Scientists accuse Obama over oil spill. Expert claims NOAA is guilty of a 'catastrophic failure'

(edited for copyright purposes-proud patriot Moderator Democratic Underground)




Scientists accuse Obama over oil spill
Expert claims NOAA is guilty of a 'catastrophic failure'
By Justin Gillis
May 20, 2010

Tensions between the Obama administration and the scientific community over the gulf oil spill are escalating, with prominent oceanographers accusing the government of failing to conduct an adequate scientific analysis of the damage and of allowing BP to obscure the spill’s true scope.

The scientists assert that the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and other agencies have been slow to investigate the magnitude of the spill and the damage it is causing in the deep ocean.

They are especially concerned about getting a better handle on problems that may be occurring from large plumes of oil droplets that appear to be spreading beneath the ocean surface.

The scientists point out that in the month since the Deepwater Horizon oil rig exploded, the government has failed to make public a single test result on water from the deep ocean.

And the scientists say the administration has been too reluctant to demand an accurate analysis of how many gallons of oil are flowing into the sea from the gushing oil well.

Please read the full article at:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37248587/ns/us_news-the_new_york_times//

Come on now President Obama. Step in and put BP officials in their place. I mean, they don't dictate to the government now .... right?

on something like this? Seriously I just can't see why BP is allowed to make any research decisions at all on this disaster. It is no longer about their business, it's a matter of national security and life and death.

not deplete it.

don't see any of these politicians wanting to take a hit from their "real" constituents. We will still vote for them, because we have no other choice, however I just don't see them biting the hand that feeds them. It takes a lot of cajohnes to stand up to their big donors. Seems to me political capital isn't wasted on us. I did forget the sarcasm tag.

Why else would they be withholding information???

This spill should make us all change our lifestyles. Coming here and complaining won't do much, but if we all commit to using 1/2 the gas we usually use in a week, we can make changes.

He was positively ashen.

He knows he has to bite the hand that feeds him or else he WILL be tarred and feathered by the people.

In any event he knows his own career is ending because of this spill.

to roost, karma bites and all that. Jindal went to the marshes and brought back pictures, OK a photo op. Maybe he's got what it takes to keep biting The Hand. He can't have it both ways now. Maybe if he bites hard enough, the people will come along. That's the only way to go. Not sure if he's smart enough.

If he were to pick up a pitchfork a whole lot of people would follow him.

(CBS/AP) It may be the most disturbing site yet: the first heavy sludge now oozing into the marshes of Louisiana as the slick continues to grow in size out in the gulf.

CBS News correspondent Kelly Cobiella reports it's an ominous sight. The oil is thick and black and stretches about a quarter mile down a beach. It goes beyond the booms into the sensitive marsh lands which are home to migratory birds.

Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal flew over it Tuesday.

"This wasn't just sheen, we were seeing heavy oil out there," Jindal said. "This wasn't just tar balls. It shows you how quick the oil showed up."

When CBS News tried to reach the beach, covered in oil, a boat of BP contractors with two Coast Guard officers on board told us to turn around under threat of arrest. Coast Guard officials said they are looking into the incident.

-snip

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/05/18/national/main6496846.shtml

If these coast guardsmen are acting w/o authority then they need to be publicly disciplined. :mad: YOu are correct BBI, President Obama needs to step in, now.

Hypocrites, all of them.

Obama needs to step up. Yesterday.

I mean couldn't they intimidate Jindal better than that?

What's he, a MAVERIK now....?! :silly: Hasn't got the Palin charisma...needs a TV show or somethin.

the one with the dying eagle stuck to his back???

OMG!:wow:

they don't own the fucking ocean!

i think i'll call the white house or something. for all the good it'll do.

please forgive me for that lapse. of course "they" own the ocean. and all the rest of it. i'll go quietly now.

there is no reason not to allow scientists to establish the rate of leaking oil. It seems like capitulation to BP. Which is ridiculous.

Authority enough for you?

that henhouse has been run by foxes for so long the birds have started growing fur.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/03/noaa-warned-interior-was_n_561615.html?view=print

National Oceanic & Atmospheric Administration officials last fall warned the Department of Interior, which regulates offshore oil drilling, that it was dramatically underestimating the frequency of offshore oil spills and was dangerously understating the risk and impacts a major spill would have on coastal residents.

NOAA is the nation's lead ocean resource agency, and the warnings came in its response to a draft of the Obama Administration's offshore oil drilling plans. The comments were Web-published in October by the whistle-blowing group, Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility (PEER).

