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judy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-11 11:21 AM
Original message
About the "Geronimo" issue...
I just wish Native American activists would take on more useful and important struggles, such as sovereignty on Indian lands, reparations in the form of free education and healthcare, and handing back of Indian territories with apologies as the Australians did at Uluru.

Goyaale was the name of the chief, and "Geronimo" was a name given to him by those who spoke only Spanish and did not respect the Chiricahuas or their language.

So it doesn't really matter that the CIA used that name for a most wanted person - and let's not even get into the fact that he was an enemy who had been an ally at other times, or who did the most killing in the end after September 11th 2001...

But why fight to defend a name that wasn't his and was given to him by those who sought to destroy him?
Maybe instead it would be better to insist that he be called Goyaale and not Geronimo (Spanish translation of Jerome, and definitely not an Apache name).
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-11 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
1. unrec
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CountAllVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-11 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
2. what do you think Geronimo was all about?
He was Apache and he fought the Americans who were busy stealing land from his people and killing them.

Using the name "Geronimo" was IMO stupid, plain stupid. I guess they couldn't come up with a better name than that to capture the minds and imaginations of the troops, I don't know.

Nonetheless, they could have called it almost anything else.

You might care to watch this film that is all about Geronimo's life. It was a sad life.

“We have different perspectives on the person, on the man — who he was, how he lived his life, why he did what he did, and how that affected the rest of the tribe.”

— Tim Harjo (Chiricahua Apache)

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/weshallremain/the_films/episode_4_trailer

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judy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-11 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I do know a little bit about him...
and I also know that a movie was made about him that inspired the paratroopers during WWII to scream "Geronimo!" to give themselves courage when they jumped out of an airplane.

My perspective on him is of great reverence, and his story is a symbol of the incredible arrogance of white men who felt they were superior to everyone else (though their civilization probably originates from Iraq!) and of how they felt they could humiliate those whose families they had murdered.

My point is that the name "Geronimo" was given to him by his enemies, and does not represent him, at least in my view.
But it seems that my post was inflammatory to some. For this I apologize.
I often wish that the First Americans would rise up (in nonviolent struggle) and assert their right to the land, their pride, and refuse to be used as canon fodder for the white men's wars of greed.

But that's just me, I guess...
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CountAllVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-11 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Indian people in this country are doing what they can
It isn't easy for any of them whether recognized by the Federal government or not.

Where I live, the local tribe just bought up 20,000 acres of their land back. They aren't just sitting around doing nothing.

To me this is far more powerful than playing politics with some old geezer that hates the Indian and yes, there are plenty of them to be found and many of them resent Indian people. The hatred still lives, believe me. :(

Geronimo ... not the name I would have chosen.



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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-11 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
3. you don't think Native American activists DO take on such issues? You don't think they know
the history of his name?

FWIW, as I understand it (based on his autobiography and other things I've read), the fact that the name was attached to him in battle made the name all the more significant. The Spanish didn't respect the Chiricahuas or their language, but they sure as hell respected (and feared) the warrior Geronimo.
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judy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-11 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Respected him?
Is that why they murdered his family, and humiliated him?
What are you talking about? Feared, yes, but respected? I don't think so...
But that was not my point anyway...and sorry if I offended anyone.

During WWII, the paratroopers used that name "Geronimo!" to inspire and give themselves courage (after they had seen a movie about him)
Who knows why the CIA picked that name, maybe it was to indicate that mission had been accomplished with courage, and not a nickname for OBL himself.
But again, that was not my point.

There are bigger battles to fight than to bristle under what is perceived as an insult, when your ancestors were victims of a genocide, and you are confined to land over which you supposedly have sovereignty except when the white man deems that there is coal or minerals on your land...and you have no jobs no means of subsistance, and people like Leonard Peltier are kept in prison and denied parole even though the original witnesses recanted...and Geronimo was not his name anyway...

