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The Straight Story (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 03:38 PM Original message |
Placing the Blame as Students Are Buried in Debt |
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jdlh8894 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 03:50 PM Response to Original message |
1. Is this the same lady |
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msongs (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 03:53 PM Response to Original message |
2. people choose to take out expensive loans and act surprised they have be paid back. hmmm nt |
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jdlh8894 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 04:00 PM Response to Reply #2 |
4. Especially when they get the loan |
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Raspberry (377 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 03:56 PM Response to Original message |
3. A degree in Religious & Women's Studies? |
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izquierdista (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 04:14 PM Response to Reply #3 |
11. Hold it right there.... |
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Raspberry (377 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 04:26 PM Response to Reply #11 |
13. I have no problem with |
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izquierdista (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 04:49 PM Response to Reply #13 |
18. Employers are looking for tools, not people |
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Raspberry (377 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 04:58 PM Response to Reply #18 |
22. So-- |
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izquierdista (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 05:16 PM Response to Reply #22 |
26. There are far more categories than necessary |
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lumberjack_jeff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 05:07 PM Response to Reply #18 |
25. Yes. That is what employees are. |
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Raineyb (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-30-10 12:56 PM Response to Reply #25 |
94. No people are not tools (unless you area referring to an asshole) otherwise |
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lumberjack_jeff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-30-10 01:20 PM Response to Reply #94 |
100. Wake up. |
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NashVegas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-30-10 05:07 PM Response to Reply #100 |
106. +10 |
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Raineyb (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-30-10 07:33 PM Response to Reply #100 |
119. Take your own rather useless advice. |
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lumberjack_jeff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-30-10 08:55 PM Response to Reply #119 |
126. You don't lease it, you sell it. |
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Raineyb (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-30-10 10:42 PM Response to Reply #126 |
132. I'm leasing my services. |
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NashVegas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-30-10 05:05 PM Response to Reply #11 |
104. "Me, Too" Degrees. |
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readmoreoften (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 05:24 PM Response to Reply #3 |
28. Yeah, god forbid someone knows about WOMEN. They might work at a shelter, or get an MSW, |
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tammywammy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 05:32 PM Response to Reply #28 |
32. The woman in the article isn't even doing that much, she's working for a photographer |
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Matariki (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 05:34 PM Response to Reply #3 |
33. Bullshit. Because knowledge and scholarship is just a luxury for the rich? |
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William Z. Foster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 05:42 PM Response to Reply #33 |
35. hear hear |
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mike_c (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 06:22 PM Response to Reply #33 |
47. +1 |
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FarCenter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 06:57 PM Response to Reply #33 |
57. Knowledge and scholarship can be had for far less than $100,000 |
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happy_liberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-30-10 12:43 PM Response to Reply #57 |
92. "have never let my schooling interfere with my education" Mark Twain |
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Matariki (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-30-10 06:31 PM Response to Reply #57 |
113. Or we could operate like a civilized nation and subsidize higher education |
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krabigirl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 06:04 PM Response to Reply #3 |
44. Nope, not true. I had an English degree and didn't find it hard to find jobs, even in a recession ro |
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Hippo_Tron (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 06:27 PM Response to Reply #3 |
49. My engineering friends are mostly unemployed or working jobs they didn't need their degree for |
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Missy Vixen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 07:02 PM Response to Reply #3 |
58. "Take her pick of offers"? |
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MadHound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 07:05 PM Response to Reply #3 |
59. So only "useful" degrees are approved in this country? |
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lumberjack_jeff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-30-10 11:33 AM Response to Reply #59 |
88. No, people are welcome to choose a degree in any field of study they want. |
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Greyhound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-30-10 05:07 PM Response to Reply #3 |
105. And that's what happened to American education. It's been transformed from the seeking of knowledge |
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tishaLA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-30-10 05:40 PM Response to Reply #105 |
112. I've been bitching about that for years now. |
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Greyhound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-30-10 06:35 PM Response to Reply #112 |
115. Well there you go, the institutes themselves are nothing more than profit centers any longer. |
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ProgressiveProfessor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 04:01 PM Response to Original message |
5. 2X Duplicate |
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The Straight Story (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 04:05 PM Response to Reply #5 |
7. Whew, I though you meant I posted it already |
