Opinions on court ordered substance abuse classes

When one is sentenced, the court gives the defendant a list of state contracted substance abuse counseling companies. One chooses one and pays thru the ass for nothing.

Anyway, what do you all say about this counseling service showing a video of a man proclaiming that one must find God to reach sobriety? Not just the "higher power" talk, but actually saying God over and over again....

And what if this man in this video talks about the bible story of David and Goliath at length?

Does anyone else have a problem with this?

Especially if the program is pushing religion.

I once got probation with a required program for a drug charge. I called my probation officer, told him the meeting was full of losers telling war stories about drugs and it was not at all good for my rehab. He told me to forget the meetings. I rolled a fatty to celebrate. :rofl:

These classes do nothing to try to help those with real substance abuse problems.

Everybody sits around and tells their "stories".

I am convinced that it's all about the money.

I just couldn't believe that nobody else was shocked at how many times God was mentioned.

instead of doing time. They look good on paper so they get funded and in practice, they can be complete trainwrecks. Doug went to one for 8 wks to work something off and it was terrible. But it beat the alternative.

have CHANCE of succeeding unless the attendee WANTS to stop doing drugs or drinking Alcohol. If the really DO want to quit, almost any support group will work to a large extent. As to the God thing, I just don't beieve it matters.

A judge is not a doctor. That should end of the matter.

And, without a doubt, most of the "narcotics offenders" that are sent to such programs are simple marijuana smokers. Talk about "faith based"--where's the science to establish the addiction potential in the first place? :wtf:

I asked if I could attend counseling through my personal insurance company...was told NO. You must attend one of the "authorized" counseling companies that have contracts with the city/state.

So, sitting with a group of losers being lead by a dude that has had 30 hours of training is much better than one on one counseling with an educated professional. :wtf:

since most people are busted for pot, we get headlines like "Big Jump in Marijuana Treatment Admissions," which imply there is some sort of pot psychosis crisis or something when in fact it is just pot smokers trying to avoid jail.

better than jail

This is just more evidence of the complete failure of our prison system. Judges are using these programs out of a frustration with the prison system.

If our prison system was a social program, the right wing would be screaming bloody murder. It does little to serve justice, society, or the criminals. Substance abuse is predominately a medical/mental problem and needs to be treated as such. Underlying criminal activity extending from that problem needs to be handled separately.

because they own them along with privatized probation service companies and private prisons.

There was a recent example of systems abuse in PA, where two judges sent large numbers of youths to "reform schools," primarily for minor offenses that did not warrent probation. These private facilities gave the two thugs, er, judges literally millions of dollars in kickbacks. That is a very real and surprisingly common thing these days. Perhaps not surprising, considering that jails/prisons are the #1 growth industry in many states.

The vast majority of people sentenced in my area, in regard to substance-related offenses, either opt for incarceration, or the route that includes being evaluated by an independent source, and court-ordered to follow their treatment plan. Failure to follow through brings about consequences. I've yet to see any evidence ofany kick-back in this area. Most drug treatment facilities, both public and private, are paid through insurance. There is little opportunity for more money being spent than needed -- quite the opposite.

As someone who used to work in that field, I can say that most of my coworkers held the same view that I did. If substance abuse was creating problems in one's life -- for example, DWI -- then treatment is a good option. If a person was busted for something else, and happened to be inclined to smoke pot in their home at night, or have a couple drinks, no problem, no referral for treatment.

That's my take. It requires about a month of specialized training to be certified in addiction counseling for DOD. I would surmise that county/state certification guidelines could be met with little effort. If they couldn't offer counseling for free, there should still be more reasonable options through the county. That is, hiring a part time counselor at a minimum fee.

Check with your county's social service programs?

I don't have a problem with it. If a person wants to, they can opt for a different sentence. And treatment programs can and do benefit thosewho are invested in making positive changes in their lives.

They shove in a 20 year old video, so that they can count the money.

