The cushiest prison in the world...

Seriously this hurts my brain... Convicted murderer pictured below at his cottage...



Can a prison possibly justify treating its inmates with saunas, sunbeds and deckchairs if that prison has the lowest reoffending rate in Europe? Live reports from Norway on the penal system that runs contrary to all our instincts - but achieves everything we could wish for

For many of us in Britain the idea of allowing a convicted murderer the freedom to work and mix openly with non-criminals is anathema. It offends our deeply ingrained ideas about prisons as a place of punishment and as a deterrent to possible offenders.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1384308/Norways-controversial-cushy-prison-experiment--catch-UK.html#ixzz1LolWEqX8

And I am very much opposed to prison violence and rape, which it seems to have become acceptable to minimize with "don't drop the soap" type of jokes.

But this place takes it too far.

feels like the prisoners are getting a cushy deal, or something that they're not getting. Also, a homogeneous population is less likely to feel like someone is getting the better of them, I'd bet.

Sure, some element should be punishment, the lack of freedom, making license plates, etc. But you create bitter, harder people if you throw them in damp, rat infested cells you're going to create bitter, bitter people.

. . . it is already extracting an enormous punishment. There is no need to impose brutal, inhumane conditions on top of that.

remember how dukakis got raked over the coals for "midnight basketball", a program that cost massachusetts close to nothing but was widely credited with helping reduce crime by giving teens something to do at night instead of raising cain?

republicans and the media laughed at this "waste" and it hurt dukakis's run for president (and i think massachusetts eventually had to can the program due to the political pressure.

our military policy, our drug policy, our prison policy, and a whole lot more are so steeped in the idea that the government should do unto people as the DESERVE, rather than simply solving problems by the more effective means.

want to lower crime? NO, that's not the goal, the goal is to PUNISH criminals.
want peace? NO, that's not the goal, the goal is to crush other countries who stand in our way.
want to eliminate a host of problems that go along with illegal drugs? NO, that's not the goal, the goal is to condemn anything having to do with that evil stuff.

america would never dream of even trying the norwegian methods. more importantly, even if we did, in a small test prison, and it worked brilliantly, it would never become a national policy. why? because reducing crime is not the goal.

:hi:
That was what my Dad used to say about Swedish prisons.

It's close enough, anyway. Close enough, but different.

:hi:

This seems cushier than any Swedish prison I've ever heard about. Looks like a resort.

healing seems better for everyone - society included.

Interesting quote from the director of the place: "Don't get me wrong. There will always be a need for conventional high-security prisons for people who are simply too damaged. But those people are few and far between."

Seeing people who commit crime as damaged vs evil seems an enlightened point of view.

I can imagine some sort of evaluation process to determine who might benefit from this but the opposite side of the spectrum could be taking those "damaged ones" and just taking them out of the equation entirely...

and what is striking about most of them is the complete inability to control themselves or think more than ten minutes ahead. That kind of prisoner would immediately try to escape, steal, or cheat the system in some way. I also don't think it would work in a gang environment or with the societies created by prisoners in the US.

Having said that, some prisoners in the US may be just as responsible as the inmates in Norway. I have a tenant who was in for manslaughter who is employed, responsible, and calm -- he would have been an ideal candidate.

Ultimately it comes down to human behavior. The important thing is to cut down recidivism, and for that prisoners have to change their habits voluntarily. If the threat of being sent to a normal prison is sufficient, a lot of inmates might control themselves enough to obey the rules and form good enough habits to continue after release.

... as seen from a 5 year old. There is just no way this would work in America

to something like this. The point is to voluntarily reintegrate an offender to society. In addition to the psychological profile of a lot of inmates, prisoners are tremendously influenced by their peers NOT to start being law-abiding.

But not everyone who is incarcerated is an unrepentant gangbanger. There some selected prisoners it may work with. Sounds like that is what Norway is doing.

No matter how badly the prisoners behaved in the state prison system, they all behave themselves in this small, rural county prison. Prisoners who would, by gang affiliation, be enemies in the state prisons, befriend one another.

For the most part, they *hate* having to live the way they do. But they feel they have no choice. You *have* to be meaner than the next guy, or be the next guy's victim in the state warehouses. In the relaxed rural county prison environment, they are thrilled to shed that need and try to enjoy themselves as much as possible.

Never seen any studies on recidivism for the prison. Of course, the first problem they have back out on the street is that nobody will hire an ex-con. When the choice is starvation versus criminal activity, the latter will generally prevail.

and the number of applicants with a criminal record is staggering, to the point where if there are no court records my first thought is that I misspelled the name.

It's always on a case-by-case basis. Some minor infractions are generally OK, but I had a refuse a guy with four assault charges (three with a deadly weapon), car theft, hard drugs, and a bunch of smaller stuff. I unknowingly rented to his girfriend, however, and he moved into her room, broke another tenant's car window, kicked two doors in, stole hundreds of dollars worth of stuff, threatened to kill people, and made two tenants leave for their own preservation before I could get rid of him. I don't know where he lives now, but he created his own problem.

I am not too surprised by the rural prison experiment -- so much of crime and violence is caused by the environment. These big prisons with large opposing gangs aren't solving anything.

Our prison system is obviously not reducing crime.

Ever see the movie "The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo"? Americans were undoubtedly struck by the "prison cell" of hero Mikael Blomkvist.

Money quote: "Normally all you leave prison with is two bin bags of clothes. It's like your life has been on pause. You just go on with all the bad habits you had before you went in."

:sarcasm:

Prison doesn't need to be harsh, just worse than living outside.

Maybe that's why US jails have to suck so much.

from here it looks like that guy has it better than I do



(but I would prefer to commit a non-violent crime)

Not the entire system, of course--as the head of that prison says, you will always have a need for closed prisons as well. But rehabilitation can work, and obviously our recidivism rates could be lower than they are now.

Prison is career training. Many people who spend time in jail come out no more prepared for society but much more prepared for a return to criminal behavior.

Not sure how I feel about murderers and other violent offenders being there though. Another thing is that the potential of being sent back to a traditional prison will probably always be needed in order to keep some of the inmates inline.