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jdlh8894 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 04:24 PM Response to Reply #7 |
12. CRS setting in Straight? LOL |
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ProgressiveProfessor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 04:03 PM Response to Original message |
6. It was her choice, specifically a boutique major with no commercial value |
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jp11 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 04:09 PM Response to Reply #6 |
8. Agreed but even if you do get a commerically viable degree it isn't a guarantee to a job everyone |
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ProgressiveProfessor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 05:30 PM Response to Reply #8 |
30. You are right about no guarantees, but a technical degree has a lot better ROI |
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readmoreoften (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 05:22 PM Response to Reply #6 |
27. Really "professor"? What kind of fantastic employment do you prepare people for? |
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ProgressiveProfessor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 05:41 PM Response to Reply #27 |
34. If you actually read what I posted, you would realize that I support classes and degrees |
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Greyhound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-30-10 05:08 PM Response to Reply #6 |
107. What an appropriate response from a "professor". |
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ProgressiveProfessor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-30-10 09:36 PM Response to Reply #107 |
131. In context it is |
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madinmaryland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 04:10 PM Response to Original message |
9. What is really sad, is that students cannot pursue degrees in more |
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ProgressiveProfessor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 06:06 PM Response to Reply #9 |
46. I agree with you...then again, we as a society have much less time for intellectual pursuits |
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Amaya (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 06:32 PM Original message |
my thoughts exactly |
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Hippo_Tron (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 07:06 PM Response to Reply #9 |
61. I don't think that's really true |
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lumberjack_jeff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-30-10 11:51 PM Response to Reply #9 |
135. Anymore? |
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keep_it_real (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 04:12 PM Response to Original message |
10. I don't feel sorry for $100,000 college debt - it's their choice |
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SOS (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 04:28 PM Response to Original message |
14. Get a trade |
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FarCenter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 04:33 PM Response to Original message |
15. "interdisciplinary degree in religious and women’s studies" is intellectual conspicuous consumption |
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jdlh8894 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 04:41 PM Response to Reply #15 |
16. " intellectual conspicuous consumption" |
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FarCenter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 04:53 PM Response to Reply #16 |
20. It is consumption intended for the purpose of status signaling |
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intheflow (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 05:52 PM Response to Reply #15 |
41. Yes, because the only value of education is to turn a buck. |
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Raineyb (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 04:42 PM Response to Original message |
17. I find reading the responses to this article funny in light of the moaning about the |
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lumberjack_jeff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 05:04 PM Response to Reply #17 |
24. No, it reinforces those articles |
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William Z. Foster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 05:50 PM Response to Reply #24 |
40. good |
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Raineyb (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 06:28 PM Response to Reply #40 |
51. +1 n/t |
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SOS (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-30-10 01:35 PM Response to Reply #40 |
101. Education has been commodified in the US |
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Raineyb (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 06:26 PM Response to Reply #24 |
48. No you're showing EXACTLY why college students today have so little empathy. |
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lumberjack_jeff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-30-10 10:29 AM Response to Reply #48 |
87. I have lots of empathy for those who deserve it. |
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Raineyb (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-30-10 12:59 PM Response to Reply #87 |
96. Like I said you are the embodiment of exactly why we can see so little empathy |
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lumberjack_jeff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-30-10 01:16 PM Response to Reply #96 |
98. The supply of empathy is undiminished. The demand for it is nearly infinite. |
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William Z. Foster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-30-10 05:04 PM Response to Reply #98 |
103. so mean-spirited and ugly |
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lumberjack_jeff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-30-10 06:50 PM Response to Reply #103 |
117. The libertarian theme of "live within your means"? |
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William Z. Foster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-30-10 08:29 PM Response to Reply #117 |
122. yes, absolutely |
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lumberjack_jeff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-30-10 08:54 PM Response to Reply #122 |
125. Right wing think tanks such as Ben Franklin? |
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William Z. Foster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-30-10 09:07 PM Response to Reply #125 |
127. oh, now it is "frugality" |
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lumberjack_jeff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-30-10 11:20 PM Response to Reply #127 |
133. "frugality" = "living within your means" |
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Raineyb (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-30-10 07:38 PM Response to Reply #98 |
120. Delete |