Then the last hour is people yapping about their jail time, drug stories, "my friend once...." stories, lawyer stories, etc.

There is no TREATMENT going on. NONE.

:silly: :hug:

I just shook my head and watched the clock.

to run these types of groups. Retired a few years back. Those who were invested in changing their lives found them helpful. Those who were invested in remaining the same did not benefit.

about listening to people's stories about their drug arrests, their usage, their friends' drug arrests, their jail time, their parties, their bac, their cases, their attorneys, etc.? One dipshit actually said that she had fun in jail.

It was especially fun to watch 2 younger girls play video games on their cell phones the entire time. :-)

There is no counseling involved in these "groups". It's just a punishment and serves absolutely no purpose.

The answer would still be about the same. The person who is motivated to make changes in their life will see what is important in what you describe, and benefit from that experience. The person who is not interested in making any changes will see it only as punative, and a waste of time. By no coincidence, these contrasting outlooks allow for a very different perspective of the exact same meeting.

"There is no shame in saying you used to be a drunkard. There is shame in saying that you continue to be a drunkard, and refuse to change." -- Minister Malcolm X

So, listening to people laugh about their drug busts or discuss their attorneys or talk about going to take a toke are helping me? Watching 20 year old videos telling me to trust in God is helping me how? People talking over the "well educated counselor" helps me how? Spending an hour and a half watching the "well educated counselor" go over paperwork and count money helps me how?

I must be missing something.

Send me to a decent counselor, not a state run piece of shit class.

It is an answer. And yes, you may be missing something.

There are counselors and therapists with different abilities to work with different people, at any one facility/agency, and certainly in various ones. However, the success or failure is always the sole property of the person in treatment.

Really? Bitching about sentences, arrests, laughing about pot busts and what was gotten away with is treatment? The girl next to me playing video games on her cell phone is getting treatment? The "teacher" is fucking oblivious.

REALLY? You call that treatment?

You call a guy with 30 hours of training a counselor? Really? Hell, I graduated from HS and college....by your thinking, I should be able to launch a shuttle to the mooon!!!

Be real. Just getting a DUI doesn't mean that you're an alcoholic. That is destructive thinking.

Certainly, getting a DUI does not mean that one is an alcoholic. By no coincidence, I did not say anything of the sort. I did say that if alcohol consumption creates a problem in one's life, treatment is a good option. I think it is better than, say, incarceration for a first offense.

One of the tell-tale clues of a more deeply rooted problem is found in a person's reaction to not only treatment, but even a mere discussion of it. For example, when a person resorts to silly things such as "by your thinking..." or attempting to falsely attribute statements to another person, it suggests that they have either a difficulty in identifying or dealing with the truth.

More, if "bitching about sentences" is a waste of time, might you not use this time to focus on yourself, and what you might do to avoid things such as DUIs? Would it be unreasonable to ask if you could come up with any serious suggestion of how you might improve the group dynamics you current frown upon, and risk the possibility of making it better? Could that alone be an example of how a person can invest in treatment?

I got it, as long as you are getting paid it is ok with you? Please!

Oh wait, I just questioned you! Oh no! That means that I must have a drug problem! Beautiful how that works! How much did you get paid to hand out these pearls of wisdom by the way! Did you throw in any religious references too H2O man? Just how much did you get paid cause it sure sounds like an easy job to me! No results required and anyone who says they needs counseling obviously does, if they say they dont that means they need it even more! You are a scammer pure and simple and you may or may not realize this but you help the drug war and profit from it.

You obviously understand where I'm coming from.

Yeah, sitting for 1 1/2 hours while the joke of a "teacher", who by the way, never told me his name, counts money is so fulfilling.

I was a mental health clinic employee, who served part-time over the years as shared staff with substance abuse services. During those times, I worked with four different types of groups:

{1} MICA: adults with dual diagnoses, who were in group on an entirely voluntary basis.

