There's some weird stuff going on in regard to the oil gusher crisis.

Obama's administration tells BP to stop using the toxic dispersant until they provide in-depth reports to prove why other alternatives are not possible. BP sends back a brief letter saying, "We looked at other alternatives. Nothing else will work", then ignores the order and continues using the toxic dispersant WITHOUT submitting the in-depth analysis that they were ordered to provide.

Obama's administration orders a moratorium on all new drilling project licenses and environmental waivers for the Gulf...and that order is ignored. At least seven new permits and five new environmental waivers have been issued since Obama ordered the freeze.

Yeah those are only two incidents, but when is the last time that ONE direct order from a President was basically IGNORED...much less two this close together? What the hell is going on?!

:wtf:

perhaps historians will look back one day and realize this was the point when the corporations decided they no longer had any use for even the facade of a democratic system of government in the United States. All political systems end eventually; perhaps it's our turn now.

And seize their executives? NO TERRORIST HAS EVER DONE TO THIS NATION WHAT THOSE BASTARDS HAVE DONE.

I suspect that in order to pay for the cleanup and all the unintended consequences, we would need to immediately freeze their assets so no "bonuses" or "dividends" could be paid to stockholders, and then seize their assets to pay for cleanup and liability.

I think someone who was employed as a fisherman is entitled to compensation for life equal to what he/she would have earned fishing. And I think every hotel on the beach deserves to be paid in full for every room that would have been rented for the next 50 years if there were nice sandy beaches instead of oily gloop.

And on and on, for everyone who has in any way been affected by the oil.

if terrorists HAD blown up the rig... and all this damage was due to UBL, we'd send 100,000 troops to a desert to kill people.

If it's BP that does it... they BOW to them.

they've done this to the whole world, not just to us :(

One of my co-workers referred to this disaster as "a crime against humanity" and I believe he is right.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8392578&mesg_id=8392578


global corporate dictatorship

More the reason we should shy away from Libertarian candidates.

Definition of a Libertarian: someone who doesn't believe in tomorrow.

What are you talking about? BP ignoring what we ask them to do is a freedom?

We are being killed by corporations being treated legally as persons. That's not one of our freedoms but a friggin' clerical error. Law makers pretending that is real is what is killing us.

Because someone interpreted it in its broadest manner. Hence, The freer the society, the more ammunition they have to destroy from within.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/05/24/497575/oil-permits-keep-flowing.html

There are others too. If they all originate from one source then it may not necessarily be true.

I posted it using the original source (NY Times).

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/24/us/24moratorium.html?hp

:evilgrin:

:cry:

appearing to include the folks at the White House. When the pigs at BP thumbed their noses at Obama, it pretty much made him quite peeved - and he should be peeved - BP is doing a crappy assed job and should have admitted they need great help and had no idea what to do and invited in the world's top scientists, engineers, nuclear physicists & the USGS and heck - anyone but the morons at BP that caused this to happen!

I just hope for no earthquakes around it, and BP not to screw it up any worse!

Why has BP not admitted they need help? Because they would have to pay for the help and protecting their money is job 1 right now. He needs to come out with both barrels blazing against these assholes.

Big Health Insurers, and based on the manner in which he came out blazingly (NOT!) to see that it wasn't the Big Banks that profitted from Bernanke/Geithner machinations, I don't hold out much hope.

CorpoRATe control is corporate control. Obama is a spokesperson, and a shill, and I cannot see anything in any of his actions over the last eighteen months that give me hope.

Oh of course, he did SCOLD the Big Bad Banksters late last year.

Maybe he will SCOLD BP soon?

Maybe he will even SCOLD BP executives hard enough that they cry a tear or two.

But that won't make much difference as they trundle off under the weight of all their profiteering from this mess.

Obama was not my first or second choice he was the last choice I knew he was not the one since the M$M pegged him as the front runner while marginalizing Kucinich my hope!

but do NOTHING. Then they say they are going to do something, order BP to stop using the dispersant that is tied to their Chairman of the Board, and they continue and again nothing happens. He's a joke, until he actually cares enough to do something and actually enforce it.

x(

goes without saying.

The military is in charge in this country. That's the fact. And they could care less about the environment. Avatar is an allegory for what is going on right here on this planet right now.

What a sad commentary on this presidency.

first administration, and what does one puppy know? :P

when FDR was president and I can only second you post.

http://www.wbrz.com/news/senator-wants-dispersant-suit-filed/

Corexit mainly used to disguise the true extent of the spill......



