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Summarizing The Kagan Controversy: She's Not You.

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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 02:29 PM
Original message
Summarizing The Kagan Controversy: She's Not You.
Edited on Wed May-12-10 02:37 PM by berni_mccoy
Excellent, excellent post at Kos on this most recent topic to divide the left. Also this diary is very timely to go hand-in-hand with Skinner's recent post on expectations and grantcart's post on diversity yesterday.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/5/12/865581/-The-Problem-With-Elena-Kagan-Is-That-Shes-Not-You

The Problem With Elena Kagan Is That She's Not You

The Problem With Elena Kagan Is That She's Not You
by Troubadour


Wed May 12, 2010 at 10:36:40 AM PDT

This diary isn't addressed to anyone in particular - there have been relatively thoughtful diaries expressing concerns about this or that in her record, and I'm sure the most cogent of those concerns will be addressed in the confirmation hearings. But ultimately, I agree with Cenk Uygur that the problem with Elena Kagan is the same as that with Barack Obama: Neither is Cenk Uygur. Or, speaking more generally, neither is you (whoever you happen to be). You, the paragon of liberal virtue, repository of all knowledge and oracle of progressive political wisdom, have been impiously blasphemed again and again by the failure of the political establishment to do exactly what you would do in their place.

They have failed to act in their capacity - as defined by you - of being your personal agents in Washington, and instead acting as if they have minds of their own, and have to represent other people as well. It's almost as if they believe they're human beings in a society of other human beings, trying to do a job with many interlocking and occasionally interfering responsibilities. Where do they get such crazy ideas?

A President of the United States who went to Harvard Law School on his own merit and taught law at the University of Chicago must be off his rocker to think he knows the difference between a good potential Supreme Court Justice and just some random person wandering the halls of the Justice Department. I mean, sure he might get lucky and accidentally nominate the right person - hopefully you, or someone who is exactly like you - but more likely than not, he would nominate someone who at some time said something you disagree with: A grievous offense against all that is righteous and holy - aka, you.




Much more goodness at the link.

Edited to add link.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
1. Browbeating is not persuasive. Or rather, it only works
on authoritarian followers. This individual either doesn't know his/her audience or he isn't speaking to them.
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. +1000 n/t
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. I think he's mocking them.
A well deserved mocking.
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Nice mischaracterization. I think the author knows their audience quite well. It's the top-rec'd
post at Kos currently.

Apparently, it's well received over there.

And it's not browbeating to respond to browbeating.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #4
21. "It's not about you" is not an argument and I'm so sorry
but I really am not impressed at how many people mistook it for one at Kos or anywhere.

This is not a useful way to talk about differences within our party.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Yes, whatever, berni

LOL
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. You might want to go read it. It's the top recced diary opn DailyKos
First tag: snark
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. You Mean Like Browbeating Anyone Who Disagrees With You As "Not Really A Liberal"
Or browbeating anyone who's not adequately critical of Obama's "corporate whorishness" as "Not a real left-wing liberal" or who just doesn't understand what corporate stooge, lackey, slave they are?

Is it brow beating to claim that anyone who dares not immediately jump to the conclusion that everything Obama does is really just part of some giant corporate controlled conspiracy and every nomination is really him bowing to the wishes of his corporate masters must therefore be a "DLC stooge" etc.

You mean that kind of browbeating?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #12
22. Browbeating is the absence of a real position, isn't it?
No matter who does it?
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. See, That's The Problem, You Define Everything The Way You Want It Be Defined
That sure makes everything real easy, doesn't it?

That way, everything is exactly the way you want it to be and you're never wrong about anything.

I'm just going to redefine every word to mean "chocolate cake" that way everything will always be delicious.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. That's funny. I was agreeing with you.
But, chocolate cake is fine with me. :)

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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. Then I Guess I'm Disagreeing With Your Agreeing
Edited on Wed May-12-10 03:55 PM by Beetwasher
Because I don't agree with your definition of browbeating. Mmmm. Browbeating (chocolate cake).

See. I'm such a fucking asshole I even disagree with people who agree with me.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
32. This author accurately hit his target in a fairly humorous way and it's always doubtful
Edited on Wed May-12-10 03:58 PM by KittyWampus
that satirists write for those they are targeting.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. It's really not that difficult to hit a strawman, lol.
Edited on Wed May-12-10 04:29 PM by EFerrari
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
5. The problem with kagan is, she's at best a right-leaning moderate.
no matter how often you ridicule others, that remains the problem.
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Oh really? Who am I ridiculing?
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #5
35. we'll see. I suspect she'll be a reliable vote with
the Ginsberg, Breyer, Sotomayor bloc.
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
7. Awesome diary
Edited on Wed May-12-10 02:36 PM by WeDidIt
and hits the nail firmly on the head.
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Electric Monk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. -1, unrec, she's too much like you
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. That's a damned nice compliment
If you consider somebody as witty, intelligent, LIBERAL, and PROGRESSIVE as KAgan to be just like me, you must have a damned high opinion of me.

Thank you.

:hug:
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RandomThoughts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
8. heh, that is one reason I think people should not bow down.
Although, find what you believe based on what you think and feel, not because you are told and don't think and feel.

I find many good things in many places, but they are choices based on what I can discern as best, not just what to follow.

And why I don't give up on my dreams.

Weapon of Choice.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMZwZiU0kKs
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
9. More than happy to unrec the trivilization and insulting of people who
have serious diagreements with kagan's positions on many issues.
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FSogol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
10. +1 n/t
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BakedAtAMileHigh Donating Member (900 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
14. well that proves it!
Posting the opinion of another blogger is a sure-fire way to PROVE you are right! Way to go, you brave internet warrior! :eyes:
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. You mean like this?
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BakedAtAMileHigh Donating Member (900 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. that's satire, not fact
Try again, Bunky. Geejus. :eyes:
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Um, so is the post I linked. You must have missed the snark tag.
Edited on Wed May-12-10 02:53 PM by berni_mccoy
But that's probably because you didn't give a shit to read it and instead looked for an opportunity to attack a fellow DUer.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
20. Ah, well, another the bosses know best so just shut up post.
Hail Caesar!
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. Another ill-informed responder who can't be bothered to read the post.
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #20
28. You got punk'd
The first tag on the DK diary is snark.
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Arkana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 03:13 PM
Response to Original message
27. This article is unironically hilarious.
It's like when TIME Magazine named "You" the greatest person in the world, we all took it to heart.
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notesdev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
30. That's a lot of effort
for what boils down to an ad hominem argument.

Is it really that much to ask to ask for a nominee who isn't a member of the elites' cabal? A normal type person with common sense?

If you can't figure out why some of us have a problem with one of Larry Summers' buddies being put on the Supreme Court, the problem is with you, not us!
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WeekendWarrior Donating Member (849 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
33. +10,000
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
34. After all the bullshit, rationalizations, excuses, cover stories, denials, etc....
The Supreme Court WILL be MORE Conservative with the Kagan appointment than it was with JP Stevens.
Case Closed.
The Democratic Party Leadership...helping to move the USA further to the RIGHT.

"By their works, you will know them."
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. Yes, because she's not you.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. No.
Because she is well to The Right of JP Stevens on several very important issues, especially the Unitary Executive.
It has absolutely nothing to do with me....or you.
It has everything to do with the Democratic Party Leadership and the ever rightward shift of the Democratic Party.


"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans."---Paul Wellstone


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NeedleCast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
36. Love it - Spot on
OP will recieve tons of unrecs though.
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