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Greyhound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-30-10 05:10 PM Response to Reply #87 |
108. You don't even see the irony in your subject... |
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lumberjack_jeff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-30-10 06:33 PM Response to Reply #108 |
114. Because there is none. |
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Greyhound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-30-10 06:47 PM Response to Reply #114 |
116. .. |
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lumberjack_jeff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-30-10 06:51 PM Response to Reply #116 |
118. Yeah. You said that. Not very empathetic of you. n/t |
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readmoreoften (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 05:28 PM Response to Reply #17 |
29. I've got a solution!!! Let's get rid of ETHNIC STUDIES!!!1! It's a BOUTIQUE degree!!!1!!! |
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intheflow (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 05:53 PM Response to Reply #29 |
42. .. |
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Berry Cool (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 10:33 PM Response to Reply #29 |
77. It is no longer pragmatic to go into lawyering. |
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Hippo_Tron (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-30-10 12:14 AM Response to Reply #77 |
79. Depends on the rank of the school you go to |
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JVS (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 05:31 PM Response to Reply #17 |
31. You mean you can't treat them like dogshit and expect them to have empathy? |
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Brickbat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 04:53 PM Response to Original message |
19. I think the higher education bubble is the next overheated thing that will collapse. |
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Dappleganger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 04:54 PM Response to Original message |
21. Hedge Fund Sees `Big Short' in Education Stocks With Possible Law Changes |
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lumberjack_jeff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 05:00 PM Response to Original message |
23. "They and their families made borrowing decisions based more on emotion than reason" |
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intheflow (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 05:50 PM Response to Reply #23 |
39. OR: |
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UndertheOcean (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 05:46 PM Response to Original message |
36. So , what prevented her from studying in-state ? in a reasonable public University ? |
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tammywammy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 05:49 PM Response to Reply #36 |
38. Or doing two years at a community college and transferring to NYU? |
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JPZenger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 08:52 PM Response to Reply #38 |
74. Its NYU's fault |
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jp11 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 05:56 PM Response to Reply #36 |
43. Unquestioning blind faith that a good school = success no matter what. |
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Raineyb (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 06:32 PM Response to Reply #36 |
52. IOW: Why are the proles trying to get the elite education we told them |
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FarCenter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 06:48 PM Response to Reply #52 |
56. You can become emperor by being born into the royal family or by becoming a victorious general |
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Hippo_Tron (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 07:07 PM Response to Reply #56 |
62. Nope, majoring in history won't get you a job |
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FarCenter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 07:11 PM Response to Reply #62 |
64. I said "read", not "major in". See reply 57 above. |
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Hippo_Tron (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 07:12 PM Response to Reply #64 |
65. I was being snakry |
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FarCenter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 07:44 PM Response to Reply #65 |
70. Snakry is OK |
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Raineyb (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 07:19 PM Response to Reply #56 |
67. Who's talking about being emperor? When the society says one must have a degree to get ahead |
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FarCenter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 07:43 PM Response to Reply #67 |
69. She may not have had the social background or skills to network into financial services or media |
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Raineyb (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 08:28 PM Response to Reply #69 |
72. Therein lies the rub. They don't tell the proles that do they? |
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Jkid (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-30-10 12:17 PM Response to Reply #36 |
91. Peer and media culture are the blame. |
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intheflow (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 05:47 PM Response to Original message |
37. I have over $100K for my M.Div. |
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shireen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 06:06 PM Response to Original message |
45. $100,000 is insane |
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mike_c (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 06:28 PM Response to Reply #45 |
50. we have a young woman staying with us who earned her biology degree... |
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jp11 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 06:32 PM Response to Reply #50 |
53. You hit it on the head, too many students rack up huge debt and then are forced to take pathetic |
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The Straight Story (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 06:40 PM Response to Reply #53 |
55. I have a suspicion about it |
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FarCenter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 07:05 PM Response to Reply #55 |
60. As any field matures, qualifications shift from ability to credentials |
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Raineyb (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 08:31 PM Response to Reply #53 |
73. I think you're right there. |
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depakid (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 08:54 PM Response to Reply #50 |
75. Bring it, Mike. |
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shireen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-30-10 01:17 PM Response to Reply #50 |