"Serious health concerns loom over clean-up efforts
Though clean-up efforts have been under way for weeks, BP remains silent about the serious health effects upon workers and volunteers of the chemicals and procedures being employed. Concerns are mounting over the health effects of “flaring” on spill workers, the process of burning the gas after it has been piped to the surface of the water, exposure to chemical dispersants used to break up the oil in the water, and exposure to burning crude oil as it rests on the water’s surface. No public entity is currently monitoring the health effects of the spill, only scientists contracted to BP.

McClatchy reported that BP, with the full complicity of the Obama administration, continues to conceal safety data as proprietary information. The company has not released results from air sampling tests to the public. The Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) has access to the data, and has “urged to do so.” Since the data was collected by BP contractors, an OSHA regional administrator said, “It isn’t ours to publish.” A BP spokesperson stated that the safety information has been shared with the “legitimate interested parties.” Director of the worker training program at the National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences, Joseph Hughes, told McClatchy he didn’t think “anyone has seen much of that data at all.”

The chemical dispersant used by BP in the Gulf of Mexico, Corexit 9500, known to be more toxic and less effective than other approved mixtures, has been deployed in large amounts and at great depths in an attempt to break up the oil billowing out of the well head, and on the surface of the Gulf. The environmental effects of its unprecedented use at great depths are not known. Additionally, the contents of dispersants are treated as trade secrets, and so it is currently unknown what exactly is being pumped into the Gulf in great quantities, much less its long-term impact.

Corexit 9500 was reportedly banned in Britain for use in oil spills over a decade ago because of concerns over its environmental impact. There are also reports that health problems among workers involved in the cleanup following the 1989 Exxon-Valdez spill in Alaska, including respiratory, nervous system, liver, kidney and blood disorders, were linked to an earlier version of the Corexit dispersant.

On May 19, the chairman and president of BP American, Lamar McKay, was asked by a member of the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee why the company had decided to use such a toxic dispersant. The next day, the Environmental Protection Agency ordered BP to use a chemical dispersant less toxic than the Corexit 9500 currently being used to disperse the crude.

The company issued a statement over the weekend flatly rejecting the EPA’s demand: “Based on the information that is available today, BP continues to believe that Corexit was the best and most appropriate choice at the time when the incident occurred, and that Corexit remains the best option for subsea application.” Recent reports indicate that over 600,000 gallons of Corexit 9500 have been poured onto the surface of the Gulf, and 55,000 in deep water.

In the course of questioning McKay, major health issues came to light. New York Democratic Representative Jerrold Nadler stated, “Corexit is 2.61 in toxicity, which means it’s highly toxic. It has an effectiveness of 54.7 in the south Louisiana crude-oil spill. is 7.9 toxicity, which means it’s a lot less toxic, but it has an effectiveness rate of 100%. Mare Clean 200, its toxicity rate is 42, which is much, much better. Its effectiveness rate is 84, compared to Corexit at 54.” Another representative voiced concerns about the effects on humans of eating fish contaminated with toxic dispersant. No systematic attention has been given to safety—either in the operation of the well before the explosion, or in regard to environmental questions afterwards, as BP continues to withhold key information.

The ill effects of the clean-up efforts organized by BP may last long after those of the oil itself. On May 11, John T. Everett, formerly a climate change expert with NOAA who now operates a consulting firm to fisheries and ocean-related businesses, addressed a Senate subcommittee on Environment and Public Works. While he acknowledged “the importance of dealing with here and now threats to our sea-life and to ourselves,” Everett warned that “even the oil damage will eventually heal... The flow of chemical materials into our waters is another matter. There are too many insidious contaminants entering our estuaries, causing genetic harm and poisoning our birds, turtles, and seafood.”


http://www.wsws.org/articles/2010/may2010/gulf-m24.shtml


"Oil is toxic to marine life. Dispersant is toxic to marine life. According to Greenpeace, together, their toxicity exceeds the sum of their parts. The people running the spill response for BP are geologists, Greenpeace has called for biologists to be added to the response team..

...This dispersant was known to kill 25% of all organisms in it's path since the Exxon Valdez oil dump 20 years ago. BP has dumped 600,000 gallons of the Corexit 9500 on the surface and 55,000 gallons on the sea bottom......