But NOAA's views were largely brushed aside as Obama went ahead and announced on March 31 that he would open vast swaths of American coastal waters to offshore drilling -- a plan now very much in doubt as a blown-out BP well in the Gulf of Mexico spews out an estimated 200,000 gallons of oil daily, for the 13th straight day.

The memo, which NOAA Administrator Jane Lubchenco wrote was based on the agency's "extensive science, management and stewardship expertise related to oceans, coasts and marine ecosystem" recommended that Interior conduct "a more complete analysis of the potential human dimensions of offshore production."

Why are they letting BP run a disaster recovery anyway?

They're threatening reporters on the beach with arrest. They told the researchers who discovered the underwater plume to stop talking to the press. They're allowing BP to use dispersants that are outlawed everywhere else (BP has an interest in the manufacturer), and fisherman working on the clean-up are getting sick from it.

for hiring the staffers at noaa and ran their daily operations.

maybe obama should sued bp for the information or even fined them...does any one think bp would have complied?

someone always needs to blame someone when everyone failed in their duties.

Just because Bush didn't execute our laws and regulations doesn't mean Obama gets a pass. They've had more than a year to clean out the corruption of the Department of Interior but it was allowed to continue as is by the equally corrupt Salazar, Obama's choice.
Plenty of blame to go around on this one:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/03/noaa-warned-interior-was_n_561615.html

seems like it might be getting the same courtesy from the Obama administration.

Any scientist *with* equipment can't be stopped from sending it down. But BP is not allowing anyone to use it's equipment.

You'd lose the expertise of plenty of people within BP who want to help. People who are uniquely qualified.

planet as the rest of us??

Unless of course you think that allowing BP to continue to have control makes it politically expedient for the POTUS.

and it does so with inaccurate reporting.

Should BP be telling us more? Absolutely.

Should BP use the help of as many good scientists as they can? Absolutely.

Why aren't they? No one knows. Many have suspicions. I have my own.

Is Obama doing nothing or too little as the article and others suggest? I highly doubt it.

There are plenty of good reasons why Obama may not have forced a "takeover" of BP on this. And we don't actually know that the Military and Coast Guard don't already have some operational authority there, which I suspect they might.

That I take issue with inaccuracy of reporting when it's used to attack a Democrat.

That falls on the policy Obama sets.

and it would also mean losing the aid of BP to clean up the mess.

Do you really want to make an adversarial relationship with most likely the only people who have the expertise and capability to fix it? Are you going to put a gun to their heads?

And NO, I do not believe as you do, that BP is the only entity with the expertise and capability to fix it.

If fixing it means months of drilling a relief well, there are others that can do that.

wants that.

By allowing BP to continue to "fix" the problem they will be able to do many things.

1) BP is interested in salvaging the oil and the well first and capping or blocking it second. Whereas a governmental agency would probably look for the fastest and most expedient way to end the gush of oil from this thing.

2) When it comes time to settle up and for BP to pay damages this extended nauseating exercise in oil salvaging will be put forward as BP putting great resources and wealth into trying to fix the problem and BP will use this to reduce their legal liability and diminish fines and suites for damages.

3) By preventing scientists from NOAA from accessing this site and collecting data independently we mostly have to take BP at its word, which has already proven false. ie. Their initial absurd estimates of 5000 barrels a day leaking forth when estimates derived from a leaked video and the spread of the oil put it upwards of 100,000 barrels a day.



Ok, to make it perfectly clear, no I do not blame Obama for this but HELL YES! I think he could be doing a lot more to get this problem fixed.

I do not accept the proposition that BP is the expert in sealing up this hole and even if they had slightly more expertise they are tainted by virtue of the fact that they have a vested interest in collecting the oil. Provided they can collect more than the 75 million dollars that is outlined in the 1990 Oil Pollution Act as maximum economic liability then they have a vested interest in leaving the oil hole wide open and collecting whatever they can manage. The desire for their executives to do so is augmented by the loss of the platform itself.

There is no reason to believe the presidents advisors and lawyers do not know this so he should be taking serious actions in this case.

consensus building should be right in the middle of this.

We have a world-wide disaster unfolding! :wow: :nuke: :wow:

But we don't know much of what's going on behind the scenes. And I do take issue with that. The public, the world should be better informed as to what's going on.

All we know is that several attempts to stop the oil from gushing out have failed and that there is no end in site.

If they don't have a plan, then it would be great if they told us how fucked we really might be. And yes, they should be bringing in the help of as many good scientists as they can.

