Scientific American that just about all degenerative aging changes are caused by excessive inflammation. People who burned out their adrenals from too much stress (probably a large majority of the American population because of slave driver bosses) can't cope with inflammation, which is what cortisol is produced for. No wonder so many people hit the wall and can't cope with work, the kids, or the boss or even interaction with other people. I was sick of my job before i was 35 or 36 years old (as in going home and crying every night just from stress).

www.stopthethyroidmadness.com

http://thyroid.about.com

I wonder if eating lots of yogurt would eventually displace the methane-producing stuff with lactobacillus or something less stinky and obesogenic.