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Pit bulls' reputation takes new hit -65 percent of all fatal dog attacks nationally in 2008

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The Straight Story Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 11:22 AM
Original message
Pit bulls' reputation takes new hit -65 percent of all fatal dog attacks nationally in 2008
Pit bulls' reputation takes new hit
Doctors, nurses say injuries prove danger,but others disagree.

Weary of mending the mauled victims of dog attacks, doctors and nurses looked back at 15 years of serious bite injuries treated at University Hospital and produced a study likely to offer new ammunition for those looking to ban or regulate pit bulls.

They found that attacks by pit bulls were more likely to kill people than those by other breeds. In fact, all three deaths seen at the hospital during the period — two children and a 90-year-old man — were from pit bull attacks, records showed. A fourth fatality wasn't seen at the hospital, a 64-year-old Von Ormy man also killed by a pit bull, death records show.
...

“Fortunately, fatal dog attacks are rare, but there seems to be a distinct relationship between the severity and lethality of an attack and the breed responsible,” they wrote in an article published in the April issue of the medical journal Annals of Surgery. “These breeds should be regulated in the same way in which other dangerous species, such as leopards, are regulated.”

...

Among the grisly statistics the study cites: Pit bulls were responsible for 65 percent of all fatal dog attacks nationally in 2008. In Texas in 2007, seven fatal attacks occurred, six involving pit bulls. Someone in the United States is killed by a pit bull every 14 days. One body part is severed and lost in pit bull attacks every 5.4 days.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local_news/article/Pit-bulls-reputation-takes-new-hit-1370739.php

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icnorth Donating Member (954 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
1. Every so often things work out just about right...
Canada Standard
Tuesday 26th April, 2011
(Source: The Globe and Mail)

A 25-year-old man faces charges after police allege a pitbull was urged to attack a homeowner, but ended up biting its owner. Police in Sudbury, Ont., say a man was walking a pitbull Monday night and stopped to urinate in a neighbour's yard, leading to an argument with the homeowner. It's alleged the dog owner tried to have the animal attack the neighbour - but the dog attacked him instead. Another person pulled the dog away, and the dog owner left after the homeowner fended off an attack. Investigators say the dog owner returned with another man for a second assault, but at that point police arrived.The pitbull owner is charged with assault, assault with a weapon and breach of probation....
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dana_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. except that dog will probably be put down
because of the stupidity of its owner.
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icnorth Donating Member (954 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #5
12. Maybe not if the police consider the
dog's intelligence and have its owner put down instead. ;)
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dana_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #12
28. lol - thanks for the laugh. n/t
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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
2. sometimes a reputation
is well deserved. i know people love their pit bulls but i would not own one.
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tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #2
37. The problem with pibbies--which by the way can be the most
sweet and wonderful pets, is that they are so darned powerful, and so much of that power is in their jaws. If you are bitten and chewed on by an anima with that kind of jaw power, you are going to be more severely injured. On top of that, pibbies are very persistent, so if one attacks, it wll be hard to get it to stop the attack.

But the real problem is bad owners who get these excellent animals and then deliberately raise them to be unsocialiized and dangerous. It is really the owner that is dangerous, because he has deliberately made his dog into a weapon, always ready to go off. Also, many pit bull owners are so irresponsible that you cannot assume they willl keep their dogs from running loose, creting a real threat to other people in the area.

Nevertheless, the many pit bulls and pit bull mixes I have interacted with in my 60 years are some of the nicest dogs I have ever known.
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formernaderite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #37
56. thank you
had one for twelve years, the best dog I have ever known. The old axiom is true.. all dogs can bite. I guess I'm old enough to have lived through all sorts of dog breeds being labeled public enemy #1. I remember having neighbors who had dobermans in the 70's. People in the neighborhood thought they were crazy. I've known much more aggressive small dogs, but of course their bite isn't quite as powerful. I have been bitten by my brother's dachshund. One of the most painful things ever, then again it was my hand. Did I ask my brother to put the dog down? Of course not... it's an animal.
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tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #56
59. Dachshunds were bred to be burrowing ratters. They also have a very
Edited on Sun May-08-11 08:00 PM by tblue37
powerful bite, and if they were any bigger than they are, they'd do a lot more damage; in fact, they can already do quite a lot, even at their small size. A friend's dachshund (who actually is a very good dog who loves me because I play with him all the time) mistook me for--who knows what?--once when I arrived unexpectedly and was using a cane and carrying a large canvas bag. He quite obviously didn't recognize me, and quite possibly didn't even realize I was a person, since my configuration at that momentwas so odd to him. Anyway, he bit me on the shin, and the bite took a surprisingly long time to heal!

If he had been a larger dog, he would probably have done permanent damage, but his small size limited the damage his powerful little jaws could do!
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #37
58. You speak to the issue which seems to separate this breed from others, their powerful
jaws along with their determination. I would think muzzles could be one answer for when the dog is
in public, but I wonder if those who encourage aggressive behavior in their pit bull would likely
ignore that regulation.

