Tepco reveals nuclear meltdown

http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2011/s3215380.htm

Mark Willacy reported this story on Thursday, May 12, 2011 18:10:00

MARK COLVIN: The company that owns the Fukushima nuclear plant, Tepco, has finally admitted what many have long suspected, that one of their reactors underwent a full meltdown after the tsunami that hit Japan's east Coast.

They say the fuel rods in the number one reactor at the Fukushima Daiichi plant are exposed.

We begin with our Tokyo correspondent Mark Willacy.

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3 ... 2 ...1 ... until someone posts it is all fixed now. Don't worry be happy. Drink the radiated milk. Its good for you.

This is madness

for the people of Japan, and how it will affect the rest of the world and the environment. So is northern Japan now a permanent dead-zone? I grew up fearing this but I don't recall hearing what the overall long term affects would be, or how far reaching. Can someone fill us in?

...it's very, very bad. And it will be getting worse. It is my personal belief that it will be getting worse for a long time (6+ months at least) and that, cumulatively will make the situation very bad for a chunk of the area around Fukushima.

And that's before animals, groundwater, etc. become vectors for movement of radioactive material.

PB

not really talking about it. It's a done deal and now we just have to cope. I'm reading other posts and I see that this will devastate Japan's economy (ability to put food on the table, etc.) Sickening. As for the rest of us, this is unchartered territory (bigger than Chernobyl).

I have to think that or go crazy, poor animals.

Are we seeing the rise of the same double standard that caused the IUPAC to give all the transuranic elements European names chosen by their Lawrence Livermore "discoverers", even though half of them were discovered in Russia or elsewhere?

The last two days felt like we were being prepped.

They can't see it, taste it or feel it, so it doesn't matter. Go shopping.

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:)

so stuff it with your snide remarks.

The EPA is no longer monitoring the west coast for fallout. The media reports nothing. The people in my community act like nothing is wrong. I get piled on by pro-nuke DUers for daring to post fukushima stories that mostly sink like a lead weight.

I stand by my comment. No one cares.

"to bad you dont know anyone with "inside info" ect ect... :tinfoilhat:

head back in the sand now.

That presser will sure be something.

It's why I sleep with at least one eye open.

For every action there's a reaction. For every do, there's a don't.

(Thank you, Brother Duane Allman and Mr. Arthur Conley.)

As in "peace of the grave."



For those interested in continuing the struggle: Health effects of plutonium .

Oh well, the glass's half-full: The rich say they'll always be with us.

thanks to the dedication of anti-nukers in Japan who fought tooth and nail to prevent MOX being used. Unfortunately they didn't win the battle however their efforts delayed the implementation of MOX. Given MOX started only in August of 2011, the article stated there are no MOX rods in the spent pools.

from spent uranium, and is sometimes involved in the disposal of weapons-grade plutonium.



Read more: http://news.cnet.com/8301-11386_3-20042852-76.html#ixzz1MCS1OEsI

The explosion seemed vectored upward, as if shot from a rifle barrel, by the shape of the 50X50X50 spent fuel pool, Gunderson said. The "detonation" hurled the roof of the building a quarter mile into the air. The wind spread the airborne particles from the debris cloud.

http://enenews.com/gundersen-confirms-massive-explosion-unit-3-spent-fuel-pool-hydrogen-video

Thanks for the heads-up on the Japanese protesters delaying the implementation of MOX. Believe me, I hope and pray you are correct.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x800253



Anyone who feels that grassroots efforts are futile should read this. Who would have thought when they lost the court battle that their efforts would not be be in vain.

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My grandsons have been drinking powdered milk for two months.

Go fuck yourself!

Don

This isn't the first nuclear accident, and unfortunately, it won't be the last.

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currently available (and the tech. that has been buried by other power interests) we can safely and cheaply (after we begin mass production) supply the world with safe, cheap power.

As with all technology, vast improvements will be discovered (or uncovered) as we progress in the process. The oil, coal, gas, nuclear, etc... pay huge amounts of money to suppress this technology and they spread lies, etc... All to keep their profits rolling in. I am sure that if we committed to green tech., the other energy companies would invest trillions to "corner the market."
IF, we would actually set some regulations (tariffs), America could create millions of jobs. Well paying, Union (if the workers choose that) jobs that could really help the main street economy.

Oh well...pipe dreams in todays "Amerika."

Vann Jones had the right attitude, of course that made him unacceptable.....

and spoken about by concerned human beings. Your attempt to shift negativity to those criticizing nuke energy is probably one of the most pathetic attempts to disrupt a thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4848633

See how its done? Not "Drink the radiated milk. Its good for you." crap. Or "Go fuck yourself". Or "They can't see it, taste it or feel it, so it doesn't matter. Go shopping." Please grow up. Let`s have an adult conversation. And again, for the nine millionth time, if my comments don't apply to you, don`t be offended. (I shouldn`t have to even type that.) But if my comments apply to you, be offended.

what we already suspected to be true.

I was tired of the lies and the happy talk, and tired of having my intelligence insulted by people with limited knowledge who feigned expertise in an attempt to downplay the seriousness of this accident. It is good to have the truth out there so that people can make informed decisions. This is a positive step.

And their enablers hereabouts, dissing and smearing any voice that dares point out their coverups and obvious lies. And the audacity to suggest we who care and have been listening and monitoring, to try to call out those that are now proven to have been righ all along.

Unfuckingbelievable.



Nuclear meltdown at Fukushima plant

One of the reactors at the crippled Fukushima Daiichi power plant did suffer a nuclear meltdown, Japanese officials admitted for the first time today, describing a pool of molten fuel at the bottom of the reactor's containment vessel.

By Julian Ryall in Tokyo 2:01PM BST 12 May 2011


"Engineers from the Tokyo Electric Power company (Tepco) entered the No.1 reactor at the end of last week for the first time and saw the top five feet or so of the core's 13ft-long fuel rods had been exposed to the air and melted down.

Previously, Tepco believed that the core of the reactor was submerged in enough water to keep it stable and that only 55 per cent of the core had been damaged.

Now the company is worried that the molten pool of radioactive fuel may have burned a hole through the bottom of the containment vessel, causing water to leak. "We will have to revise our plans," said Junichi Matsumoto, a spokesman for Tepco. "We cannot deny the possibility that a hole in the pressure vessel caused water to leak".

Tepco has not clarified what other barriers there are to stop radioactive fuel leaking if the steel containment vessel has been breached. Greenpeace said the situation could escalate rapidly if "the lava melts through the vessel".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/8509502/Nuclear-meltdown-at-Fukushima-plant.html



FUCKING WEASELS

By North Asia correspondent Mark Willacy and wires

Updated 5 hours 36 minutes ago

The operator of Japan's crippled Fukushima nuclear plant says rods inside one of the reactors have most likely melted after being fully exposed.

The Tokyo Electric Power Company (TEPCO) has reported a leak from the reactor vessel and another spill of contaminated water into the ocean. The company says the water level inside reactor No. 1 was much lower than it thought, exposing about 1.5 metres of the fuel rods.

It says the rods have likely melted and workers are still trying to cool them in water at the bottom of the pressure vessel.

The company believes that about half the reactor core in reactor No. 1 has been damaged and has been pumping in up to eight tonnes of water an hour into the pressure vessel to try to keep the rods cool...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/05/12/3215377.htm



Nadin, you were right



FUCKING WEASELS

Everything is under control! That is why you're hearing so little about it anymore. Nothing to worry about, folks - we now return to the soap opera you call your lives.

and the other voices in the wilderness these many weeks were right all along.

The fucking shills won't quit.

What, they want us all dead?

Is that what they want?

Why would they seek to obscure the truth?


FUCKING WEASELS

Give us the 6 billion for windmills.

NIPSCO wanted to build one near the Indiana Dunes. If it would have turned to shit the fallout would have been blown right over Chicago.

The lawsuits became cost prohibitive and they canceled the project.

That is the way it is done.

Don

Things that should be done in Japan prior to restarting a nuclear plant -- 1) review tsunami protection... if vulnerable, upgrade prior to restart 2) walk down all equipment and inspect for earthquake damage 3) retest all piping snubbers for earthquake damage 4) review emergency response procedures for multiple Unit failures, review seismic "hardness" of emergency facilities and equipment, review alternative evacuation plans and procedures if plant conditions become harsh, review multiple, redundant communication links to government, training lessons learned, etc etc 5) startup testing at least as extensive as coming out of an outage. To do anything less, and I doubt if this list is complete, is irresponsible. In the US, I am pretty sure that the NRC would have issued a Generic Letter stating what they expected utilities to do prior to restarting. I am getting the impression that the Japanese nuclear regulators may have the diligence that the US Dept of Interior oil rig inspectors had prior to Horizon. Again, I would ask... is nuclear power safe in the hands of just any country that can afford to build a plant?

Incredible! I guess Japan has no regulation of their nuclear power plants, unlike the US. Their PM asks a company to shut down plants for safety concerns??? ... And they hesitate! In the US, nuclear plants are licensed and can only operate with government permission. After every SCRAM, they have to show that they know the reason and that they have taken action to prevent reoccurrence and that it is safe to restart. In the US, the NRC and the insurance company can shut down a plant... And a very bad INPO finding would probably have the NRC quickly act to shut a plant down. You would think that just the legal liability if something should happen after being warned of an unsafe condition would make a shutdown mandatory. No plant in Japan that is susceptible to tsunami's and lacks sufficient protection should be allowed to operate... And besides that, their spent nuclear fuel pools need immediate upgrades to safety plans, as well as a review of the flooding protection for emergency generators. I can't believe that their nuclear industry professionals aren't out front leading on new safety measures... Not waiting to be forced to take action or to be paid by the government to shutdown. If I was an engineer at a nuclear plant on the east coast, a few hundred miles from the worst nuclear disaster in history, in an active earthquake region, without a tsunami wall that is sufficiently high... Well, I would quit rather than participate in a restart of the plant. What are they thinking?

A fubar... Now that is an understatement. What they are saying is that the water level is much lower than expected... normally, if the fuel was where it is supposed to be, the fuel would be at thousands of degrees and the sides of the RX vessel would be very very hot (since the water level implies that a normal core would be uncovered). They conclude that the fuel must be melted and laying in the bottom of the vessel. Another possibility is that their new instrument calibration is incorrect. The instrument calibrations are good for certain ranges of pressure, temperature, and water level range. These conditions are not normal. My first reaction is to question the calibration. Another possibility is that the fuel is no longer in the vessel. How much danger is there in a 100% melted core vs let's say a 50% melted core? Good question! I would think that if they have lots of boron injected into the vessel... if they haven't lost the reactor pressure vessel integrity already (they need to understand where the core is -- is it in the vessel or in the containment)... If temperatures are relatively low and declining, then the risk is unchanged. I am not sure why there is so much interest in the precise % of core melt. FYI, it is generally accepted that any level exceeding 2/3 core height offers adequate cooling to prevent a meltdown. If the core was ever completely uncovered for any significant length of time, it is a blob now. If the current level reading is correct, then that core is 100% melted. The scariest thing to me would be if the core is no longer in the vessel, explaining its cool temps. The best outcome is that they messed up the instrument cal and the water level is in fact higher than the reported one.

The presence of huge quantities of extremely radioactive water outside the containment in the RB and TB basements implies 1) major fuel damage, 2) breech of reactor vessel, and 3) breech of primary containment vessel. Apparently, it is coming from U1. I don't know how they know the size of the vessel breech. They couldn't have seen it... there has been no access to the drywell, which would have lethal dose rates. They could be estimating it based on leakrate from vessel, if they think they know that and the breech location. They should know from the injection flow rates which Unit is leaking so much water. Question: Wouldn't we know if the core had melted through the vessel because of the insanely high dose rates? The dose rates are high... I think that they should know from thermal scans from satellites whether or not there is an uncovered core. The big "give away" would be temperatures, not so much radiation levels. There are a lot of sources of radiation onsite. That is why the reports have so much optimism in them that the core is being cooled. This is a serious problem (major fubar), because they are generating really nasty water at an alarming rate... enough to seriously contaminate the Pacific ocean for goodness sakes. They can't just keep doing that indefinitely. I assume that the vessel breech is too large to plug... And access would be a real big challenge. They need to find the containment breech and try to stop it... Then they could flood the containment and slow the injection rate and slow down the rate of creating this highly radioactive water. Flooding both the reactor and containment would also provide added confidence that the core is covered. I don't see any other way to stop generating so much contaminated water.

Can it get worse? When (many nuclear professionals) asked this question, you will usually not get an unequivocal statement that we have seen the worst of the situation. The reason is simply that we have very little experience with events like those in Japan. We have never had reactors where containments are so badly damaged. We have never had spent fuel pools and spent fuel so badly damaged. We have never had multiple reactors so badly damaged. We have never had a nuclear accident where the emergency went on this long. We have never had a commercial reactor where the emergency systems (emergency generators, ECCS systems, service water) were all so damaged by the tsunami and hydrogen explosions. While it is true that a prompt critical didn't explode the reactor like in Chernobyl, the Japan accident has many features that are the worst case scenario already. So, can it get worse? So, can the news get worse? 1) The situation could already be worse than we know... Instrumentation at 3 of the Units is extremely limited and there is very limited access to the plants... For example, where exactly is the U1 core? 2) nuclear fuel in an unanalyzed configuration can go critical and generate a lot of heat and cause explosions -- the ultimate dirty bomb (not an atomic bomb, a conventional bomb spreading nuclear contamination)... It could also cause further damage to reactor vessels and containments 3) water runoff from the plant can continue and worsen area drinking water 4) the news of health effects amongst the heroes on the ground over there could surface 5) you don't hear much about those sent fuel pools, but we don't know how to address a breech of a pool... And we don't know the long term impact of filthy water in the pools... and very heavy stuff like roof parts and overhead crane could fall into a pool damaging fuel and the pool liner 6) the earthquakes could cause further damage to already damaged structures. The situation is far from "under control" and until it is, yes, the situation could get worse. They can't even start cleaning up the facility, surrounding area, etc until they stabilize the situation... and they haven't yet done so.

..can someone outline what this means in real terms...I think many were predictiing some sort of Chernobyl blow-up, or a mushroom cloud, but a meltdown with all that implies sounds so much worse..

Plain english is preferred, even though I stayed in a Holiday Inn express last night, I am not a nuclear engineer...

Thanks!

at least here on the Pacific Rim and most likely elsewhere, from the radiation readings taken before SOS Clinton met with the Japanese to control the news and shut down any radiation monitoring.

Because you can't see it, hear it, taste it, smell it, etc., it is easy to obscure the facts, as people do not believe what they cannot see, hear, taste, smell, etc. By the time radiation has done its damage it's too late, then you begin to feel it.

We cannot rely on our governments to tell us the truth or protect us, as their greater interests in economies trumps the public's right to know. Aren't you glad we live in democracies?

What part of these facts need explaining?




Vessels cracked: check
Cold Shutdown impossible: check
Release of radiation continues unabated into ground, into ocean, into air: Check
Water poured into reactors is leaking out, no solution: Check
These reactors cannot be entombed ala Chernobyl: Check
We will continue to experience radiation leaks that will migrate radiation to the US West Coast: Check



Can you hear me now?


Local extreme enviroweenie biased claptrap spewing radical here, signing off for now. (that is what DUer called me on March 11)


rdb

and especially the children. What a fucking nightmare of astronomical proportions! Older adults will survive this, but our children will get cancers. Their children will be born deformed and ill and there's not a G-d Damn Fucking thing we can do about it!

I am so fucking pissed off right now. There are nuke supporters on this forum who are STILL supporting this disastrous industry! How fucking insane is THAT???? Geezus fucking Krist. What's it going to take to finally convince them that this hit is DEADLY DANGEROUS??(*&^%$#@

I don't want my kids to get cancer...

the Japanese food supply will be horribly contaminated not to mention the other environmental factors that they are dealing with.

It just makes you think - what are they going to own up to next? Since they aren't forthright with information, what is next?

Chernobyl -- fuel dispersed after meltdown into other parts of building with more or less successful prevention of groundwater penetration, and meltdown eliminated by tons of boron dropped from helicopters.

Fukushima -- fuel sitting there, leaking into the ocean with groundwater being pumped into it and back out to keep it cool. No efforts to bury the reactor in neutron absorbent material.

And DU would be first in line to demand it.

:rofl:

For some reason the video clip won't play inline in any of my browsers,
but if I paste this url into my media player it works: http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/fixed/asx/13_03_512k.asx

vessel. Will it burn through? If it does burn through will it burn through the concrete containment? These are the important questions.

Hence the radioactive water leaking into the ocean (imho)

A possible reason for the contaminated water could be the overflow of the water they are dumping into the reactor trying to keep it cool. The excess water has to go some where.

the radiation leak (going into the ocean) was coming from a few weeks ago. It seems if it were overflowing, wouldn't it have been obvious where it was coming from?
:shrug:

Radiation is energy like an x-ray. Contamination is material that is giving off radiation like water containing radioactive material. We know they are dumping water into the plant and it has to go somewhere, eventually some goes to the sea. A radiation leak would mean part of the cladding steel, lead and or concrete, isnt stopping the radiation.
Forgive me but I only know enough to get myself in trouble. But if the molten core burns thru the vessel and concrete containment, it probably wouldnt stop burning until it hits the water table and then explode. If that were eminent, I would hope they would be taking some drastic actions.

The experts must be right. They're experts. I'm just a nonperson. And they've always been right so far.

Right experts?

It is going to reach the point of becoming catastrophic if TEPCO doesn't give up the notion of trying to save the remaining assets, and resigns itself to using the only solution left, the Chernobyl solution.

and active from what I understand. Even encasing everything in concrete is a temporary solution at best - the concrete @ Chernobyl is disintegrating because of the radioactivity and will need to be replaced some time in the future.

At least this is my own interpretation of various articles I've read.

Plan to flood Fukushima reactor could cause new blast, experts warn
Plant operator Tepco reveals meltdown and breach of pressure vessel, with Greenpeace warning against pumping water in....

Greenpeace said problems could escalate rapidly if the fuel melted through the reactor vessel. "As the fuel rods were fully exposed and subsequently melted, it is highly likely that the core's integrity is compromised and that there is larger amount of melted fuel at the bottom of the reactor pressure vessel." John Large, an independent nuclear engineering consultant in London, said Tepco's plan to flood the reactor was riddled with "potential risks"....

The government has decided to use taxpayers' money to help Tepco compensate tens of thousands of people affected by the Fukushima accident. Total damages are expected to run into trillions of yen, equating to tens of billions of pounds.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/13/fukushima-reactor-meltdown-flooding-warning

There's a diagram at this site explaianing..http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/national/T110512006539.htm

Leaking contaminated water..melted fuel may be accumulating..container cracks..etc