99. i really hope things work out for her -- she deserves better |
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ProgressiveProfessor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-30-10 12:09 AM Response to Reply #45 |
78. $20K a year for tuition/books/living expenses is fairly reasonable |
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Hippo_Tron (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-30-10 02:44 AM Response to Reply #78 |
84. That's news to me, I just graduated and the vast majority of my class finished in 4 years |
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ProgressiveProfessor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-30-10 09:39 AM Response to Reply #84 |
85. Class sequencing and availability tend to drive 5 years |
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shireen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-30-10 12:58 PM Response to Reply #78 |
95. wow! |
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ProgressiveProfessor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-30-10 09:30 PM Response to Reply #95 |
130. It has gotten scary bad in many places |
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boppers (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-30-10 01:22 AM Response to Reply #45 |
83. "how will that knowledge get passed to future generations"? |
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shireen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-30-10 12:50 PM Response to Reply #83 |
93. if that's the case |
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boppers (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-31-10 04:49 AM Response to Reply #93 |
137. Wikipedia has vastly magnified human knowledge. |
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Raineyb (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-30-10 01:03 PM Response to Reply #83 |
97. Merely reading from a book does not pass down knowledge. And who is going to write the |
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boppers (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-31-10 05:12 AM Response to Reply #97 |
138. Are you arguing against books? |
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historian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 06:36 PM Response to Original message |
54. thats what you get for not thinking |
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Taitertots (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 07:07 PM Response to Original message |
63. Blaming students is blaming the victims of systemic collapse |
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ProgressiveProfessor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-30-10 12:17 AM Response to Reply #63 |
80. Choice has consequences and this student made bad choices |
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Taitertots (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-30-10 12:12 PM Response to Reply #80 |
90. They didn't choose to be born into the second great depression |
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ProgressiveProfessor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-30-10 09:23 PM Response to Reply #90 |
129. Actually she loves what she is doing |
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William Z. Foster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-30-10 05:00 PM Response to Reply #80 |
102. choice is a right wing theme |
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ProgressiveProfessor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-30-10 09:21 PM Response to Reply #102 |
128. Actually choice is a liberal and progressive theme |
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William Z. Foster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-31-10 12:25 AM Response to Reply #128 |
136. increasing choices, yes |
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ProgressiveProfessor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-31-10 09:06 AM Response to Reply #136 |
139. So is taking responsibility |
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lumberjack_jeff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-30-10 11:35 PM Response to Reply #102 |
134. Is there nothing that isn't? |
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ProgressiveProfessor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon May-31-10 09:45 AM Response to Reply #134 |
140. There is a fair amount of subtely here that many are overlooking |
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NashVegas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-30-10 05:11 PM Response to Reply #63 |
109. The Education Industry Is No Different From the Housing Industry |
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Clintonista2 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 07:13 PM Response to Original message |
66. I am a student who is beyond "buried" in debt |
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bvar22 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 07:29 PM Response to Original message |
68. DLC Mission Accomplished! |
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intheflow (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 08:24 PM Response to Reply #68 |
71. +1000 |
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boppers (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-29-10 09:06 PM Response to Original message |
76. A $100,000 party with nothing to show for it? |
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ProgressiveProfessor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-30-10 12:23 AM Response to Reply #76 |
81. Disagree |
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boppers (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-30-10 12:59 AM Response to Reply #81 |
82. Point made. |
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bvar22 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-30-10 10:24 AM Response to Reply #82 |
86. A paradox? |
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lumberjack_jeff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-30-10 11:37 AM Response to Reply #82 |
89. Exactly, precisely right. |
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XemaSab (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-30-10 05:34 PM Response to Original message |
110. I'm jumping in late |
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Shadow Creature (105 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-30-10 05:40 PM Response to Original message |
111. I think |
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TriMera (885 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-30-10 08:06 PM Response to Original message |
121. Actually, I can empathize... |
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jp11 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-30-10 08:30 PM Response to Reply #121 |
123. They won't be dead, the difference is you are planning your future as opposed to taking a course |
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burnsei sensei (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-30-10 08:36 PM Response to Original message |
124. Another set of salvos in |
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DU AdBot (1000+ posts) | Mon May 13th 2024, 01:55 AM Response to Original message |
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