Thanks for clarifying. :hi:

shameful

But then again, you always look for a way to attack Obama and those who support him.

No matter how egregious, they must and shall be defended by their supporters.

Government is the crowd control subsidiary of Capital.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/14/us/14oil.html



BP Invited them... then cancelled.

That is disgusting.

BP should be calling no shots. They are turning the Gulf into a tar pit.

I want the government to do it's freaking job and oversight the hell out of these companies.

Yet we are told that is impossible. pfffttt.

The drilling was WAY outside the 12 mile territorial sea limit. Plus BP is a British owned company.They are responsible for EVERYTHING. However, we cannot legally force them to do anything.

how bad this spill is that IS going to hit AMERICAN shores!

They can be responsible financially, but they don't have to be allowed to order our Coast Guard around or call the shots for OUR COUNTRY.

They can tell the CG to go to hell anywhere out of the 12 mile range.

that BP would just walk away with all their oh so wonderful expertise.

at this time.

I will have to go look up the law, but our Government does have the legal authority to control the response to this catastrophe.

According to Maritime Law.If she was flying the British Flag,then the aftermath is up to them.

they are obedient to US law and the United States of America, not the other way around.

Plus I wasn't aware BP was the UK.

On a lighter note - Can you ship me some seafood chowder from Legal Seafood down to GA?

Excuses, escuses and a ton of excuses for inaction.

n/t

Otherwise they wouldn't even have needed a permit. For more information on the different types of "territorial" sea limits see: http://www.gc.noaa.gov/gcil_maritime.html

Exclusive Economic Zone

Each coastal State may claim an Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) beyond and adjacent to its territorial sea that extends seaward up to 200 nm from its baselines (or out to a maritime boundary with another coastal State). Within its EEZ, a coastal State has: (a) sovereign rights for the purpose of exploring, exploiting, conserving and managing natural resources, whether living or nonliving, of the seabed and subsoil and the superjacent waters and with regard to other activities for the economic exploitation and exploration of the zone, such as the production of energy from the water, currents and winds; (b) jurisdiction as provided for in international law with regard to the establishment and use of artificial islands, installations, and structures, marine scientific research, and the protection and preservation of the marine environment, and (c) other rights and duties provided for under international law.

The U.S. claimed a 200 nm EEZ in 1983 (Presidential Proclamation No. 5030 of March 10, 1983). The U.S. EEZ overlaps its 12 nm - 24 nm contiguous zone.

Not to proud to admit I didn't have all the facts.

"The story is wrong"? That's all ya got? No link, no quotes, just a flat statement that our scientists are lying and BP is just looking out for its equipment?


Try harder. Catastrophic failure.

I'm having trouble finding the part about BP saying no because they don't want scientists to use BP's equipment.

This quote doesn't even remotely support your assertion. In fact it totally contradicts it. BP was able to stop scientists from sending down the scientists' equipment by rescinding an "invitation" into our own waters and they have the full backing of the BP Coast Guard to stop people.

Think about it. BP has no authority to stop a scientist from going 1 mile below sea level. But how many scientists have equipment to do that? Navy subs can't even go that far down.

No one is stopping anyone from helping on their own. It simply isn't technically possible.

But BP has unique equipment capable of monitoring on what's going on down that far. Scientists would need to use that equipment.

BP isn't the only game in town when it comes to deep water robotic subs.

I don't need to *think* about it. Our tax dollars bought multimillion dollar equipment for our scientists to monitor and test this sort of thing.

Your assertions are bunk and you know it. Very disappointing.

BP then rescinded the offer.

What's stopping them from going on their own?

website touts its "Archaeology in Deepwater"

I am sure they have the equipment. Why can't they go? Come on Bernie, tell us, why can't they just go on their own??

behind the scenes to get BP to work with scientists.

Here's a link for you: http://journals.democraticunderground.com/berni_mccoy/990

Markey is a democrat, but this isn't something you can give credit to Obama for.

It has been well reported that the Obama Admin was in cahoots with keeping the feed or even video of the leak out of the public domain.

The WHOI has an entire fleet of deep-sea exploration vehicles and their own National Deep Submergence Facility (NDSF).

You're just posting nonesense and I notice you're all over this thread in a frenzy.

To clean house in ALL agencies staffed by Bush appointees. He should have done it in his first months of office, of course.

We are screwed.

Today he'll be rapt with the Mexican President telling us how we should discipline Arizona and become one big United States of America and Mexico. :grr:

He should have cleaned house and he should never have appointed bush-wannabes to run the Executive Branch. If he can't learn this lesson from this catastrophe, he won't learn it.

this is unacceptable.

