Maybe we should let minorities give us some moral guidance when it comes to issues affecting them

Recently, there has been another bout of straight people telling gay people what to think about a gay related issue(s).

While they certainly have that right, I humbly suggest that the smarter way of doing things (if one is interested in growing as a human being) would be for the straight folk here to listen to the views of the gay DU'ers. Granted, no group is ever monolithic in thought or opinion, but there is often an overwhelming sentiment amongst gay people here - a sentiment that is able to give the non gay folk here a little window into the thoughts and feelings and worldview of a group of LGBT citizens that they otherwise might not be privy to.

This does not hold true just for the gay-straight divide. Quite often a racial incident occurs and we see some white people taking very strong stands one way, while the vast majority of the DU AA community takes an opposing view and is scorned for it. THe Henry Gates/profiling incident springs to mind. Wouldn't we learn more if we actually listened to black people, who actually grew up experiencing racial profiling on a daily basis than scoff from our armchairs that their worldview is invalid?

Ditto for Hispanics or Asians or women or any group that experiences America in a different way than the privileged majority does. (and yes, I know women are a numeric majority - but that's about where it stops - in every other way they are not quite yet as full citizens as men are).

I am as guilty of doing some of this non-listening as anyone. I try to remind myself though, that unless it is something I have firsthand knowledge of, I'm better off deferring to the truth and wisdom of someone who is directly affected and can work through the issue from the inside out - not the outside in.

We may still end up disagreeing, more than likely we will, but at least in the process of listening and hearing, we all may actually learn something.

...and what does being a cookie cutter cut out have to do w/honoring someone else's culture, gender or sexuality? :shrug:

i'm sincerely interested...

but something tells me we may not find out.

...i gave it a shot. :shrug:

Sounds reasonable to me.

against Kagan, then I will reply that there are multiple issues involved, beyond the political objectives of various parties. These issues include:

* the right of a person to choose how s/he defines herself/himself
* the right that even public people have to a private life
* the principle that nominations should be evaluated according the nominees' qualifications
* and the related feminist goal that women ought not be sexually objectified

Kagan herself is entitled to decide whether or not she self-identifies (say) as "gay." However she self-identifies, she is further entitled herself to choose what aspects of her private life and personal identity to make public. She should be evaluated for the court on the basis of her resume. There is no absolutely reason to sabotage or undermine the feminist project by allowing questions, about the sexuality or sexual identity of an older successful unmarried woman, to enter discussions about her suitability for the bench

I had this conversation with some of my younger co-workers who have lived priviledged lives. We were discussing the AZ law and finally I said you know what, "You are a white male that will never be stopped just because and no probable cause. It's just not going to happen"!!

He stated well if you have nothing to hide then why wouldn't you give your id to the police when they asked?

I responded because I have a right to privacy and if I am not suspected of any wrong doing then they don't have the right to approach me. He and the others don't understand that they are voluntarily giving up their rights to privacy.

Banging my head....sigh....

sorry you went through that MadMaddie. :hug:

but I suppose we can't totally give up on them. I did send them the Supreme Court rulings backing what I told them.....funny thing the only thing they could say was....they didn't agree with the ruling....:hi:

...you get an A+ for effort, MadMaddie--good on you for trying! 'they didn't agree w/the ruling'...good grief. :banghead: ...your patience should be commended as well. :hug::hi:

...you're being FAR too reasonable.

I'm gonna have to alert this thread - we can't be havin' any of THIS...
:silly:

During this last week, it has been something else to watch our perspectives dismissed out of hand. In one case, when a highly offensive, highly homophobic article was posted, literally every LGBTer in the thread tried to explain how offensive it was. The OP refused to concede there was any problem.

When every LGBT response to something you've said or posted on LGBT issues are all saying nearly the same thing, isn't it time for a rethink? Maybe just a little one?

Culture plays a big role in how we perceive bigotry and listen for it. A generation or two ago, many people would think nothing of hearing the word "colored" to describe African-Americans. Thanks to awareness in our culture, current generations have been raised to tilt their heads at the word and start scanning the accompanying statements for racism.

So it is with homophobia. There are words, sentiments, ideas, and arguments that LGBTers have heard a thousand times before. We know, upon hearing them, the kinds of ideas and sentiments that lurk just behind them.

We are still at a stage of homophobia in our culture where pointing these things out is too often considered by the privileged as a kind of mass hallucination shared by LGBTers. There are people who continue to assert that they've never seen homophobic sentiment on DU - and certainly not during the recent Kagan controversy. Not "very little" homophobia. None. Zip. Never noticed it.

There are days where I see little else but hostility, animosity, and dismissiveness towards LGBTers. For me, it is there in the plainest of language. For me, it is not mere subtle hostility, it is a Red Flag flown proudly and without apology by people all too comfortable and indifferent to inequality.

And we are tasked, with our ever shrinking numbers, to call it out again and again. Oftentimes in vain. Too often in vain.

The homophobia and sexism has shocked me.

People also need to be consistent with this.