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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-11 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #7
19. as a warrior
"There are bigger battles to fight than to bristle under what is perceived as an insult, when your ancestors were victims of a genocide, and you are confined to land over which you supposedly have sovereignty except when the white man deems that there is coal or minerals on your land...and you have no jobs no means of subsistance, and people like Leonard Peltier are kept in prison and denied parole even though the original witnesses recanted...and Geronimo was not his name anyway..."

Perhaps. But I think Native American leaders and activists can decide for themselves whether this is worth issuing a statement about.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-11 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. +1. Your last line is right down to the heart of the matter. nt
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-11 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
6. Why do you believe that NDN activists are not constantly addressing these issues?
On April 29, Spartan Youth Radio posted a video to YouTube of the September 2010 rally for Native American education. Natives and their supporters marched on Parliament Hill in Canada to demand more funding for Native education in Canada.

Marchers carried signs like “Don’t mess with success!” and “We are all treaty people,” and “My education helps all Canadians.”

“They have been stealing resources from our land for years and it’s time for them to start paying it back to us,” one rally participant told the other attendees.

http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2011/05/native-people-and-supporters-rally-for-native-education/

http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/

http://www.ndnnews.com/
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judy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-11 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Thank you Zorra,
I appreciate the info in the links!

Actually, I have also heard that "Geronimo" was the name given to the mission itself, and not to Bin Laden. His name was something else, though I have forgotten what it was...
They say so in ICMN, and I am beginning to feel that all this is pushed by the media to show that Native Americans protests on things that don't matter instead of celebrating with the rest of the American people. A much more negative thing, if you ask me...

I understand everything you said, and I know and support everything that Native Americans do. I participate in fundraising for various colleges, and aid to Navajo Elders.

Sometimes I get upset, and I wish there was a huge movement of Indian Pride...nonviolent and powerful...

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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-11 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #10
20. With all due respect, a "large movement of (Indian) pride" might be just what
they are trying to do." this gets media attention they can't get regarding widespread poverty, disease, and lack of education.

This issue touches on "political correctness" and causes people like you to question their motives--and most WASPS like me to pay attention. It took a single tired woman an an Alabama bus to set off a sea change, if you recall.

When you have an injustice and the media finds you, it's inane to NOT capitalize on it.

Besides, if they're offended by it, I'll take their word for it and stop using it. My momma raised me up that way.
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-11 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #10
22. You're welcome.
There are very many complex issues and problems that have arisen from past and present direct as well as passive attempts to forcibly assimilate indigenous Americans into European Judaeo-Christian based US culture/society.

Perspectives are very different in many ways.

Peace.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-11 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
8. I just wish I could have a pony.
Edited on Sat May-07-11 01:01 PM by blondeatlast
Yeah, I said that.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-11 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
9. Because when you are oppressed, and the MSM takes notice, it's best to capitalize
on it.

It was just an exhausted woman that day in Alabama...
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-11 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
11. Unrec. Do you seriously believe NA activists aren't working on those issues? Seriously?
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-11 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. +1. nt
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judy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-11 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. No.
Edited on Sat May-07-11 01:14 PM by judy
I myself work on NA issues...
I just wish I had more courage, and we all had more real strength and pride. We, meaning us all...not just Native Americans.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-11 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Do tell. nt
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judy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-11 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Well, I wish I could do more...
I finance and work with an Institute that preserves Native American culture and I have started to take action to teach in a college in Arizona when I retire from my job.
It is not much, I know...
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-11 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. So you're getting down there on the reservations and helping out with the
Edited on Sat May-07-11 01:31 PM by blondeatlast
poverty, lack of education, and disease.

Good for you.

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PufPuf23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-11 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
17. What do you know about the Cobell vs. Salazar settlement?
Cobell vs Salazar was settled during POTUS Obama's WH.

The class action dispute addressed monetary damages to the Indian People for mis-management and fraudulant sales of Indian assets by the BIA (part of the DOI, hence Salazar) over many years.

What is your opinion of the settlement?

IMO it sucks.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-11 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
18. Why don't you ask your Native American friends (post 15) instead of us? nt
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Obamanaut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-11 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
23. An absolute 'rec' nt
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