What right do they have to keep anyone out. Whatever happened to freedom of the seas?

and really, what good does "knowing" how much oil is being spilled at this point ?:(

It's like standing around haranguing fireman, and demanding to know the exact temperature in the fire they are trying to put out..

And to your second point:

You cannot invent a proper solution without knowing the magnitude of the problem.

how many barrels are leaking, what matters is that someone can stop it.

You can't fix it unless you know the magnitude of the problem.

But let me clue you in with some common sense. They know how bad it is and they don't want us to know.

Get it. BP and the Government does NOT want YOU to know.

who analyze the video--and act accordingly.

I mean, what the hell are we suppose to do with hard facts and knowledge regarding this spill. Act on them?

Ignorance is always the better option.

Thanks for your valuable contribution.

all we can do is try to be heard.

I don't see our side organizing petitions or phone banks. We need to push.

Give me a break.

18 months is almost half his term in office.

Obama twiddles his thumbs and does nothing while southeastern Louisiana and the surrounding environment dies. Gee where have I seen this all before?!!!

:cry:


/sarcasm/

:cry:


/sarcasm/

And it wants it's talking point back.

BP withholds oil spill facts — and government lets it
By Marisa Taylor and Renee Schoof | McClatchy Newspapers
May 18, 2010

WASHINGTON — BP, the company in charge of the rig that exploded last month in the Gulf of Mexico, hasn't publicly divulged the results of tests on the extent of workers' exposure to evaporating oil or from the burning of crude over the gulf, even though researchers say that data is crucial in determining whether the conditions are safe.

Moreover, the company isn't monitoring the extent of the spill and only reluctantly released videos of the spill site that could give scientists a clue to the amount of the oil in gulf.

BP's role as the primary source of information has raised questions about whether the government should intervene to gather such data and to publicize it and whether an adequate cleanup can be accomplished without the details of crude oil spreading across the gulf.

Under pressure from senators, BP released four videos Tuesday, but it hasn't agreed to better monitoring.

The company also hasn't publicly released air sampling for oil spill workers although Occupational Safety and Health Administration, the agency in charge of monitoring compliance with worker safety regulations, is relying on the information and has urged it to do so.

"It is not ours to publish," said Dean Wingo, OSHA's assistant regional administrator who oversees Louisiana. "We are working with (BP) and encouraging them to post the data so that it is publicly available."


Toby Odone, a BP spokesman, said the company is sharing the data with "legitimate interested parties," which include government agencies and the private companies assisting in the cleanup. When asked whether the information can be released publicly, he responded, "Why would one do it? Any parties with a legitimate interest can have access to it."

Read the full article at:


http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/05/18/94415/bps-secrecy-keep-facts-on-gulf.html


-------------------------------------------

BP’s Permission Not Needed for Feds to Monitor Spill Effects
By: Cynthia Kouril
May 19, 2010

OK, this is just bullpucky. The government is doing all sorts of handwringing about how it can’t force BP to disclose information about what’s actually going on in the gulf.

This makes it sound like the federal government has no power in this situation to get information out to the general public, bullpucky! Oh, wait, I said that already.

The EPA, the Coast Guard and OSHA don’t need anybody’s permission to take air or water samples. They don’t need anybody’s permission to ask those shrimp boat captains to wear a second air quality monitoring patch and turn those back to OSHA for analysis. They don’t need anybody’s permission to send their own remote cameras or submarines down to take pictures of the plume—at least NASA seems to “get” this, the space station folks have been taking photos of the oil spill without waiting for BP’s blessing.
BP may control the data from the patches on the shrimp boater’s sleeves and it may control its own data — which could still be pried loose with either an administrative or criminal subpoena, and probably should be — but nothing prevents the government from doing its own sampling. The notion that the federal agencies responsible for environmental, health and safety are somehow helpless bystanders is just nuts, or bullpucky. In fact, EPA, like NASA has already begun its own efforts.

Right now, there damn well better be somebody opening up a case file into violations of NEPA and Clean Water Act violations. And depending on how much particulate matter the controlled burning is putting in the air and how the VOC’s are evaporating, the Clean Air Act as well. The Federal Government’s response is being sold as an “all hands on deck” response. There is no excuse for this feigned helplessness.

http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/49237

Yes, they did.



EPA Response to BP Spill in the Gulf of Mexico

the vessels are there

the equipment is there

the expertise is there

but no one is moving.

yup

Here's a hint: it ain't by, of and for the people.