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tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 06:26 AM
Response to Reply #58
72. Exactly. The problem with pit bulls is almost *always* a problem with
a**hole owners who get the dogs specifically to raise to be as aggresive as possible--even when they are not training them as fighters. Often these are swaggering young men who use their scary dogs as a status symbol of the worst sort, and such idiohats ve no desire to render their dogs less scary to other people.

My neighbor has the sweetest pit bull mix in the world. Miles (the dog) is, of all the many dogs I have ever known, the very, very, very best. I absolutely adore the precious creature.

Unfortunately, the poor dear, who is only 4 years old, is suffering from an aggressive canine papilloma virus that has spread and that they cannot seem to get under control. The owner has limited funds, and I have offered to help pay as much as I can, but my funds are drastically limited, too, especially in the summertime, so there is a real risk that she might have to have him put to sleep if he suffers too much and we cannot afford more treatment.

I can't tell you how much this hurts me even to think of. He is so good, so sweet, and so very, very beautiful. He's a mix, and I think his other part must be Vischla. He is large, muscular but gracile rather than bulky looking, and a gorgeous gold/copper-red shade. So very beautiful. Simply one of the most beautiful dogs I've ever known, and by far the most adorable (and I am someone who has adored many, many dogs--my own and others').

She rescued him. Some couple took him to their vet at one year old and asked to have him put to sleep then because they had a baby coming and didn't want him any more! (Can you even imagine such ugliness?) The vet wouldn't do it, because he was young, healthy, and such a sweetheart. Instead, he kept the dog at his clinic for the next 6 months, almost as a "greeter," and sent out requests for anyone who needed a dog to come and check him out. My neighbor got a "blast" email at the junior college library where she was working, from a co-worker who knew the vet, so she went to check him out, fell in love, and adopted him on the spot.

Several years ago she had a precious, sweet bulldog who died just before she turned 4, and if she loses Miles this year, when he is only 4, I think she will be too afraid to ever get another dog, though she is an ideal dog owner. But losing two young dogs in a row like that feels to her like losing children (she is 32 years old and unmarried, so her dogs are her babies). I know the feeling. I quit owning ferrets after losing three, because their lifespan is only 5-8 years, and even though you always suffer a loss when adopting a pet, at least cats and dogs usually have somewhat longer lifespans than 5 or 8 years. But for my neighbor, 4 years seems to be the limit, and it is destroying her.

I am still trying to figure out a way to raise money fo her so that if saving his life ultimately on money, I can help prevent his early demise.

I know so many darling pit bulls and pit bull mixes. I understand the fear of such powerful creatures, but unless the owner is a jerk, these dogs are unlikely ever to cause trouble. It's just that of all the dog breeds, these are the dogs most likely to have bad owners, and since they are so powerful, a bad owner can render them deadly.

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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #72
85. I hope your friends dog situation improves, it's sad to lose a dear pet.
I'm not sure what will help with regulating ownership, or how practical that would be to enforce. I imagine
responsible breeders already screen their buyers. The figures listed in the Op are disturbing, so more education
on the topic can't hurt.

Best wishes for your friend and Miles....great name btw.

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shireen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 01:42 AM
Response to Reply #37
68. +1
yes, totally agree. They're sweethearts.

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Hassin Bin Sober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
3. Uh oh! Now you gone and done it.
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Ernesto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
4. Facts is Facts..... n-t
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
6. in the late 1800`s well into th 1900`s pit bulls were the most popular breed
they were popular because they were the best breed for children and families. hell "our gang" dog was a pit bull.

pit bulls are only as good as their masters.
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Shagbark Hickory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. They're dangerous for the same reason loaded guns are dangerous...
If one goes off, there's no do-overs.
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #6
33. petey was a bull terrier. not the same dog. b
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intheflow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #6
43. The nursery dog in the book Peter Pan was a Staffordshire Terrier -
one of the pit breeds. Disney that turned it into a St. Bernard for their movie, but Barrie knew the breed loyalty and child protective qualities of pits.
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surrealAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #43
53. This isn't true. You made me look it up:
J. M. Barrie wrote: "... this nurse was a prim Newfoundland dog, called Nana who had belonged to no one in particular until the Darlings engaged her."
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hollowdweller Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
7. Thing about Pit Bulls

Is really that the perception is more like the story of the owner sicking him on somebody else. A guard dog or attack dog, which they can be.

HOWEVER the reality is that they are generally really friendly good natured dogs that are great around people until the switch is thrown and a lot of times it's impossible to tell what threw the switch.

Also just like guns in a way, the stats often show that they end up injuring others in the family, ore even their owners rather than people who threaten them.

I've never known any friend or aquaintance that had their pit bull attack a person at random. However I have known several whose pit bulls attacked them or their kids without warning. These same people also went on about how it's the owner and not the dog all the time up until it attacked them or their friends or family. Then they switched to something that happened to the dog before they adopted it.

