Fox Contributor: ‘Cult of victimology’ around rape stifles debate

Source: Raw Story
By Megan Carpentier

Kirsten Powers, a Fox News and Daily Beast contributor and former Clinton Administration official, became the latest women to jump on the anti-"Slutwalk" bandwagon following pop singer Rebecca St. James' assertion that women are "asking for sex if they’re dressed immodestly” and should refrain from doing so if they don't wish to be raped.

Powers, who also accused feminists of ignoring the needs of trafficked women by advocating against sexual violence with their "Slutwalk" protests, joined via Twitter this morning. Her beef: the use of the word "slut" -- which, actually, stemmed from the police officer who started the outcry.

In January, Toronto Police Service constable Michael Sanguinetti gave a speech to York University law students explained what he thought was one of the best ways to prevent rape: "You know, I think we're beating around the bush here. I've been told I'm not supposed to say this - however, women should avoid dressing like sluts in order not to be victimised."

More at: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/05/10/fox-contributor-cult-of-victimology-around-rape-stifles-debate/

Sick. :puke:

Do none of them understand that rape is a form of assault that has NOTHING TO DO WITH SEX?

Morons. Morons. Morons.

But you know, it's true. When I see a woman dressed like a slut, I can't help myself. I have no choice but to attack. I have no impulse control at all. And just in case you think I'm serious -- :sarcasm:

Too much to ask, I guess.

Women need to quit drowning their children in bathtubs, too. :eyes:

that "women shouldn't dress provocatively..."

Relax. Yes, we know that only a small percentage of men are rapists. Try not to be over-sensitive.

They've always been with us and they've always been equally disgusting.

It's the opposite of hate.

Yes, there are some men who do over-power and abuse women, but to tell women that - no matter what, there's absolutely nothing they can do about that - is not realistic.

Rape is men's problem. We're just their victims.

If men ever really wanted to stop it, to keep women from living in fear and mistrust, then they'd abandon that idiotic paradigm of themselves as mighty predators and women as their prey.

You're taking abuse in this thread because you deserve it.

WHAT THE F*CK? OK--officially speechless.

...in their bathing suits on a nice warm May day.
Unfortunately, I didn't have time to rape them today.
I mean, they WERE asking for it, right?

:spank:

when you wear as much makeup as say Rebecca St. James or Kirsten Powers you don't get to comment about other women looking like "sluts."

Dumber than a sack of hammers such people are. :eyes:

Oops. Edit to say, I meant the people in the article, not you the OP

:grr:

by trying to say ALL women who are raped had absolutely ZERO to do with the conditions that resulted in that crime. Many . . . Most? ARE victims, i.e. their behaviors constituted a distinct minority of the factors that resulted in the crime, but Justice for these authentic victims is impeded, obfuscated, even lost, if the processes employed do not recognize that some women do bear, if not an authentic majority of the responsibility for the factors that resulted in the crime, at least a significant minority, something relatively close to, or even in some cases exceeding, 50:50, in terms of the causes of what happened.

It is not good for Justice. It is not good for men and it most certainly is not good for women to inculcate in women ULTIMATE Victimhood, a.k.a. Learned Helplessness, by telling women that under any and all such circumstances there is/was absolutely nothing that any/all of them can/could do to prevent or avoid rape by any/all evil men. To do so dis-empowers/limits women, qualifies/reduces the value of autonomous behavioral decision making, and enslaves men to the lowest feminine common denominator.

On edit: Actually, "To do so dis-empowers/limits women, qualifies/reduces the value of autonomous behavioral decision making, and enslaves both sexes to the lowest common denominator in the other sex."

I really do not understand your statement. do you agree that (some) women who wear certain clothing are participating in an invitation to rape? if so, which ones?

ie, there are wiser decisions people could have made.

because, say, if she has to walk across a campus she might get raped or mugged? a decision to go to the library to study is fraught with personal responsibility for women b/c they are traditional targets of criminals?

should children stay inside since playing outside might result in kidnapping?

I guess I just wonder where the dividing line is between personal responsibility and blaming the victim who expects to be able to live a life.

If two women are at a function and one is dressed modestly and the other is dressed immodestly but both get raped as a consequence of being at that function - are both equally responsible for their rapes?

I'm not sure what post you meant to reply to but it certainly wasn't mine.

That applies both to your point and to my point and without the specific and appropriate details of actual given cases, this turns into my hypothetical example compared to your hypothetical example of different kinds of artificially isolated clothing factors relative to whether rape occurred or not.

One example would show that, all other factors being identical, rape happens no matter what clothing a woman is or isn't wearing, i.e. clothing is not a factor and woman is inevitable victim.
The other example would have to show that, all other factors being identical, rape occurs with slutty clothing and doesn't occur with nice clothing.

Each of the examples (hypothetical or otherwise) would have their respective probabilities of being valid or not, but they'd both just be one example out of a much larger phenomenological set, most of which includes most likely many more factors than just clothing.

that indicates a woman's clothing is responsible for rape?

because - to make such a statement without any data is just an opinion. nothing more. And I was asking your opinion b/c you didn't seem to have any data to back it up.

implications of many possible varieties of causes of rape, not exclusively, and, I'll repeat, rather ARTIFICIALLY I'd bet, solely clothing.

artificial hypotheses.

got it.

beyond a few.

"under any and all such circumstances there is/was absolutely nothing that any/all of them can/could do to prevent or avoid rape by any/all evil men."