The dispersant goes by the trade name "Corexit." It's supposed to be a pun on the words "corrects it." Marine conservationist and oil spill expert Rick Steiner says “Corexit” is called “Hidez-It” by insiders because its purpose is not to correct but deceive. These facts have been known for decades. Corexit was banned in Great Britian over a decade ago. Today the EPA finally ordered a change to a less toxic dispersant.
"

http://www.examiner.com/x-4002-Green-Living-Examiner~y2010m5d21-Oil-dispersant-Corexit-known-to-be-toxic-20-years-ago-videos

chemicals for handling oil spills.

http://www.epa.gov/emergencies/content/ncp/product_schedule.htm

Several Corexit products are listed.

There is so much hysteria and false information circulating. It's just ridiculous.

"Serious health concerns loom over clean-up efforts
Though clean-up efforts have been under way for weeks, BP remains silent about the serious health effects upon workers and volunteers of the chemicals and procedures being employed. Concerns are mounting over the health effects of “flaring” on spill workers, the process of burning the gas after it has been piped to the surface of the water, exposure to chemical dispersants used to break up the oil in the water, and exposure to burning crude oil as it rests on the water’s surface. No public entity is currently monitoring the health effects of the spill, only scientists contracted to BP.

McClatchy reported that BP, with the full complicity of the Obama administration, continues to conceal safety data as proprietary information. The company has not released results from air sampling tests to the public. The Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) has access to the data, and has “urged to do so.” Since the data was collected by BP contractors, an OSHA regional administrator said, “It isn’t ours to publish.” A BP spokesperson stated that the safety information has been shared with the “legitimate interested parties.” Director of the worker training program at the National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences, Joseph Hughes, told McClatchy he didn’t think “anyone has seen much of that data at all.”

The chemical dispersant used by BP in the Gulf of Mexico, Corexit 9500, known to be more toxic and less effective than other approved mixtures, has been deployed in large amounts and at great depths in an attempt to break up the oil billowing out of the well head, and on the surface of the Gulf. The environmental effects of its unprecedented use at great depths are not known. Additionally, the contents of dispersants are treated as trade secrets, and so it is currently unknown what exactly is being pumped into the Gulf in great quantities, much less its long-term impact.

Corexit 9500 was reportedly banned in Britain for use in oil spills over a decade ago because of concerns over its environmental impact. There are also reports that health problems among workers involved in the cleanup following the 1989 Exxon-Valdez spill in Alaska, including respiratory, nervous system, liver, kidney and blood disorders, were linked to an earlier version of the Corexit dispersant.

On May 19, the chairman and president of BP American, Lamar McKay, was asked by a member of the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee why the company had decided to use such a toxic dispersant. The next day, the Environmental Protection Agency ordered BP to use a chemical dispersant less toxic than the Corexit 9500 currently being used to disperse the crude.

The company issued a statement over the weekend flatly rejecting the EPA’s demand: “Based on the information that is available today, BP continues to believe that Corexit was the best and most appropriate choice at the time when the incident occurred, and that Corexit remains the best option for subsea application.” Recent reports indicate that over 600,000 gallons of Corexit 9500 have been poured onto the surface of the Gulf, and 55,000 in deep water.

In the course of questioning McKay, major health issues came to light. New York Democratic Representative Jerrold Nadler stated, “Corexit is 2.61 in toxicity, which means it’s highly toxic. It has an effectiveness of 54.7 in the south Louisiana crude-oil spill. is 7.9 toxicity, which means it’s a lot less toxic, but it has an effectiveness rate of 100%. Mare Clean 200, its toxicity rate is 42, which is much, much better. Its effectiveness rate is 84, compared to Corexit at 54.” Another representative voiced concerns about the effects on humans of eating fish contaminated with toxic dispersant. No systematic attention has been given to safety—either in the operation of the well before the explosion, or in regard to environmental questions afterwards, as BP continues to withhold key information.

The ill effects of the clean-up efforts organized by BP may last long after those of the oil itself. On May 11, John T. Everett, formerly a climate change expert with NOAA who now operates a consulting firm to fisheries and ocean-related businesses, addressed a Senate subcommittee on Environment and Public Works. While he acknowledged “the importance of dealing with here and now threats to our sea-life and to ourselves,” Everett warned that “even the oil damage will eventually heal... The flow of chemical materials into our waters is another matter. There are too many insidious contaminants entering our estuaries, causing genetic harm and poisoning our birds, turtles, and seafood.”


http://www.wsws.org/articles/2010/may2010/gulf-m24.shtm...