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Shagbark Hickory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. they have very powerrful jaws. All breeds bite but when these bite, there's no do-overs. nt
Edited on Sun May-08-11 11:49 AM by Shagbark Hickory
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Hassin Bin Sober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Most troubling, is their track record of killing adults.
Any breed can and will kill a small child or an infant. But you hear story after story of these dogs going after and killing adults.

I remember listening to one 911 call where the two Pits killed the caller's mother in the front yard. Family pets. It wasn't a case of mis-identification either - the dogs were identified as "Red Nosed Pits" by the owner.
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deaniac21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. I'venever seen a gun attack at random either but they seem to
be less emotional than pit bulls.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 02:29 AM
Response to Reply #7
69. I have two friends who have pit bulls. One has a female who is as friendly and
easygoing as any lab or golden. The other two friends have a male that scares the hell out of me. They love him to bits, but there are things that they say that they "don't understand" about him. If you reach into any container or drawer in front of him he'll growl or "air chomp" at your hands or face. I started to give one of his owners a shoulder rub and he growled and looked as if he were about to attack. I can't pet him without getting snapped at. I've known these people for decades and have bonded with every dog they've ever had in no time, but not this pitbull. He's very scary and I worry about them.
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nonperson Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
10. Try telling that to this family
http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2011/05/04/pit-bull-named-spcalas-hero-dog-of-the-year/

Or this one.

http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/communities/hammonton_egg-harbor-city/article_d17d114e-9cdd-11df-bbf4-001cc4c03286.html

Or this one.

http://www.fox28.com/Global/story.asp?S=12773449

Pits are one of the most intelligent, loyal, loving breeds. Humans are the problem. Dogs of any breed aren't the problem. Problem owners are the problem.
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leftyladyfrommo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. The problem is that it doesn't matter who is at fault - dog or owner
When one of those dogs attacks its very bad news. It doesn't matter that it's not the dog's fault. Someone is still dead or horribly injured. All thosse stupid guys who think its so macho to have a "bad ass" dog.

It's a horrible life for the dogs - look at Michael Vick's dogs. The abuse done to those dogs was just awful and he should be in prison for that - not out playing fottball again.

A friend of mine had a cousin with a pit bull that was always just fine. Until one day when a little girl rode by the fence on her bike. That set the dog off. He went right over the fence and attacked the child. She wasn't killed but she was hurt and terrified. And ended up at the hospital.

We had another man here in the KC area that was riding his lawn mower and was attacked by three pitts. He is still alive but they tore one of his arms off and mutilated his face - his nose is gone now.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #10
26. i had a neighbor with two and trained them mean. assuring knowing we couldnt go in front yard
because the owner was the ass and the pits really werent the problem...
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JonLP24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
13. I think Donnie Beaver has interesting things to say
Edited on Sun May-08-11 12:04 PM by JonLP24
One I will say personally is I think they off the mark with the without warning. It can appear that way with most dogs

. Aggressive behavior develops in dogs in ways many humans don't notice and don't understand. Example, a dog will sometimes attack when the dog feels threatened from the dog's perspective, regardless if the human see's it differently. This is way it is important to supervise young children around pets because they understand this less and may not know the appropriate way to handle an animal. There is also a lot of misdirected aggression seen in dogs. A dog may have been attacked viscously by another dog and that causes the dog to show aggressive behavior later in life. Boredom, not socialized, so it is important to socialize dog with other people, dogs, and give them plenty of exercise.

In all it is very rare for dogs to attack humans. Ever humans who use the breed to fight, they very intolerant of biting so in many cases they are remarkably submissive to humans. Many organizations take these dogs, in many ways turn them better, and find them homes.
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
15. "One body part is severed and lost in pit bull attacks every 5.4 days."
That is incredible.

These dogs are really dangerous.
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Liberal_in_LA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #15
22. strong jaws! I'm glad kitties don't have strong jaws! They can be just as moody but can't do the
damage.
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leftyladyfrommo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #22
54. Oh, yes they can.
I work with animals for a living. The two worst bites I ever got were cats that had been injured.

They can really bite if they are scared or hurt. And the teeth are like needles so they are dangerous puncture wounds. Only two times I ever ended up in the ER.
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sybylla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #54
81. Yes, cats kill people and sever limbs all the time.
Jeezy Creezy.
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DrDan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #15
38. +1 - very dangerous
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Lucky Luciano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
16. Maybe it is because some assholes (5% or so) in the projects specifically
Edited on Sun May-08-11 12:24 PM by Lucky Luciano
train their dogs to be vicious. They even kidnap people's dogs to be used as bait against their fighters. Recently, in my neighborhood, some people's dogs were stolen when they tied their dog up outside while going into a deli. Also, some pits were recently stolen from an animal shelter - I am pretty sure they would be used for fighting. I know a person in put rescue that has dealt with these shitfucks too often.

