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Colin Powell "Rumsfeld is delusional and deceptive and I can prove both points".

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Hamlette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 10:25 AM
Original message
Colin Powell "Rumsfeld is delusional and deceptive and I can prove both points".
Saw Col. Wilkerson on Ed's show last night (?) giving this quote about Rumsfeld saying we got tons of actionable intelegence from waterboarding.

I must have missed when Powell said it. Gotta love him for that one though.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/42908483#42908483

About 6 minutes in at the clip.
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elleng Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
1. Ditto, saw the same, Ham, and posted it.
Edited on Thu May-05-11 10:33 AM by elleng
Don't recall Powell saying it either, but Wilkerson's highly valuable in recording/reviewing the tragic events of those days.

p.s., They did a fine job wrecking lives and reputations, as well as careers, imo, including Powell's. And Condi will be on Lawrence show tonight. 'They' stepped all over Powell, and forced Condi to struggle to have her points of view heard, 'they' being rummy + cheney, and dimson failed examine what was going on in his admin, imo.
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LiberalAndProud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
2. Rumsfeld and Powell have been feuding for years, so this is no surprise.
They blame each other for their failures, it would seem. I think there's probably enough blame to go around.
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frickaline Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
3. I find it funny
that we believe our actions will somehow control the actions of crazy people to make them less crazy.
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DefenseLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
4. Delusional and deceptive? Sounds like Colin's presentation to the U.N.
Sorry General, no one leaves the Family.
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LiberalAndProud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. I can't forgive him for that.
Powell may be a good man, and he may share my distaste for Rumsfeld, but I watched his UN presentation, and I won't forget.
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. i'll never forget that they covered up that reproduction
of picasso's 'guernica'. they could have found a different place for their photo ops. showed me they were lying their asses off.
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emcguffie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #10
22. You mean the tapestry?
The tapestry, you mean.

I just looked this up online. I know the tapestry. I worked at the UN back then. I had never realized that that was when they started putting up the UN blue background for the stakeout outside the Security Council. They do it regularly now, and there was a time when they never did it. I guess that was when it started.

That was a very sad day, indeed. And I think he believed what he was saying, which I find extraordinary. At least, that's what he said later on.
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. yes, the tapestry.
the power of art is a strange thing. how great a statement is that painting that nearly 70 years later people cower? ( i am so jealous.)
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Keith Bee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #5
13. I can
He was given false info.
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LiberalAndProud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. I believe he knew it was false.
He's not a stupid man. I don't believe his conscience is clear. He has tried to justify himself to himself. Perhaps he has succeeded in that, but there is no justification for the lies he told in my mind. I absolutely believe he knew he was lying as he spoke. If he didn't, that makes him stupid. Again, he's not a stupid man.
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Honeycombe8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #5
25. Why do you hold that against him? They deceived him, too, you know. nt
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janet118 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Powell is given way too much credit . . .
He's always a day late and a dollar short in his outrage.

Remember, Powell's been kissing up to his superiors for years and years. He was one of those responsible for the cover-up of the My Lai Massacre in Vietnam.
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crickets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #6
24. "He was one of those responsible for the cover-up of the My Lai Massacre in Vietnam."
Thank you. Too many people either have forgotten or don't know about that.
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RT Atlanta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #4
11. Well said regarding the UN presentation
If the Gen. knew it to be so, why did he participate in the furtherance of the fraud?
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Honeycombe8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #11
26. He didn't know it to be so at that time. He found out later he'd been duped along w/many others.
He'd been made the stooge. Rummy & Bush & others knew they couldn't tell Powell the whole truth, or he wouldn't have made the UN presentation. They needed the presentation to be made by Powell; he had the best image of the administration, and was thought to be truthful and was highly respected. That's why the presentation did as well as it did (but apparently didn't convince France, to its credit).

He talks about this in some book he wrote.
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
7. Powell is the man who sold the world
No honor in him, and as it stands he is perhaps the worst of the Bushies, because he is the one who knew better and lied to the UN anyway.
Powell can go fuck himself, he is nothing but Rummy's handmaid.
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snagglepuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Exactly nt
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Guy Whitey Corngood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Thank you. I'm not forgetting that any time soon. And I have to wonder if he's been acting
different lately because of a genuine change of heart. Or because he's worried about the way he ended his sad career. I guess I'll never know. I tend to think that if all the fuck ups of the Jr. administration would have been "successes" instead Mr Powell would be singing a different tune today.
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LiberalAndProud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. I think he acted against his better judgment when he spoke at the UN.
That is why I begrudge him so fiercly. He knew better. He KNEW better.

Fuck him.
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Guy Whitey Corngood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. If the Woodward account of the night before the UN circus is to be believed he literally
said this is bullshit. His speech was then tweaked a bit to take out some of the more egregious shit. But he damn well knew that it was still 98% bullshit and went ahead anyway. Not to mention that if he had any sense from his years as a military man. He must have known this would overstretch an already stretched out military which was being shortchanged by Rumsfeld anyway. So yes you're right on.
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LiberalAndProud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. I don't disbelieve that account. I wonder what reality we would be living
if Powell had resigned in protest rather than acting the toady. We will never know, but at least Powell would have retained some integrity.
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Guy Whitey Corngood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. And don't get me wrong. I think he has a lot mere to answer for when it comes to
his kissing up to Reaganites during their reign of destruction in Central America, Iran Contra, etc. Some might even say since his Vietnam days. But this for sure had to be his lowest point. I would have viewed him totally different if like you said he had resigned and told people the truth. Lawrence Wilkerson would have gone right along with him.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #7
19. And part of Wilkerson's thing is rehabilitating Powell. n/t
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
18. The big issue I have about all this sort of thing, is this
NO ONE EVER SAYS OR DOES ANYTHING IN REAL TIME WHEN IT WOULD MATTER, OR COULD CHANGE HISTORY.

They all wait until time passes and they can "write their book" or get paid as a media consultant

Hoe many people have their lives ended because some muckety-mucks wanted to keep that cushy job, and dared not say anything.:grr:
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
20. Excuse me if I stop WAY short of "loving" Colon, but I'll splurge on popcorn
to watch him and Darth Rums go at it.

Colon built a whole career out of kissing Old White Males' asses, going back to the My Lai cover-up, not just his Iraq Attack episode.
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Carolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
21. he should talk
Mr. Mi Lai has a lot of nerve after selling the alleged Iraq threat to the United Nations with his deceptive vials!

His credibility is nil and his comments about Rummy typify the old adage that there's loyalty among thieves (or crooks, liars, warmongers/profiteers, whatever).
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