"Oil is toxic to marine life. Dispersant is toxic to marine life. According to Greenpeace, together, their toxicity exceeds the sum of their parts. The people running the spill response for BP are geologists, Greenpeace has called for biologists to be added to the response team..

...This dispersant was known to kill 25% of all organisms in it's path since the Exxon Valdez oil dump 20 years ago. BP has dumped 600,000 gallons of the Corexit 9500 on the surface and 55,000 gallons on the sea bottom......

The dispersant goes by the trade name "Corexit." It's supposed to be a pun on the words "corrects it." Marine conservationist and oil spill expert Rick Steiner says “Corexit” is called “Hidez-It” by insiders because its purpose is not to correct but deceive. These facts have been known for decades. Corexit was banned in Great Britian over a decade ago. Today the EPA finally ordered a change to a less toxic dispersant.
"

http://www.examiner.com/x-4002-Green-Living-Examiner~y2...

There are enough reports of it being dangerous that it should be banned.

By attempting to defend its use, despite these reports, you are doing what BP did when they claimed their drilling policies were safe, despite all the warnings that they were not. 11 people died because BP lied, and because of those who defended and rationalized their claims for them.

BP has zero credibility. And it appears that our government gets its information from corporations like them.

It would not have been difficult to assign to the NAVY the job of being prepared for something like this, to create our own experts, all it takes is education and experience.

Instead this government ignored BP's abysmal safety and human rights record and left the national security of this country in their hands. Because a threat like this is a national security threat.

Either we are wholly owned by Big Business, in which case it explains the lack of preparedness for such a threat. Or we have had the most incompetent government for decades now, in the history of modern democratic nations.

I think it is the former as no government is this incompentent.

nt

via NSAM 271. This was not just ignored, they fought it tooth and nail, by upper-level NASA management. So cooperative space mission never happened, and we got a "space race" against Russia instead (after JFK was dead and Khrushchev was deposed).

Pres. Nixon does resurrect the idea via Apollo-Soyuz almost 10 years later. Strange how NASA voiced no objections under the conservative President, yet they were dead-set against cooperative space missions under Kennedy.

BP and Transocean execs need to be stripped of their assets and hauled off to prison for what they've done and neglected to do. Then whichever administration bureaucrat is in charge of granting drilling licenses and waivers needs to be fired and investigated for disobeying a direct order from the President. A message needs to be sent that this kind of behavior is taken VERY seriously--and dealt with harshly.

Ok, 99.99% of the world would cheer.

the rest of their lives.

they should clean up the saltwater marshes that are incredibly rich and diverse ecosystems. at least till BP came along ...

Does that sound like something Obama might say?

Otherwise the lesson learned is going to be that you can ignore the President and his administration without consequences.

Remember impeachment "off the table?"

other than the starkness of it all. This illustrated the true power relationship of Capital and Government.

Are we ready to kill Capitalism yet?

(1) This is a sign that a global shadow government exists -- the mysterious flight of nuclear weapons, piloted by our Air Force is another example.

(2) The world really is going to come to an end in 2012 and someone is hoarding all the resources in order to escape this planet, not worried about the mess they're going to leave behind.

(1) and (2) are not mutually exclusive.

why should they comply with any order?

It would certainly appear so.

yup

:sarcasm:

has the Common Good as their primary interest.

DOJ will not bring charges. (NYT)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x537950

though i'm sure the party loyalists will simply attack the messenger instead of commenting on the message:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXL998q7skI

:)

for the video.

everything he said.

Great video, thanks for posting.

Honestly, sums up a lot of my thoughts for the last year+ now. One disappointment after another.

I've never much of an activist before, at least not in the sense of protesting, organizing, etc, etc... but at this moment in time I'm ready.

I think we need some massive, massive anti-war protests (or just anti establishment for that matter).

Just my thoughts. :)

another smiling lackey to them. And Obama has been playing that part well.

How many times did we read about Congress subpoenaing these two about illegal wiretapping and the Plame outing only to have them thumb their noses at Congress?

Toxic dispersant:

http://www.epa.gov/bpspill/dispersants/5-21bp-response.pdf

Read the pdf before you comment. Summary - there are supply issues and questions about the toxicity of the one that IS available.

Drilling Moratorium:
...

Asked about the permits and waivers, officials at the Department of the Interior and the Minerals Management Service, which regulates drilling, pointed to public statements by Interior Secretary Ken Salazar, reiterating that the agency had no intention of stopping all new oil and gas production in the gulf.