Dog fighting convictions should be 20 years of mandatory lock up with no parole.
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Hassin Bin Sober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Yes, I had a cop here in Chicago warn me about that.
I thought she was going to bitch at me for tying my dog to the bike rack in front of the coffee shop. She only wanted to warn me about the dog thefts in the neighborhood. While she was telling me about the problem, a guy sitting near by piped in to say someone attempted to walk off with his dog the prior week.
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JonLP24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. You're sadly mistaken if you think dogfighting is all in the projects
Edited on Sun May-08-11 12:27 PM by JonLP24
It takes place in mostly rural locations and dogfighters come from all walks of life.

Edit-I missed your "some" part but bait dogs are used commonly throughout dogfighting. Just disputing it isn't only in the projects but more likely to be in a rural location.
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Lucky Luciano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. All walks of life and all with zero class. 20 years mandatory. nt
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SOS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. Whether rural or urban
The police should raid these fights with much more vigor.
Not only for the sake of the dogs.
Many of these lowlife skells probably have warrants.
The cops could save the dogs and sweep up some garbage at the same time.
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JonLP24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Here is an article you might like
Edited on Sun May-08-11 12:35 PM by JonLP24
It is a little long but it goes into some of the challenges that go into uncovering these rings(in this case-the largest at the time the article was written). In this situation they actually posed as dogfighters, training dogs for prizefights. However they requested draws as much as possible and saved losing dogs that were going to be put down. I have mixed feelings about their methods but appreciate what they accomplished. The detective featured, Terry Mills, is now a member of the ASPCA.

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/2010-09-02/news/dog-beat-dog-to-pull-off-the-biggest-pit-bull-fighting-bust-in-u-s-history-investigators-and-their-dogs-went-undercover/
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SOS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. Whether rural or urban
The police should raid these fights with much more vigor.
Not only for the sake of the dogs.
Many of these lowlife skells probably have warrants.
The cops could save the dogs and sweep up some garbage at the same time.
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nosmokes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #16
50. No need to get racist.
Plenty of Bubbas in the burbs that have the same mentality and not enough manhood to stand on their own w/o a four legged crutch. Just look at who bought all those hummers.
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Lucky Luciano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. I am only speaking of my knowledge in the city. I live a couple blocks
from some of these areas - and most people in the projects LOVE doggies - so many of them love my pit who is the sweetest mush there ever was...but all dog fighting in NYC is in the projects. As another poster mentioned above, there are plenty of crackers doing the same in rural areas. All the people involved in dog fighting are no class shitbags.
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
19. The problem is that some of the people who adopt pit bulls
do so for the wrong reasons. Any dog can have a bad temperament and can turn out to be dog-aggressive or people-aggressive. A responsible person views this as a problem- gets the animal neutered or spayed and invests in training.

An irresponsible person does nothing or even encourages the dog's bad behavior. Unfortunately there are a lot of pit bulls up for adoption and a lot of irresponsible people looking to adopt dogs. Pit bulls can be aggressive. Its a bad combination.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
27. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
PeaceNikki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. Yup
And this will be my only comment on this thread.

And an unrec.
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
30. See many chihauhaus herding shep? That's because dogs are bred for specific characteristics.
Pit bulls were bred to fight.

From a pro-pit bull website (http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/breedinfo.html):

As with all breeds, the Pit Bull has positive and negative traits in their temperament. Their breed history has led to a dog unlike any other in the history of purebred dogs. What can you expect from an APBT? First and foremost, memorize the following: THE GOLDEN RULE OF PIT BULL OWNERSHIP- NEVER TRUST YOUR PIT BULL NOT TO FIGHT!!!!! This breed is descended from pit dogs one way or another, and, given the right circumstances, most Pit Bulls will fight and against any other breed, they will win (you really don't want to see that!). Scared yet? You should be. Remember, as the owner of a Pit Bull everything you or your dog do will affect all members of the breed and their families. Pit Bull owners have to be extra vigilant 24/7, period. You need to be receptive, have strong leadership, and be able to read canine body language to recognize signs of tension between housemates. You need to be prepared to separate the dogs if tensions develop. You need to know when your dog may become aggressive and you need to have control of your dog under any circumstances.


When things go wrong with pit bulls the end result is often tragic, especially for young children. That pit bull owners should be more responsible is absolutely no comfort to those injured by the attacks and no comfort to those who lost children or loved ones to such attacks.

In a perfect world all pet owners would be responsible. This is not a perfect world.
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meow mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
31. caused by owners who make them aggressive...
sure they are a powerful dog but its humans who are training them badly.
ceaser never has problems with his pits.