Often there is nothing they could do to prevent of avoid being raped. There are things people can do to avoid some rapeists but of course it is up to the rapist to decide to rape. Same as any other violent crime. There are things you can to to av.oid some assholes, and of course you should be cautious and aware but you can not stop all evil people

just because women are weaker physically they are ALWAYS the victim, so what they do does not matter since it's ALL the man's responsibility not to rape. It IS the man's responsibility not to rape, but that's not ALL of the responsibility, it's also the woman's responsibility not to confuse or try to use men and then abdicate ANY responsibility when men either take that wrong or accidentally-on-purpose rape them.

There is such a thing as guilt/the-most-responsibility, but it can't be authentically identified if all of the various responsibilities are not ALSO identified in nearly as possible appropriate proportions one to the other.

So if the shop owner leaves products on the shelf, that is an invitation for theft? The onus is always on the criminal, not the victim.

take it. That's observable.

Some of the factors in rape are less observable, some people can LIHOP/lie and say "She made me do it" when they are in fact taking advantage of a situation that gives cover, a plausible "reason", for their behavior, so they blame her when in fact they made a conscious decision to rape.

I was trying to refer to the fact that some people are in over their head, out of control, being used and others are choosing to do the crime and trying to make it look like an accident on their own part, someone else's fault.

It is still their fault. Their responsibility. "she made me do it" is NO excuse for rape. Being "in over your head" or "out of control" and raping someone, it is still the rapists fault. "Oh, I didn't mean to rape her, I was just so horny" is not an excuse.

" it's also the woman's responsibility not to confuse or try to use men and then abdicate ANY responsibility when men either take that wrong or accidentally-on-purpose rape them."

It is the woman's responsibility not to confuse a man? WHAT? "she confused me" is not an excuse. And no, it is not the woman's responsibility to not confuse the man. Poor little men, they have no responsibility since it is the woman's responsibility to not confuse them.

How could a man be "used" to rape a woman?

Another fail at trying to explain.

Congratulations - this one really takes the cake. :puke:

...I still find any parallel between that fact and what these Fox Newsies are saying to be laughable and not in anyone's interest. People are ENTITLED to engage in some "risky" behaviors without having something bad happen to them. Yes, sometimes if people are doing something very risky, they may bear some responsibility for it. If you're walking through a bad neighborhood covered in gold and jewels, well, that's a problem. But just because something bad CAN happen to you by engaging in a somewhat risky behavior doesn't mean that you should live in terror of that risk, or have it shape you into rejecting entire aspects of life, particularly given the relatively low odds involved.

not prohibit nor necessarily punish risky behaviors. I'm just trying to make the point here that this isn't "three strikes and you're out" sentencing guidelines here and additionally whether the community, served by the laws, ever recognizes anyone's culpability in risky behaviors that they do indeed, in most cases, have a "right" to, something called truth is served and there is at least a remote possibility that the recognition of truth will elicit forms of adaptation in both the guilty and the "innocent" that could not only help both of them, but, then, by extension also help the community at large, whether the community knows, or any record is ever made of it or not.

:wtf:

Um, wow. No.

Rape is not about sex. It is about power and control. If a rapist just wanted to have sex, they would hire a prostitute.

it rape. What do you think that fact means to the men involved?

Your assertion was that some women who were raped bear some responsibility for being raped.

"if she's okay about it she calls it "sex", if she's not okay about it she calls it rape". How can those be "same exact events" since it isn't "same exact events" since in 1 case she's consenting and in the other she isn't?

wow.

and you are now on ignore

:shrug:

Did I miss something?

wow

i agree/acknowlege/recognize what you are saying, lol. but we get in trouble if there is an attempt to discuss this and i have just been in the pitbull thread which i have vowed to never never do.

i couldnt agree more. and this is personal experience talking

on edit... to clarification. the action of rape is always on the man and his choice. always. the actual rape is all on him.

a 5 year old girl was dressed 'provocatively'. Fuck rapists. Its their choice to rape. I don't care if he's standing in a damned nudist camp. Its his fucking choice. Not the woman.

That's like saying a murder victim caused somebody to pull the trigger.

Yes, the conditions have to be right. However, this has nothing to do with being "helpless," and everything with placing the blame where it should be - 100% on the perpetrator.

He is the one that did the rape. I cannot accept any argument that reduces men to imbeciles who screw everything in sight like some kind of primate, and women should protect themselves against those evil, stupid imbeciles who are not in charge of their own actions. This is the same justification behind the stupidity of the burqa and face-veil in oppressive Islamic societies. It's the disgusting idea that men should be given a free pass because it's just men being men, and the responsibility is upon the woman to not get attacked and raped. Ridiculous.

The fact is, I think victims are entitled to a little "victim mentality." I think many people are so quick to blame the rape victim because they don't want to believe it can happen to them. They want to distance themselves from such a harsh reality.

Are they some how the chaotic arbitrators of the limits of feminine fashion?

When do we have to start to wear the veils and face coverings?

Fuck off.

:hi: :sarcasm: :hi:

Of putting skirts on piano legs, so men wouldn't be driven mad with lust at the sight of them.

I mean, what was that whore thinking, cleaning her living room in the middle of the day, just ENTICING her rapist like that? That can of Pledge was an INVITATION to be attacked!


:grr: You know, it's a good thing that I only see people like this on TV, because I'd seriously knock someones teeth out if they ever spewed this kind of garbage to my face.

Whether rape should be a crime?

WTF "debate" is to be had here?

and want people to side with their twisted pov

important to the system/process itself.

... you are just asking to be taken out of the gene pool.

And if you show off your wealth ostentatiously, you are just asking to be beaten and robbed.

And if ... well you get the message. Talk about cult of victimhood.

we could probably use a little less of, another reason to understand better the whole picture in terms of what the fuck is going on with rape.

.. doesn't involve how someone is dressed, that's fine.

:think:

explain THAT fuks news - are they too provocative too.

Really?