Department of the Interior officials said in a statement that the moratorium was meant only to halt permits for the drilling of new wells. It was not meant to stop permits for new work on existing drilling projects like the Deepwater Horizon.

But critics say the moratorium has been violated or too narrowly defined to prevent another disaster.

...

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/24/us/24moratorium.html?hp

This is a little more than splitting hairs - you really should post less spin in these highly recced posts - it makes DU look reactionary and not committed to facts.

...or?

Do you have a taste for toxic chemicals? Do you enjoy them?

I hate it when this place goes all lemming-y. It used to be this was a good place to vet the truth from the fiction - now I'm afraid to repeat anything I read here for fear of being embarrassed by a factual counter-argument. Keep up the good work; you're doing a public service, HM.

Nothing else matters.

More proof that the invisible government is really in charge and the elected government is basically powerless to affect them.

the scenes they are doing another. :shrug: I've noticed that when we get good news out of this Administration it seems some days or weeks later the media reports that the opposite was done of whatever policy that most Dems would be happy about. Is it the media spinning or is the Administration putting out positive actions to please the people while knowing that what it's really doing will be reported too late for most Americans to pay attention?

until after Obama's last campaign, when Congress will take a look at this piece of shit, and be embarrassed by their predecessors malfeasance, and trash the whole thing. In the meantime think of it as three-dimensional mopping up.

And while the powers that be appoint committees, commissions, and spar over who's accountable, the oil leak is spewing and contaminating the environment. Kinda like fiddling while Rome burns. What a disgrace.

any government :shrug: That seems to be what's going on.

he isn't in control. It's kind of like saying we are going to pull out of Iraq, but leave 50,000 troops to maintain the 58 bases we have there.

while the TARP, TALF, etc kept piling trillions of debt on taxpayers (out of the spotlight).

And we thought the British stopped making all the decisions in 1776.

We've just replaced a hereditary aristocracy with a plutocracy.

They were definitely in place planning the Pay Of Pigs Invasion before Kennedy.
How much before that I'm not sure.

that before last week the BP plan was to recover oil, not pluck leaks.

they always said the plan was to stop the leak. I don't think the plan has changed.

If you think the moratorium should be extended and all existing work stopped, say so. But don't pretend Obama is doing something underhanded.

because these are projects planned previously, but they're not existing wells. And if what Obama meant was NOT that we're going to prevent new holes from being drilled in the ground, which we know by the dates he set that it probably wasn't, then what he's saying is he's putting a 30-day moratorium on starting to plan drilling projects that can take years to get to the drilling stage. Which is, of course, completely useless and should be recognized as such by disappointed and outraged Democrats and progressives.

If this is Obama's waterloo, he deserves whatever happens to his political career because of it. The problem is, we don't deserve the consequences.

This is about BP execs and disrespectful (probably Bush-holdover) bureaucrats deliberately IGNORING Obama and refusing to obey his authority. How on earth did you interpret this as some kind of critique of the President???

:wtf:

resistance is futile.

Your oil overlords have spoken.

remember who actually runs the country, then suddenly their reaction makes sense.

And given the way the current government has dealt with corporations I'm not really shocked. This is the same government who shoveled money at wall street after they took the nation's earnings to Las Vegas and blew then on slots, and the same government who walked away from a public option for mysterious reasons.

My guess is that BP has done a cost benefit, and they figure any reprimand they are likely to get is going to effect their bottom line less than actually complying with the orders. Wouldn't it be nice if someone in Washington was willing to prove them wrong.

If Obama had grown up on the Gulf Coast maybe he would care.

The coast of Louisiana, Mississippi and part of Alabama could be RUINED forever.

If you all watch 360 Anderson Cooper on CNN you will see what the oil is doing right now. Please listen to this show on repeat and listen to Louisiana's Billy Nungesser in a southern parish. Two weeks ago was the time to have acted to prevent the deaths of the marshes and the wildlife. There was no time to waste but it was wasted.

To understand the ecological issues watch toniight's 360 with Anderson Cooper, PLEASE!

http://yamaguchy.netfirms.com/7897401/denny/denny_index.html

The world has changed a lot since it was written; but it makes me wonder if today's scenario is that much different.

I don't get the impression that they are on a very short leash.

but they are still as vile and worrisome -- and who knows if that is true, anyway?

But any number of presidents have certainly been betrayed by them --

SCOTUS helped, too.