maybe a license of some kind, for people to accquire... is going to be needed.
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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #31
67. Breeding has a lot to do with it too
There are a hell of a lot of backyard-bred pit bulls. Backyard breeding is bad in all instances but when you're dealing with a dog this powerful, it's especially bad.
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Cali_Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
32. It's the owners obviously
Morons who think its cool to train pit bulls to be vicious.
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Edweird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
34. As a once and future Pit Bull owner their reputation is unblemished as far as I am concerned.
Mine was a stray and had some
behavioral problems but became
an amazing companion and cherished
family member after some work.
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quinnox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
35. I hate those pit bulls
In general I dislike dogs, but pit bulls are so big and menacing, and they back it up with being aggressive, can't stand them.
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RebelOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
36. I have owned 2 pit bulls and 2 Rottweilers
and you could not find any sweeter dogs than mine. I know it has to be the owners who want to make them aggressive. I now have a Chihuahua, a French bull dog and a miniature Pinscher. The Pinscher and the bull dog are big babies and love people. But the Chihuahua would put any aggressive pit bull to shame. She hates everyone but me. She is a biter and attacks any stranger who comes into my house. I didn't raise her that way because I have had her since she is 6 weeks old. I think that is just in a Chihuahua's nature. My son had 7 pit bulls and a bunch of Chihuahuas because he bred them. I would trust the pit bulls far more than those nasty mean Chihuahuas.
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DrDan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. and this proves what exactly . . . .
these dogs pose a danger to those they do not know - not to their owners.
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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #36
40. i have a chihuahua
and he is nothing like that at all. he barks at the door and that's it. has never bit anyone, except me one time when he had gotten hold of a chicken leg and i took it away from him. it was fried and still on the bone and oh did he want that chicken. but otherwise my chihuahua has such a beautiful disposition. i was heartbroken when i had to have him neutered because he was a cryptochord and if i've left him alone his chances of contracting cancer increased tenfold. he loves all dogs and people and is an absolutely wonderful pet.
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #36
42. I was attacked by a chihuahua when I was 2
:(
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Brickbat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #36
44. Any dog can be a dick at any time. The sweetest dog in the world bit me when I was a kid, and the
Edited on Sun May-08-11 03:56 PM by Brickbat
meanest, ugliest, dumbest dog would lie down next to me and guard me when I was a baby (he would also chase my dad off when he tried to pick me up). I like dogs, and have two, but I accept that any dog can feel threatened and react unexpectedly at any time. I think a lot of people personify their dogs so much they forget they're animals.
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Thegonagle Donating Member (548 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #36
45. The difference betw. pits and chihuahuas isn't necessarily their temperment or socialization,
but the fact that "wawas" weigh less than a Tabby cat, and can't even begin to do the damage that an athletic, 70-90 lb breed with large jaws can do.

And if your chihuahua attacked me, I could overpower that dog and even hold it alive in order to stop the attack. If a pit attacks me, I'm not so sure I could stop it without killing it--and I say without hesitation, I will do whatever I can to stop that dog; I will kill your pet pit.
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RebelOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #45
62. I don't know about my Chihuahua doing much damage,
because she tore my son's hand up pretty good when he went to grab her. As far as killing my pet pit. neither he nor my Rotties ever attacked a person or another dog or even a cat, though they had the chance. One of my Rotties was attacked by a stray cat and she did not even attack back. All she did was bark until I scared the critter off
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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
41. How about pit bull owner's reputation?
There's nice pit bulls, and fine pit bull owners, but I think the statistic shows not so much that pit bulls are meaner by nature, but that they are a dog of choice for those who want to raise a mean fighting dog. Its as much a people issue as a dog issue.

I've got a beagle myself, who is quiet and sweet and loves kids and games and so forth...
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
46. I do not always maul people. But when I do, I use Beagles
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johnaries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 04:17 PM
Response to Original message
47. And exactly HOW did they know they were actually pit bulls?
Many breeds and mixes are misidentified as Pit Bulls. Anf the whole "bite pressure" is a myth.

“Pit Bulls have more bite pressure per square inch (PSI) than any
other breed.”
This is absolutely false.

Tests that have been done comparing the bite pressure of several
breeds showed pressure PSI (per square inch) to be considerably lower
than some wild estimates that have been made. Testing has shown that
the domestic dog averages about 320 lbs of pressure per square inch.
Recently Dr. Brady Barr of National Geographic conducted a comparative
test between a Pit Bull, a Rottweiler, and a German Shepherd. The Pit
Bull had the LOWEST PSI OF THE THREE.

The highest pressure recorded from the Pit Bull was 235 lbs PSI. The
highest from the GSD was 238, and the highest from the Rott was 328.
Dr. Barr states that as far as he knows, the PSI tested in the Rott is the
highest on record for any domestic canine.

What happened to the supposed 10,000 pounds PSI pressure that the
breed supposedly has??? It's a MYTH, pure and simple.

Watch the video!

THERE HAVE NEVER been ANY TESTS done to prove that the APBT has
bite pressure PSI higher than what has been tested by Dr. Barr.

“Pit Bulls attack more people than any other breed.” Bite statistics are
difficult to obtain accurately. Dogs that are referred to as “pit bulls” in
statistical reports actually are a variety of breeds and mixes all lumped
together under the “pit bull” heading. Also, many people have a difficult
time properly identifying a true Pit Bull, so added to the statistics are
those dogs that have been misidentified. Considering these factors, the
actual number of attacks attributable to American Pit Bull Terriers is
considerably lower than represented. Also important to understand is
the extreme popularity of the Pit Bull and pit bull-type breeds. By some
estimates, numbers-wise they are the most popular of all dog breeds. It
is only logical to assume that the breed with the higher number of
individual dogs would be represented with a higher number of bites.
Viewing older statistical reports for the Center of Disease Control, one
will see that trends in breed popularity reflect in the number of bites
attributed to a specific breed during a specific period of time.


http://www.realpitbull.com/myths.html
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jtuck004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
48. They based a "study" on 3 deaths over a 15 year period? Not enough bites to incite
Edited on Sun May-08-11 04:38 PM by jtuck004
hysteria and panic, so they try to goose it along? They saw far more death and injury from poisoning, drowning, and falls to children. 36,000 people a year are killed in cars vs 30 or so in total from dogs of indeterminate breed, yet they try to divert attention with this? Some public service.

If you REALLY want to promote actions that demonstrably reduce dog bites:

1: Education. Canada has regular dog-bite avoidance training for kids in school in at least two grades, and they contract out seminars to those who employ meter readers and postal employees. Check for dog bite statistics in Calgary - nearly non-existent. See how empty their shelters are. What they are doing works. (Google Bill Bruce at the Calgary Animal Services - truly amazing results, based on thoughtful policies).

2: Spay/Neuter. Just make it available - it's cheaper. In North Carolina they found that paying vets to perform spay/neuter for any and all comers was far more cost-effective than than any method of enforcement in reducing the number of strays and the number of bites. The Montana Spay/Neuter Task Force holds "Community Events", gatherings that encourage the community to co-operate in a spay/neuter effort. They have 12+ years of public data about scores of "Events". Not only does their special format of an "Event" dramatically reduce bites, strays, and shelter admissions, but interviews and letters from pet owners speak to a new respect for their pet and more attention to their behavior in an urban setting. We did one of these with a nearby community where there was a problem with strays. Performed 138 (mostly dogs) surgeries in a weekend. They did not have to pick up a stray dog for a year. Not only does it reduce the litters, but it gives people a chance to see that there are ways to take care of their dogs, and other people who care. It changes behavior of people, which is the key to this. Something a ban will NEVER do.

Bans are a teabagger's approach to problem solving - myopic, simplistic, hurts the most vulnerable while letting those who are most able to avoid penalties. It often starts with bitter, angry people who turn their fight to hurt a neighbor into a crusade. It is spread by sensationalized (and often unsupportable) headlines that even the reporters find unprofessional here, much like Bush's "War on Terror". Like the reporting about WMD's, false conclusions and half-truths such as "One body part is severed and lost in pit bull attacks every 5.4 days." lead to actions that don't make people safer, and get some killed. Trained professionals in animal control will tell you that the BEST identification is problematic, and if so, what if you ban the wrong breed? A closer look at most of these incidents prove that the identification was not so clear cut, that many were mostly indeterminate mixed-breed dogs.

Even if such a danger does exist, is there any value in overblowing it, in making it seem more common than it is, other than to scare you into following what may not be your wisest course? The dangers from other sources are FAR more likely to hurt your children, and bans don't work, but you have to read books like this one, or look at sites like this one to learn what really works. The "breed ban" folks won't tell you that, 'cause your safety is not their motivation.

They don't care about your safety any more than the religious right cares about your afterlife. They are about control, about assuaging their own tortured souls, spreading their black-hearted hatred across the land like nuclear waste. If they really cared, why aren't they insisting that your existing "leash law" be vigorously enforced? Perhaps because they get more satisfaction out of seeing the neighbors dog seized than watching your kids play safely?

You listen to them at your, and your children's, peril.
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. No, they didn't based a study on three death over 15 years period.
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jtuck004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #49
63. You are correct. They "looked back at" 15 years worth of data with 3 fatalities.
"...doctors and nurses looked back at 15 years of serious bite injuries treated at University Hospital and produced a study...In fact, all three deaths seen at the hospital during the period — two children and a 90-year-old man..." - from the link in the post.

Thank you.



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DrDan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #48
52. generalize much?
your description of those that feel these dogs are dangerous and deserving of more control is jsut self-serving hyperbole.
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jtuck004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #52
64. A kid gets his ear and half his face torn off, one story in a local paper
if it's by a labrador, or a small dog. But if they can get anyone to say, or imply, or look like they are thinking "pit bull" it gets thrown in a headline that crosses the nation. Literally the only difference is that 250 outlets with millions of people see "pit bull" in that context, makes them think that it is a much greater danger than it is. That is not only documented by millions of newspapers, it is common behavior. Hyperbole.

30 deaths in a year, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_States. That's tragic. But every day in the United States, nearly 82 people die as a result of unintentional poisoning. We lose 34,000 a year to car wrecks.
About 123,000 to accidents of all kinds, of which 30 were reported as dog bites. Yet people make a career preaching their brand of hate-that-doesn't-do-anything-constructive standing on top of those 30 or so bodies. That's beyond hyperbole in my book, and for me begins a need for me to question who is pushing that agenda. Just like I look at the people at Westboro Baptist Church and their ministers of salvation.