{2} Jail group: going into the county jail for a group with inmates who had requested to be able to participate. In most cases, substance abuse played a significant role in their being in jail.

{3} DV group: I worked with court-ordered violent offenders, both male and female. Again, substance abuse was almost always involved.

{4} Child abuse: before working at mental health, I had done a decade of investigation/treatment of adults who beat their children. In my last job, I created a program at the request of Family Court, to give parents who were at high risk of losing all parental rights for good, to show that they had some desire to change their ways, and learn parenting skills. By no coincidence, addressing substance abuse was a huge factor.

As a government employee, there was not any possibility of discussing religion. Nor did I have the slightest interest in any person's belief system, or lack of one.

My pay was far less than I made in other jobs. It was hardly a gravy train, and your suggestion that it was merely indicates that substance abuser or not, you don't have a clue what you are talking about.

It is the responsibility of the state and the lovely agency that they have "contracted".

I have already come up with ways to avoid another DUI. Don't you worry about that.

And yes, treatment is a great option, if ONE WAS GETTING TREATMENT! What don't you understand? This is not treatment!!!!

I have no problem dealing with the truth. I live it daily.

I'm just gonna speak with the PO at my next "check in"...not that I'm on probation....and tell him that this is a waste of time and see what he says.

And when I'm done with these worthless classes, I'm calling the ACLU.

:-)

Maybe they are trying to irritate people into never doing it again?

The thing is....if your are going to drink....stay off the freaking road. There are many innocent people also on the road and you just might accidentally kill someone...happens all the time actually....

smoke a spliff instead, drink if you want but stay home K? It is not fair to the rest of us.

I think rather than the old film they show, they should show movies of drunk driving car crashes and their consequences, people spending the rest of their lives living with the guilt of killing a family and whatnot. Most people who are alcoholics don't care about themselves, they are already depressed which is quite possibly why they are drinking, so don't make it about them. Instead appeal to their conscience because even if they hate themselves, they probably still care about other people.

Call it the "Irritate People Into Never Doing It Again" class.

And again, just because one gets a DUI, it doesn't mean that they are an alcoholic. And if they are, they need TREATMENT, not bullshit.

I saw the rise of this bullshit. I told my clients just what to say and how to act - and it worked every time. My favorite anecdote: a friend took the bullshit state alcohol assessment (just for a hoot), and was told she is an alcoholic - AND SHE DOESN'T DRINK!

There is a meth addict in our class that has to install an alcohol interlock device in her car for a year. She doesn't drink either.

Don't tell me it's not about the money.

If she answered the questions truthfully, I suspect she is pulling your leg.

Sadly

actually increased some people's drinking, due to the fact that alternatives could be tested for and show up in the client's system, but alcohol would be metabolized.

One of those unintended consequences that policy makers often don't account for.

Not exactly on point, but one might surmise that similar reactions would result from people compelled to attend religious services as well.

The only area that I disagree slightly is in regard to the intended consequences. I think that there are many people in the positions that allow them to make decisions that have exactly that consequence, who do so for a couple of reasons. Included among these, besides the amount of money associated with the alcohol industry, is that it is far easier for those in power to deal with drunken fools than with those who can assess life soberly.

There is a ton of money in keeping the status quo. Those in power would rather deal with those who consume alcohol and tobacco and prescription drugs(and those who need the opiate of religion also) than those who choose to consume weed. I will assess my life in the way that I choose and I dont need prohibitionists in sheeps clothing to try to make my decisions for me.

they are total bullshit money grabbers.

mark

DUI's are not a joke and are frequently the first symptom of a drinking problem.
The classes ARE punishment--your next DUI is jail time--which do you prefer?
My husband took them and never drove if he'd had anything to drink ever again.
My brother runs a DUI program and his classes don't involve religion.

http://lifering.org/

https://rational.org/

These are great alternatives for a non-theistic approach to recovery.

Good luck! :hi: