Math teacher fired from catholic school because she facebooked that she didn't believe in God

'No God' comment adds up to no job for fired math teacher

DES MOINES, Iowa (AP) — A math teacher fired from a Fort Dodge Catholic school because she joined an atheist website and noted on Facebook that she didn't believe in God said Friday she never imagined it would lead to her losing her job.

Nurre said she was called into the principal's office just before winter break and asked about Atheist Nexus, a social network that bills itself as site for "nontheists."

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"The main thing is that she stated she didn't believe in God," Arlt said. "It's pretty hard to put that same teacher in front of students in a Catholic school system."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2010-05-29-fired28_ST_N.htm

Its a Catholic school, and it has every right to do so.

-The Catholic Church is vehemently opposed to contraception. If a teacher at a Catholic school is seen buying condoms, should they be fired?
-The Catholic Church is vehemently homophobic. If a teacher at a Catholic school is gay, but not out to their students or other faculty, should they be fired?
-The Catholic Church is vehemently anti-choice. If a a teacher donates money to NARAL, should they be fired?

And going VERY public, questionable.
And in any case, the school has the RIGHT to fire her.

and avoided. GREAT LESSON THERE! :puke:

Then yes.

Thinking is an internal process. Publishing to a public web page is a public action. The teacher was not fired for the thought of not believing in god. The teacher was fired for writing it on a public website. I think it is a stupid thing to do on the part of the school especially if the teacher was effective, but you need to be honest here and understand the difference between private thoughts and public actions.

If I think about committing a violent act against a known target, I am safe from any wrong doing or prosecution so long as it remains a thought in my head. If I write my thoughts out in a private diary that somehow gets into the public knowledge or especially if I publish those thoughts where the public can see them, then I open myself up to legal repercussions. Not an exact parallel, but private and even public employers have the right to terminate employees who violate the policies of their organization.

We could use more of such, here.

I'm starting to wonder if anyone supporting the school actually bothered to read the article.

The web page she "published" (on Facebook) was a private profile that contained a link to a lengthy poll in which she answered "no" to "do you believe in God?" The school hired her knowing full well that she wasn't Catholic, so there was no expectation that she adhere to the religion outside of her job.

The web page she "published" (on Atheist Nexus) was a linked article about Federally funded prayer research. Again, the school hired her knowing full well that she wasn't Catholic, so there was no expectation that she adhere to the religion outside of her job.

The question has never been "can," but "should." It's a matter of ethics--was the school right to fire her, not whether they were within their legal rights.

and in no way 'f....ed up,' imo. (PS, I am agnostic.)

But to other beliefs, such as women's inequality, anti-choice, anti-gay, anti-birth control, etc. If you choose to teach at a private school, you do so knowing their belief system.

Not sure, really.

Don't publish controversial beliefs, in the circumstances. Nothing to do with honesty.

I just don't get this penchant to blame the victim. So she should not be honest? These views were only privy to her FRIENDS not any of the STUDENTS on FB.

She continued to obediently attend Mass and pray sessions. BTW this continued OBEDIENT behavior is not all that unlike Mother Teresa during her "crisis of faith" period.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/08/23/eveningnews/main3199062.shtml

kind of like Gollum protecting his "precioussssss".

(upfront you should know I am an atheist and I think religion does/has done far more harm than good)

Religious schools generally let applicants know they want to hire those who subscribe to their belief system. Considering she went to mass and such she no doubt assured them she is a practicing Catholic. Then she posts on a public forum that she is an atheist.

Seems to me she perpetrated a fraud, probably told them she was a Catholic and went to pains to create a facade.

Julie--who wonders about those who go on the attack with n'ary a fact in place

There was nothing in her work documents asking for religious beliefs
or demanding that she be catholic. Nothing.

Blame the victim? She acted VERY foolishly, in a quasi-public forum.

Some of 'you folks' don't take the time to consider all aspects of issues, and 'blame' those of us who do.

is it of the school?

her position, which is contrary to that of her school and of most of the students in her school; that belief is CENTRAL to the existence of the Catholic school and church, of course. It is reasonable, imo, for her to lose her job, and for the school to refuse to hire those who hold such beliefs.

Depending on the particular school and curriculum, Catholic and/or religious beliefs play a significant role in the education. (FWIW, I am agnostic, and my daughters attended Catholic primary and high schools, so I know something about these matters.)

In my Catholic school I know some of the teachers didn't go to mass with the students, we simply didn't talk about it, and religious discussion was limited to our religion class.

Who are you to scold people on "siding with authority over the afflicted"?

as she proved...

Of course she shouldn't have been fired. But by making her views public she put the authority in a position to defend their core beliefs. This should serve as a warning to the naive. It's like the young woman who got fired when her sexual exploits got out. People have to learn to protect their OWN privacy.

The issue is that people make themselves vulnerable by posting on accessible, semi-public social network sites. You have to be smarter than this. Realize that you can't win the argument when you're compromised. No point in being a martyr, unless that's your real purpose. Gotta wonder if there wasn't a perverse charge this person was getting out of (what she knew were) her unsanctioned liaisons. And then when she screws up, she puts the blame on the authorities, who are crystal clear in their rigidity and opposition to her beliefs. It's very childish.

Does she think she's going to get Christian acceptance and forgiveness? Attitudes towards atheists are not enlightened in this country in general. Unrealistic.

So DON'T work for a Catholic school! Not like she HAS to work there :shrug: Be more honest with yourself from the outset.

About a year ago, or so, a young 18-year-old lad jumped into a lake in Florida and got his arm taken off by an alligator. He is now without an arm for the rest of his life for a very foolish stunt. I, personally, could've cried. But there were scores of DUer's who mocked and reviled that lad for his stupidity. They were trenchant in their mockery and blame. No quarter.

There's your "blame the victim."

That woman should NOT have posted to facebook. When you get hired by a school such as that, chances are you have to sign something to the effect that you share, at least publicly, the core values of that school. Sorta like the Marine Corps, for example. If I had pronounced myself to be a communist in boot camp...well, I'm glad I didn't (and I wasn't). At the very least I would have received a dishonorable discharge (this was in 1962).

you could have sued them for discrimination and won.

So should they have thrown me out of the military even though I was an honor graduate of an US army-led international class filled with experts? Should I been denied the right to fight for the country I had allegiance to?

I am very tired of everyone pouncing on vulnerable people, especially when they are down. There isn't any difference to doing it with a pen, or with a mob ganging up on a victim in the street. If people were beaten or chastised for every error or mistake they make in life they would spend their entire lives being reminded of only their errors and none of their successes. Our society is already too restricted and I don't want to add to the power of those who dominate us.

IBM is a fascist corporation with a long record of controlling its employees. I was shocked when they were told not to associate with other contractors at NASA when I worked there. I was shocked when they were told they had to act in a certain way. They were so controlling they photographed their employees and their contractors at different angles, making their contractors look subservient to their IBM masters. IBM employees' badges where photographed directly from the front, while contractors were photographed from above. This is just one ploy IBM used to manipulate and control their 'slaves'.

It is impossible for even a team of lawyers to figure out dozens or hundreds of pages of typical contracts without error. Agreeing to be employed with a company doesn't mean having to succumb to your employer as their slave. If we give corporations the right to control our every move then that is as bad as the blacks had to endure at the hands of their white masters.

I am not a slave, and I served my country so I would not be a slave or be dominated by any man or any institution, especially a corporation or a church, two different sides of the same evil coin.

any redeeming values.

atheists and blacks? After all, it's their PRIVATE business. :shrug:

spend much time with Rand Paul lately? A lunch counter in the South is a PUBLIC ACCOMMODATION! A Catholic school IS NOT!

think about the distinction between public accommodations and private schools.

:hi:

If this is the case in this instance, then they might be breaking the law against discrimination.

Action was taken by school NOT 'because of such individual’s race, color, religion, sex, or national origin,' but rather because she announced her belief in a public forum.

Should a business be allowed to deny people because of their race?

They work in a secular setting. It's all about secular education. Goodbye, Catholic teacher. :sarcasm:

Not enough people seem to understand the issue.

no brainer

Though in fact it has little to do with education. She's teaching them math.

dumb ass in your book?)

losing their jobs. And it's not the school's business what her beliefs are. She's not the catechism teacher.

It's kinda like out and out right wingers on DU. This is no place for them.

Conservative nutjobs don't get banned if they don't post. She never told anyone at the school, faculty or student, that she didn't believe in their god.

The only way the school administrators could have found out that she was even a member of Atheist Nexus was if they went to the site and looked for her.

The DU equivalent would be a conservative lurker, and last I heard, the mods don't play 'thought-police' and waste time investigating non-posting members to see if they're secret Republicans.

and someone from DU spotted that person admitting their DU activities, chances are that that person would be banned.

No significant difference.

A certain person is a member of a group of a particular ethos and it is discovered that the person is antithetical to such ethos. Not just ambivalent, mind you, but antithetical. It is that group's right to expel that individual from the group.

It would be no different that a freeper registered on DU using the same screen name as the one they use on any of the sites that can't be mentioned. Whie trolling that site, you noticed that person was a freeper mole and bragging about it. You would tell a mod at DU and the person would get TS'd.

It happens.

You don't need to be an atheist to post on Atheist Nexus. IIRC, there are DUers who troll FR. Should they be banned from DU for posting on FR? Either way, an Internet discussion forum isn't a job.

The matter at hand here is if her actions warranted being fired from her job. All she did was register for an atheist website, post an article about Federally funded prayer research, and answer "no" on a poll that was not open to the public.

If you maintain that her dismissal was proper, then you're saying that an employer has the right to police the private lives of their employees. As I posted upthread, the school's actions are equivalent to an anti-contraception employer firing an employee because they were seen buying condoms.

they want to control what's in their HEAD.

Sick bastards, if you ask me.

time is HER business. That's the problem with people who make apologies for shit like this. You act as though the employer has the right to every aspect of an employee's life including what they think and what they do OFF HOURS. It's an overreach especially as they had actually work to get the information in the first place since the woman actually restricted the wall post in the first place.

It is NOTHING like people who voluntarily sign up to post on a message board. I can go to any other board, while I post here, and post whatever the hell I want and I damn sure don't expect to be tomb-stoned based on something I did over there. THAT would be the difference.

That is a special environment. It's a PRIVATE school. She got caught posting to facebook. Her very being is antithetical to the mission statement of that school. Not bragging about being an atheist won't work there. She surely has or has had the opportunity to teach in other venues more suitable to her world view.

You gotta get a grip. A priest in Miami was noticed on facebook getting all squiggly with a very nice looking woman. He got bounced.

Then, I believe he got married. Life is about choices and consequences. One size does not fit all.

to pry into their employees lives. YOU are wrong.

a catholic, then you broke the contract

if a person choses to be a pharmacist and is anti abortion and refuses to fill a perscription of birth control, then they broke their contract as a pharmacist

Anyone else doing this type of shit you'd be screaming. But it's the church so it's okay. It may be legal but it is not right.

i dont see it as a right or wrong. work for coke. they tell you not to bring a pepsi into the business. throw your fit, yell about your right, bottom line, you are out of a job.

my niece wants to wear a piercing in her nose. rules at busniess says no. so she throw a fit. tough. follow the rules, or dont have a job

From the article
"Nurre said when she was hired at St. Edmonds, she was asked if she was a Catholic. She said she wasn't. At school, she attended Mass and participated in prayer."

this was the one post i used catholics. many of the christian private i know dont bother with particular religions. it is as long as a christian with like beliefs.

they attended.

non-practitioners of the faith, whether they're Christian or not.

Please share it with us.

We are to start class with prayer, attend mass with the rest of the school, be able to answer questions about the faith and Church teachings at any time, and set a positive example for the students.

She knew this. It's part of the job. She was asked about it in the interview, I'm sure, knew that she had to attend school mass and start class with prayer, and knew the risk she was taking in posting anywhere on-line her real belief/non-belief. Catholic teachers are at-will employees who can get fired for anything that is against the Church's teachings, regardless of our actual beliefs.

in all my 12 years of catholic school. Starting the day, yes, over the PA; but we didn't spend the start of every class, religion class included, with a prayer. What the heck?

They can call us evil, immoral, un-American, whatever they want.

Did she state this on Farcebook (typo intentional) or actually say so in front of students. Or, did she direct her students to either her Farcebook page and/or the atheist website?

Because if she was actually telling students that she didn't believe in God, while being paid by a church, I could see their grounds for termination. If she only "practiced" her atheism on her own time, then I don't see how it's any of the church's business.

the kids could find it. My only caveat would be, did the school tell her that she had to be a Christian to be a teacher there, if so, then she's an idiot.

If not, then it might seem somewhat unfair.

What's more, registering to post on an atheist board and posting an article about Government funding for prayer research doesn't even prove that she was atheist. That information was taken from a Facebook poll she made sure students couldn't find.

I've taught in three Catholic high schools now, and I had to supply a priest's recommendation (or pastor's or some faith leader's), answer questions about my faith and how I practice it, and whether I'd be able to toe the line on the Church's teaching.

Honestly, though, the Baptists were worse. I didn't get that job.

Probably shouldn't use facebook at all.

Connections, man.

there`s nothing she can do about it but live and learn.

Did she honestly not see this coming? If not, then she's too stupid to teach my kids.

She had her Facebook page set up so that students couldn't see it, and there's nothing wrong with registering for an atheist forum and posting an article about Federal funding for prayer research.

Thanks for the synopsis.

:shrug:

The school tried to prevent her from receiving unemployment benefits.

In some districts/states, you can't even say that such a belief is factually incorrect.

the world was 6000 years old

I think you're mixing various people up in your head

They all actually teach science. The girls school where I first taught sends a student to the international science fair pretty much every year. Keep in mind that Catholic educators tend to be pretty liberal (though not so liberal as to be okay with an avowed atheist in the classroom) and are definitely not Creationists. If they are, they don't last long.

It's their school and they'll do what they wish... simple as that

we had her enrolled in when she conveyed what happened to her one day. The religion teacher was conveying Catholic Dogma. Specifically she was insisting that non-humans were loved by God and His beloved creatures but they were devoid of souls. My daughter raised her hand and stood-up to say, "I don't care what you say, my dog has a soul." Oh boy! I fully agreed with her and she attended public school the next year. :wow:

If calling the Pope a rat-bastard is bigotry that must be railed against, why is firing a teacher for not privately not believing in God just peachy?

Smells like a double standard to me.

and you dont teach in that school. private school, different rules. dont want to follow the rules, go to a place where they dont have them.

nothing to do with bigotry

Her religious beliefs had absolutely no bearing on how she could perform her job.

the stupidity might be on your part if you are not famailiar about the practices of a prive christian school.

her lack of religious beliefs (i believe it is a stupid comment to say her religious beliefs, when she is without) means she cannot perform part of her job.

He never mentioned God or Jesus in Math class, that was for our religion class(taught by a different teacher).

outside the classes, before the classes....

your math teacher didnt say he was an atheist.

We had a prayer at the beginning of the day, grace at lunch, and that was about it, we didn't insert religion in every class in my Catholic school. I can't speak for any other schools.

who is to say if the priest declared he didnt believe in god, his collar would have been taken along with his grade book

with the students, I do know that, other than that, I don't know what to tell you. I'm just countering the argument that religion is inserted in every classroom, when it wasn't.

Apparently so is spying on one's employees to see what they do off hours. Amazing the number of people who turn into neo-feudalists when it's the church is involved.

"No one ever said that the Kingdom of God was a democracy."

The Christian religion has in it's basic beliefs, corruption of blood, cruel and unusual punishment, and a dictatorship held as paradise. Those beliefs are literally un-American, but to call the religion un-American is considered several steps too far.

1) She registered on a nontheist forum and made a post there (about as easy to do as for trolls to post on DU);
2) Her Facebook page was only open to 'friended' persons, not to everyone, not to students.
3) From the deception of the "evidence" against her, she didn't say anything outright about being an atheist on her Facebook page. It was a question on a Facebook poll/survey/whatever.

Somebody would have had to do some digging to find out these things, and there wasn't the slightest suggestion that she "proselytized" in class.

The only "not private" thing she seems to have done is believe Facebook's privacy settings were worth a damn.

and excuses and defense of that bigotry. Un-FUCKING-believable.

:shrug:

Did they ever figure out how many "angels that could dance on the head of a pin" thing?

I never did hear of a well-reasoned solution to that theorem.

All of them.

:rofl:

I just call it Nature...

A quote attributed to Frank L Wright...


(I always use only half the quote when some self-righteous fundie rudely asks the question no one should be asked)

they get to make that restriction. I'm having a hard time feeling sorry for someone who knew she didn't fit in with the school's requirements.

Not that it has anything to do with math.

:eyes:

You betcha. :grr:

Keep your job. You even get cover. But deny God and you are FIRED! I can't believe people actually go to catholic church anymore. I know, I spent 18 years wasted of my life there every Sunday, and CCD when I was a kid. FU catholic church.

Make certain those Catholic values are upheld.

...if someone were fired from a public school for being Catholic?

"Duh."

Catholic teachers are at-will employees everywhere I've taught (in my third school now and leaving to teach in an alternative high school full-time next year). Catholic teachers have no rights, and we are required to toe the Church's line on everything, whether we believe it ourselves or not.

Why the heck was she so stupid as to not lock down her FB page? Mine is, though even then, I still make sure not to post anything that could get me fired.

I'm thinking she hasn't been there long and hasn't learned the ropes yet. It's fairly simple: the principal is the pope, the teachers are a necessary evil, and the parents are in charge most of the time (and they do what their kids tell them). Now, the school I'm in now isn't anywhere near that bad, and I've been really impressed with the principal--she's one of the best principals I've ever had the honor of working with. Even she would let someone go for being an atheist, at least in part for lying in the interview and on the application (I had to submit a priest's recommendation and answer questions about where I go to church and what I believe for every school I've taught in).

It's crappy for her, but it's fair to have believers as teachers at a catholic school.

And be smart about posting on Facebook.

Why should businesses be allowed to discriminate against religious beliefs?

to attend Scientology meetings or get fired was bigotry of the highest order, but an atheist being shitcanned for not believing it Jesus is just peachy.
Double standard? Where?!

it is that simple to these simplistic minded fucking douchebags.

sell birth control. so she is permitted to deny a perscription.

wrong.

she cannot perform her job as a pharmacist because of her religious belief. she is fired. (or should be)

that is consistency

then again, you have posters that chose to call people "simplistic minded fucking douchebags" when really they are the slow ones. truly amusing.

who said you needed to believe in god to teach math? you do need to believe in god to teach in that school.

What vital job function isn't met that prevents her from teaching 2+2=4 because she doesn't believe in God?

believers. that is their whole premise for existence.

children in their frankly evil and perverse beliefs? If so, I would necessarily agree, and again I would say that a Math teacher, who isn't supposed to be involved in Bible study with the students religious beliefs shouldn't matter if they don't interfere with the brainwashing.

part of getting into the school.

we dont go to church and i wasnt going to go to church for the school. the top dude called me at home and tried to talk me into going to a church. i told him no. i do not do religion. i am very much christian in behavior, but church hypocrisy turns me off. he encouraged me to put a name of a church down. i told him i dont lie, and i really was not going to lie about this, to them. i sent a little shame his way.

he finally accepted that i wasnt going to "pretend". i approached it honestly and without hypocrisy and the kids got in. i did not have to pretend, and kids did not have to be a part of a game.

if they chose to not take the boys, because of their rule, i would understand and respect that. it was my choice for kids to go to that school. there were other alternatives for kids to get an education.

we dont know anything about this school or what is required to work there.

there is no overriding "christian behavior". Christianity, like all religions has, at best, a neutral affect on people's behavior, if not a negative affect. Christianity does NOT equal good.

i disagree with you assessment.

here on du.

your hypocrisy abounds. what if i were to call atheists, or you in particular an assholic bigot.

i would be deleted in a heartbeat.

du gives a hell of a leeway to the atheist, that would not be allowed to the christian.



why dont you reflect on that.

when it doesn't affect the job they are supposed to perform then they would deserve it, its that simple. I'm criticizing the behavior of the school, their religion is no consequence except as a motivation for exclusion, discrimination and hatred.

with no qualms what so ever, that would not be tolerated if it was fired at an atheist. hypocrite.

and YES the teachers religious views matter in the teaching of any subject in that school. just because you say no, or dont want it to be, doesnt make it true.

I'll call it projection.

Yet she, and this teacher, continued to do good works. :crazy:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/08/23/eveningnews/main3199062.shtml

Very droll. ;)

From the article, near the end when it said Nurre went to compulsory Mass and voodoo...er, prayer sessions at the school:

"I was fine with that. I've always done that," she said. "I'm not an atheist. I'm not a Catholic. I'm not a Christian. I'm somewhere in between."

I've actually been to Fort Dodge, IA on some biz trips. It's a small town deep in the American Ukraine - where the land is flat as Glen Beck's brainwaves with only an occasional silo breaking the landscape. IIRC, Ft. Dodge is only about 90 miles from the South Dakota border.

On a day off I went driving around the area, but there wasn't much to see. Wheat field, small town, corn field, small town, overpriced Genuine American Heartland Country Antique & Junque Shoppes, corn field, etc. etc.

I turned around and went back to Ft. Dodge when my thoughts turned too much to a certain Stephen King story...

Ft. Dodge seemed like a nice friendly little place, but there's nothing like religion to turn neighbors against each other. If you ever wondered why Catholics have their own schools in the first place, just Google "Philadelphia bible wars."

I remain, your friendly local Fundamentalist Atheist.

Good Math teachers do not grow on trees. It was the school's loss. :(

employers have become hip to it and troll those sites looking for shit.

If you're looking for work be sure all of that shit is scrubbed for corporate approval. I'd even be reluctant on politics and the whole nine yards.

Somewhere along the line we got sorta consumered into "Big Brother", they didn't even have to impose it between social networking, cell phones, and fear mongering we have eyes on us and are sending our whereabouts at all times.

Whenever passing mention of my atheism comes up in a thread of mine, passive-aggressive status updates from them aimed at me are soon to follow.

love and tolerance.

Gee; maybe this teacher can get a job in a Hebrew or Muslim school.

NOT.

(specifically Apatheism) I believe in God, but don't go to church. Now I work for a christian university and they asked after the second interview whether I was christian. I still believe I am, even as a lapsed christian. The university has us give a prayer at the beginning of the class and I use it as a moment of silence instead choosing to let students pray only if they want to.

That is its strength, and, to some, its weakness.

As a Catholic who taught in a public school, I think it is a strength.

And as a humanist I know that PRIVATE/parochial schools can serve their constituencies in other ways, and can make the rules to do so.

I taught. I didn't have to pledge to the flag, but I wanted to. I didn't have to take a loyalty oath. I spoke (perhaps unwisely, in hindsight) against Reagan and the Bushes.

I most certainly wasn't asked if I "believed in government"! I find the notion risible!

Without "government", public education would not exist. Without "God", or more specifically, "Christ", Catholic schools would not exist. If you don't believe in the entity providing the reason for you employer's existence, why serve it? That was my only point, but you chose to take it a step beyond my intent.

However, to your point, I do believe that an employee of a religious school should promote the mission of the school. An employee of Microsoft would not last long, if he/she said publicly that he/she did not believe in Microsoft's products.

There are some things you put on Facebook, some things you don't. It should be a no-brainer?

I understand what you are saying. A person has to be careful about anything they put into cyberspace. But this is the same church that condoned and even fostered the abuse of vulnerable children, and yet they are attacking a math teacher for just being honest? The Catholic Church needs to take that plank out its own eyes before it tries to remove any perceived splinters from another's. It makes me wonder if they even read or understand the Bible. Obviously a lot of them don't practice what's in it...

What does it matter if a math teacher is an atheist? I'm surprised any religious school even teaches math since they believe the world is only 6,000 years old. How can their students be more tainted by a math teacher talking about numbers than being sexually abused, fondled or raped, which was obviously condoned by the Catholic church?

Please 'god' send me in the 'hereafter' in an opposite direction from all of those who profess to believe in Jesus, yet are intolerant of everyone who does not think and act like them. Spending an eternity with fake Christians would be hell. Does any 'Christian' read the Bible? They say it is their guide through life, but they seem to be the worst offenders of the laws mandated by God through the Bible. Obviously they don't read or understand it, because if they did they would focus on trying to "remove the plank out of their own eye before trying to remove the splinter out of another's". And I'd think priests screwing little children is a pretty big plank to take out of one's eyes...

Oh yeah, 'Amen, and amen...'

Religion: A man-made invention to control, manipulate and extract as much cash from people who give for a chance at the jackpot at the end of their life. Face it, the hereafter is more like a grand prize in a lottery, with people giving their hard earned money willingly for a shot at their celestial payoff.

The Bible says it is not through good deeds alone that will get you into the kingdom of heaven. It takes 'faith', but religions use 'faith' as a way to extract as much cash from their flocks as possible so they can build multimillion dollar buildings and surround themselves with gaudy religious props.

Jesus said wherever two or more are gathered is a 'church'. But worshipping under a tree is unacceptable to those who seem to need their materialistic surroundings to sustain their 'faith'. What's that in the Bible about worshipping 'false gods'?

BTW, I have observed how atheists ironically know more about the Bible than Christians do. Next time you are with a Christian ask them to recite the Ten Commandments. I bet they get to about 3 or 4 and max out...

I know a Coors distributor that has fired employees after catching them in a bar drinking Budweiser. If you don't believe in the brand. You have no business working for the brand. Catholics have their own brand of God so to speak.

No one should be fired for what they believe. Using the justification above, if you were a Merck drug company employee they could fire you if you used a Pfizer drug while in the hospital. Using that justification no one could ever work at any company because they would all violate their 'absolute loyalty' (slavery) to their corporate masters.

When Pfizer employees get sick they trust Merck's products with their lives. If Pfizer employees won't trust Pfizer's products with their lives. Why should you?

Now your job has been abolished because everyone is using Merck instead of Pfizer. So fine we'll we'll do it your way. But either way the person is out of a job. Doing it your way just allows them to destroy the brand that's paying their bills before they're out of work. You simply cannot effectively advocate for a product you do not believe in or use.

The world you propose is a frightening one where everyone becomes a slave to their masters. Such absolute loyalty is a dream of dictators, and certainly not something that should be the rule in any free country.

All drug manufacturers don't make the same medications. But what you are suggesting is that if a person is in a hospital and the company they work for doesn't make the life-saving drug they need, then they should choose to die instead. Sorry, but I'm not dying for any corporation or any employer. And they don't own me, nor should they own anyone else either.

If an Exxon employee is about to run out of gas while driving should he let his car drift to the side of the road depleted of fuel just because he can't find an Exxon gas station, even if there is a competitor's gas station on the other side of the road?

Slavery of blacks was abolished by the 13th Amendment to the US Constitution with the Abolition of Slavery in 1865. Are you suggesting all people should be virtual slaves to their corporate masters?

Not who made the gas. If Exxon has orders for 1 million gallons and only have 500,000 gallons in holding. They'll buy the other 500,000 gallons from shell or another producer.

But corporations spend millions upon millions developing brand loyalty amongst CONSUMERS. You don't think they should be able to demand it from employees? Ooookay. Let me put it to you like this. If drink coke then get a job with coke. Not Pepsi. Your suggesting a hellish world in which people who drink coke have to work for pepsi because of an appearance of slavery to a brand. So everyone has to have a hellish job making crap they can't stand and wouldn't use EVEN IF YOU PAID THEM and they do. If you work for coke drinking a pepsi is simply cutting you're own throat. Everyone that see's you drinking that pepsi and drinks one too. That's a loss of sales for coke to pepsi. Of course the pepsi drinking coke employee is wondering why the company can't afford to give them a raise. Plain and simple. If you don't use your product why should anyone else? That plain and simple truth can have a devastating impact on your bottom line.

It would be a corporate dream to completely be able to manipulate every move by any of their employees. Sorry, but I believe in freedom and I served in the military to prevent oppression from any source. I will never bow down to any corporation and I will never worship a corporation. If that meant living in the street I would do so rather than be a corporate slave with them telling me what to wear, what to drink, what to say, who I can associate with and being forced to always conform to all of their demands.

I believe if you stepped back from your position and realized its dangerous implications you would soon be terrified of a world completely dominated by corporations. I doubt if Germans under Hitler were even forced to drink specific drinks or eat certain foods. They were however, forced to behave as their Nazi leaders demanded.

The path you envision is a slippery slope to complete domination of human beings by corporations or employers. I hope you someday see how dangerous such a world would be. But the 'plus' side of your proposal would be we wouldn't need an army to protect us because we would already be enslaved. There aren't any differences between foreign armies which threaten us and corporate 'armies' which are attacking Americans daily. Corporations own our government. They write our laws. They invade your privacy. And if they succeed, everyone will be forced to succumb to their every whim.

If I worked for CocaCola and found myself at a restaurant I would not be terrified if they only served Pepsi. I would order what I wanted, not what a corporation or a business tells me what to drink.

All the best and have a great and 'free' Memorial Day weekend...

And if you work for CocaCola, be a little rebellious and have a Pepsi. If I knew you I'd buy you one myself :)

You're the one that wants to lock a pepsi drinker into a life long job working for coke. I'm saying coke is free to tell the pepsi drinker to hit the road. There is a flip side to that. The pepsi drinker is also free to tell coke to blow it out their arse. I'm going to work for Pepsi if only because I use and therefore believe in the product. No slavery issues here. Both parties are free in my model. Your model only provides a freedom for one of the two parties.

Seriously. The Democratic Party has become the receptacle for all those who aren't complete totalitarians. Free marketers and anti-labor shills welcome.

We can't exclude fascists for fear of seeming discriminatory. Same with misogynists, homophobes, racists, etc. Everybody's welcome under the big tent.

rabbid Freepers? Would you like to ask Skinner how members of the GOP the DEMORATIC Underground employs? You might want to check your surroundings before you start screaming "totalitarian capitolists." You might actually be neck deep in them.

The woman is free to seek employment else where in a school that is more like minded with her. You simply do not have a right any specific job with any specific company. Here in Maryland your employment can be terminated at any time without reason. Unless you have a contract of employment and brand loyalty is usually in the fine print. You might even find a few morals clauses there too. That's at a company. Not a church. That brings the first amendment into play. Congress sgall make no law.......

teaching math or some non-religious class I don't see what the problem is. As long as she keeps her opinion to herself. But then again you see how freely christains in public schools want to bring their religious beliefs into school teaching. Am a catholic and I want my child learning about god in church or religious school not in a public school. I have no problem with a non-believing teacher as long as they leave their beliefs at home.

What I would say to the church: "Take the plank out of your own eye before trying to remove the splinter from another's." ( Matthew 7:5 ) Pedophilia is condoned, but got forbid a math teacher say she's an atheist. Like you said, how can teaching math warp a student's mind or turn them against their Catholic faith? If every employer had such a purity test unemployment would be 100%. Hell, even the Pope would probably have to resign.

BTW, I am not a Christian, but I know more about the Bible than 99% of the Christians I have ever met.

but the school wasn't a public school where her beliefs wouldn't matter. In a private, religious school, there are some things which go with that, and faith is one of them.

At the very best, she should never have ID'd herself, because someone is always out there watching.

I know this from growing up in Utah, with many church related businesses legally restricting their employment opportunities to members of the mormon faith only. They have been brought to court time and time again over it, and they always win. Apparently it is legal for a church business to discriminate while hiring. Not saying I like it, but it is legal.

and then proceed to broadcast your doubts about the existence of God to the world via the internet. If anybody needs to be indicted, its this math teacher on the charge of breathtaking stupidity.

if they post a rainbow sticker on their Facebook? Or attend a pro-LGBT event?

somewhere, these people are sick and depraved.

If you're going to choose to work for a religious institution, as opposed to a public agency or a private secular institution, as long as the Government allows religious groups to run schools, you'll have to abide by their rules.

Could they, for instance, fire all the black people?

could find any lame ass excuse.

Unless they made up some excuse -- because it's illegal to fire someone based on race. Even if you're a private institution.

You don't work for the Rand Paul campaign, by chance?

I can't believe some of the people who are fine with this shit happening. :puke:

This is a criminal organization that has covered up and supported the rape of young boys and girls. Freeze their assets, hand the schools to the local districts and tax the everloving fuck out of their churches to pay for it.

:hi:

That's right as rain.

"homes", seminaries, and the altar-boy system.

I mean, does every business/organization have somebody (or a bunch of somebodies) whose primary job responsibility is to surf the web looking up employees and examining what they're saying and doing online (off-duty) for any whiff or hint of something that the company might not like and/or be able to use as a reason to fire somebody? While I believe that people need to be somewhat discreet about, say, their private sexual activities/proclivities and should not be trashing their employers and/or clients (though I don't understand why people can't be allowed to let off a little steam every once in a while), this notion that companies are completely within their rights- just because the information is out there and is available for public consumption- to sift through megabytes of personal information/comments on the internet for no apparent reason and then fire somebody for their OFF-DUTY comments/activities that they might dislike and/or find offensive (but is not illegal or unethical) is chilling IMHO.

:wtf:
:banghead:

There probably aren't many on the staff who would know how.

Enough Said...

other educational institution or institution of learning to hire and employ employees of a particular religion if such school, college, university, or other educational institution or institution of learning is, in whole or in substantial part, owned, supported, controlled, or managed by a particular religion or by a particular religious corporation, association, or society, or if the curriculum of such school, college, university, or other educational institution or institution of learning is directed toward the propagation of a particular religion.

that applicants need to adhere to that particular belief system. I suspect she is possibly guilty of fraud because it's likely she assured them she was on board with it all.

Julie

She didn't assure them and they didn't ask.

The employment application, a link to which is posted in the other thread on this topic, doesn't ask anything about the applicant's religious beliefs. And, the school has other non-Catholic faculty.

A link to the application can be found here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8446917&mesg_id=8447705

I'm horrified that so many people are bending over backwards to defend this.

That's why I was surprised that Julie would assume she was "guilty of fraud".


:hi:

Facebook is something else, isn't it? Why normally sane people feel the need to "confess" all kinds of intimate details of their lives, and then are surprised when the "wrong" people find out..:rofl:

If you teach at a CATHOLIC school or ANY religious school, I would think it's IMPLIED that you at least believe in god :)...or at the VERY least, let the bosses THINK you do :)

was found to have posted on a website that they believed that whites are genetically superior to all other races. Would anyone here have the slightest problem with that person being dismissed from their job because of their "beliefs"?

Or if someone working for the Human Rights Campaign was discovered to have posted a message indicating that they believed being gay is a matter of choice and that gays can be "cured"? Again, anyone here willing to stick up for that person if they were then fired?

Do I agree with the school? No. Do they have the right to fire the person. Of course.

perhaps they could just ship her from school to school? :evilgrin:

Well, maybe not. Maybe he's too soft.

That's so fucked up that I wonder in what parallel Universe I am right now.