I know a woman who went to the city council and actually had them considering a breed ban for the entire freakin' city, ('till they looked at the experience of other cities). She told me that she only wanted to hurt her neighbor, but if it took perfectly good dogs out of perfectly good homes and killed them, that was ok with her, as long as they got those "son of a bitches across the alley". Her cause is now evidence on the web site of at least one breed ban advocacy group, notorious for their lack of fact-based reporting.


~ To forget one's purpose is the commonest form of stupidity. ~
Friedrich Nietzsche

The point was we want to reduce bites an attacks, for everyone including children. Not beat up on our neighbors, or sell newspapers, or be someone who uses overblown fear to push a course of action that will ultimately result in getting people hurt while bites and attacks continue and scarce funds are wasted, (I can't decide who that reminds me of more - the Bush administration or the people with the teabags on their hats.)

To reduce bites -

1 - Educate people, at least a couple of times when they are very young, and then for those who might need to be trained for their job. That will provide an incredible rate of return for your investment.

2 - Provide public spay/neuter. A city can provide this by hiring vets to do nothing but this in areas of low-income where there are no vet services (the schools actively teach vet students to avoid locating in areas which may have lower average income, btw. Smart, and good for a vet - those machines, the help, the drugs, none of that is cheap, so cities need to pick up the slack for the safety of the kids, if nothing else).

The rest of that stuff is snake oil at best.

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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
55. And again, it isn't the breed, it isn't the dog,
It is the owners who are responsible for creating vicious monsters out of sweet dogs. If it wasn't pit bulls, it would be some other breed.

All of this blame the breed crap doesn't address the real culprits in this, the owners.
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Zax2me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #55
75. But it IS Pit Bulls. Over and over again.
Geez, if it isn't the breed, why is it ALWAYS THE BREED?!
Good lord.
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meow mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #75
76. because the breed is the most common choice of humans who want a living weapon
its not thier fault they have been brainwashed. if treated "normal" they would behave as such.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #75
78. Because about twenty five years ago, pit bulls became the bad boy dog du jour
Before that it was Dobermans, before that, German Shepherds. There has always been a certain segment of the population that wants a tough, big dog that they can train to be a vicious monster. Pit bulls are now the choice of that segment of society.

I grew up during the sixties, back when German Shepherds were the bad boy dog du jour. People thought my parents were crazy for having such "vicious" dogs living with us kids, but they were great family dogs. Now pit bulls face the same knee jerk prejudice, and the funny thing is, up until they became the bad boy dog du jour, the AKC actually recommended pit bulls as the best family dogs going, and did so for nearly fifty years straight.

I imagine that this too shall pass, and another breed will become bad boy dogs du jour, and pit bulls will go back to being their lovable selves. The sad thing is that the new breed will suffer the prejudice now handed out to pit bulls.
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 08:12 AM
Response to Reply #55
77. Have you ever heard of genes, DNA or genetics?
Edited on Mon May-09-11 08:12 AM by LisaL
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #77
80. Have you ever heard of training, socialization, and compatibility?
But it is a funny thing that you bring up genetics. Let me fill you in on the history of pit bull genetics. Yes, they were bred to fight other animals in a pit. But as part of that breeding, they had to be gentle with their human handlers. Pits who were vicious with other animals and their human handlers were systematically killed, weeding out the gene pool of dogs who were vicious towards humans.

This was so effective that even a prestigious organization like the AKC gave pit bulls their top recommendation as a family dog, because they were so gentle with all humans, including humans. Pits got this recommendation year in, year out, for over fifty years straight, up until the Great Pit Bull Scare started, about twenty five years ago.

What has changed isn't the genetics, pit bulls who attack humans are still put down on a regular basis. What has changed is the training pit bulls receive. Now, a serious percentage of the breed is being purposely trained to be vicious. Why? Because they are currently the bad boy dog du jour. Dobermans used to carry that title, as did German Shepherds. But now it is pits who carry that title. But I imagine that in the relatively near future, pit bulls will become passe, and the bad boys will move on to some other dog and turn them into vicious monsters. And the pit bull can go back to being the loveable family dog it really, truly, always has been.
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guitar man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
57. I'm not surprised
I mean, producing a statistic like that isn't hard at all. You take a half dozen or so breeds, lump 'em in with any mixed up mongrels that happen to have a blocky head and a wide chest and call them all "pit bulls" and sure, you could get a big number like that. :eyes:
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sarcasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 08:08 PM
Response to Original message
60. Kick.
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ErikJ Donating Member (480 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-11 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
61. Google news
Edited on Sun May-08-11 08:15 PM by ErikJ
I sometimes do a Google News of Pit Bull attacks and cant believe all the carnage these dogs do on a weekly basis. Even horses are killed by pits.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 12:36 AM
Response to Original message
65. My deleted response aside
This is still a crap article with a crap "study" meant to rile folks. Pathetic it's allowed to stand.
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Liquorice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 01:06 AM
Response to Original message
66. Years ago the Rottlweiler was the biggest dog menace, and before that
Edited on Mon May-09-11 01:08 AM by Liquorice
it was the Doberman. At one time we were all supposed to fear the Chow. Of course, what is really happening is a certain breed of dog becomes popular among violent people who want to appear tough and those who want to fight dogs, and then these sick people all get that breed of dog and abuse them. Then this breed of dog starts attacking and biting people because of the abuse, thereby making the breed look dangerous. It's not the breed. Violent idiotic morons will always have these "tough" dog breed fads. They will choose any medium/large breed dog that looks muscular; it's just the Pit Bull right now.

Oh and I have a personal story about a Pit Bull. My idiot neighbor has two of them and he sometimes lets them run around loose. One day one of the dogs broke into my house through a screen door after scaling my fence. He was trying to go after my female black lab when I heard the commotion and ran downstairs. It was kind of scary to see a strange dog in my home, but I grabbed him by his neck and took him home and he didn't fight me. The guy apologized, but he still lets them run free sometimes. One day a kid will get bitten in my neighborhood by one of his dogs. And it will be HIS fault, not the dogs.
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CraftyGal Donating Member (602 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 03:01 AM
Response to Original message
70. Its not just pit bulls....
I firmly believe it is not the breed but the human behind them. We need to do more research into the breed what it is to see if we can handle that dog. TrogL and I have a long haired miniature senior dachshund. He was attacked by a Shiba Inu on Friday. Leo is okay...no injuries although we do have to keep an eye on him as he had back surgery in January.

When I was 12 I was bit by a golden lab cross. I still have the scar on my calf although it is faded.

Here are cases were it wasn't a pit bull who attacked.

CraftyGal
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JoeyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 04:04 AM
Response to Original message
71. Meh.
Large dog attack you? It was a pit bull! Doesn't matter what kind of dog it actually was, any large dog that bites someone is usually automatically upgraded to "pit bull".
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zinnisking Donating Member (294 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 07:17 AM
Response to Original message
73. Every person I know that has owned one has a tough guy facade.
The motorcycle club "The Outlaws" in the county that I live have a lovey dovey one chained outside their clubhouse and two widdle sweeties inside.

The old tattoo shop downtown had a snuggly wuggly one inside the store.

I'm sure the reason people get them is because of their sweety personalities. Sure.

At the very least felons shouldn't be allowed to own or live in the same house as them.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #73
79. that is my experience. the manly man, tryng to prove it thru a dog... nt
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elias7 Donating Member (913 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 07:48 AM
Response to Original message
74. Their instinct is to kill...that is the problem
I understand many defending the breed, and I understand that if well trained, problems don't happen. But most dogs instictively stop the fight once they have proven dominance. Pit bulls have an instinct to kill, which places them in a very dangerous category.
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JonLP24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #74
82. I don't know why this thread is still alive
and why it keeps sucking me in but where is proof they have this special instinct? I posted an article above, on page 4 that says they do the same thing.

And yet, contrary to popular belief, pit bulls rarely fight to the death. Not only is it unnecessary — the dominant animal usually proves itself before fatal wounds are inflicted — it's imprudent. If a dog is game and descended from a reputable bloodline, its offspring will be valuable commodities. The detectives say this often provided a convenient excuse to end fights before their dogs sustained serious injuries.
http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/2010-09-02/news/dog-beat-dog-to-pull-off-the-biggest-pit-bull-fighting-bust-in-u-s-history-investigators-and-their-dogs-went-undercover/4/

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kick-ass-bob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #82
83. Lets expand these stats. 65% of fatal attacks, every 14 days...
Is 27 fatal pit bull attacks per year which means 41 fatal dog attacks per year.

"One body part is severed and lost in pit bull attacks every 5.4 days." Means 67 'body parts' per year. May I ask what a body part is? A finger? So 3 fingers on one person counts as 3?

To put it in perspective, from 1995 to 2004 (10 years) there were 489 US deaths from lightning strikes, or 49 per year - more than deaths from ANY dog attack in a year.

So honestly, you should be more afraid of a thunderstorm than a pit bull.
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KitSileya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
84. Are pit bulls then the assault rifles or semi-automatics of the dog world?
If the statistics are realiable, apparently pit bulls accounted for 65% of all fatal dog attacks in the US in 2008. Even if breed is misidentified in a number of those attacks that is a high number. I cannot believe that pit bulls account for a very large number of the large dogs in the US (alongside German sheperds, rottweilers, labs, and other large animals that are perhaps more popular as pets?) So, if the statistics are correct, either they attack more, or their attacks are more likely to lead to fatalities.

Either way, it's been stated that it's not the dog breed but the owners who do not raise the dogs properly - can it not be compared to gun ownership then? We do not want guns in the wrong hands, and so we should not want these dogs in the wrong hands. What can be done about it? Should ownership of pit bulls be licenced? Or the breed banned? A proper study of the statistics of dog attack should be conducted, and based on that, should it show that pit bulls are in fact more deadly, I feel a debate based on facts is necessary.

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