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The credit crunch tent city which has returned to haunt America --UK Daily Mail

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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 03:29 PM
Original message
The credit crunch tent city which has returned to haunt America --UK Daily Mail
The credit crunch tent city which has returned to haunt America
by Paul Thompson
Last updated at 12:35 PM on 6th March 2009

A century and a half ago it was at the centre of the Californian gold rush, with hopeful prospectors pitching their tents along the banks of the American River.
Today, tents are once again springing up in the city of Sacramento. But this time it is for people with no hope and no prospects.With America's economy in freefall and its housing market in crisis, California's state capital has become home to a tented city for the dispossessed.


Rich and poor: The tents and other makeshift homes have sprung up in the shadow of Sacramento's skyscrapers

Shanty town: The tent city is already home to dozens of people, many left without jobs because of the credit crunch

(snip)

Ben Cardwell, carries supplies to his tent at a homeless settlement


Tammy Day, a homeless woman, cooks potatoes on a campfire at the site
(snip)

Homeless: Keith and Tammy Day cook dinner

Authorities in Sacramento, where Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger has his office,
admit the sight of families living in such poverty is not pretty.
But faced with their own budget crisis and a £30billion deficit, they have had little choice but to consider making the tent city a permanent fixture.
The city's mayor Kevin Johnson said: 'I can't say tent cities are the answer to the homeless population in Sacramento but I think it's one of the many things that should be considered and looked at.'


Shanty towns sprung up during the Great Depression as people lost their jobs and homes


Migrant Mother: Dorothea Lange's famous photograph from the Great Depression features Florence Owens Thompson, 32, a mother-of-three who had just sold the family's tent to buy food

As America's most powerful state California had the same gross domestic output as Italy and Spain, but it has been among the hardest hit by the recession and housing crisis.Foreclosure rates last year rocketed by 327 per cent, with up to 500 people a day losing their home. Coupled with massive job cuts that have seen one in ten workers laid off, many people who once enjoyed a middle class existence are now forced into third world conditions. Former car salesman Corvin and his wife Tena are among the newest residents of the tent city.



Tent city residents queue up to receive supplies handed out by a local charity
(snip)
The couple, who are in their fifties, lost their home and jobs around the same time. With homeless shelters full in Sacramento, they had little choice but to use what savings they had left to buy a tent. The couple admit they have yet to tell their grown-up children about their hand-to-mouth existence. Tena said: 'I have a 35-year-old son, and he doesn't know. I call him, about once a month and on holidays, to let him know that I'm well and healthy. 'He would love me anyway, but I don't want to worry him.' The shame of Sacramento's tent city was given a much wider airing after it was featured on the Oprah Winfrey show which is watched by more than 40 million people a week. Many of those who have found themselves homeless worked in the building trade. But with no new home builds and as many as 80,000 people losing their job every month, there is little chance of employment. Governor Schwarzenegger last month approved a budget to address the state's deficit, ending a three-month stalemate among lawmakers. As well as increasing taxes, he has imposed drastic cuts in education, healthcare and services that will affect everyone living in the state.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1159677/Pictured-The-credit-crunch-tent-city-returned-haunt-America.html

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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
1. "Why don't they just buy houses like regular people?"
Television quote from a policeman in San Luis Obispo, CA in the 1970, after clearing out a homeless encampment there. Nothing changes.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #1
15. My God, how can someone be THAT ignorant?
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #15
22. That's exactly what I though when I heard it on the evening
news. WTF? And he didn't look like he was joking at all. Unbelievable.
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blueamy66 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #15
48. Well, he was a cop
Edited on Fri May-13-11 08:26 AM by blueamy66
With a pension, a free lawyer, if need be, great medical benefits, disability payments....and, if he/she is suspended for some wrongdoing, he/she gets PAID too!

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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #15
55. Ignorant = 60% of the population. n/t
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chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #55
125. hmm...
I think your percentage is much too low...
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
2. Kicked and recommended.
Thanks for the thread, bobbolink.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Thanks, Uncle Joe. Always good to see you!
Wish it could be with better news. :(

This is so sickening!
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. I feel the same way, bobbie.
In this day and age here in the U.S. we should have already eliminated homelessness and destitution.

Peace to you.:hug:
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #6
40. You are right. Homelessness COULD have been eliminated, and if there were truly
"progressives", it WOuLD have been eliminated.

People get angry because I say we have homelessness because we have allowed it, but that is the truth of the matter.

Just like we have racism because we allowed it, and we have discrimination against gays because we allowed it.

Its the same process.

But it is so much easier to attack the messenger.
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Shireling Donating Member (222 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #40
78. My thoughts as well
I don't know how many times I have said just that.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #78
86. I hope you don't get the attacks for it, too. You notice the unrecs still happening with this one.
It is personal attacks... because I keep telling people this IS the choice we are making. We ARE allowing the homelessness epidemic by ignoring it.

People want to ignore and and not have someone tell them they are wrong to do so.

Hence, the attacks.

Very, very sad.
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tpsbmam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #86
108. Sorry too late to "R" (major computer problems) but wanted to add important info....
I just Googled for updates.

There is a major court case going on right now regarding the "police sweeps" of people and their belongings in the tent cities. It's the continuation of the class action suit filed on behalf of homeless persons in Sacramento against the county and city in 2009. The county settled -- the city didn't. The case against the city is what's going on right now.

"Police sweeps" is certainly now how I'd describe it. It's horrendous dehumanizing abuse. Nothing new, sadly.

The snips of testimonies about the "police sweeps" that have been ongoing since 2005 are heartwrenching and infuriating.



<snip>

One day, after several notices that she and nearly 200 others would have to leave, she watched from a levee as work crews scooped up her tent and other belongings and dumped them into a truck along with the possessions of her fellow campers, she testified.

"My tent and everything around it was smashed and destroyed," including a shopping cart, barbecue grill, birth certificate, medicines, clothes, shoes and an afghan that she had been "working on for six months."

<snip>

Andrew Jackson was camping at a downtown area that homeless people call "Field of Dreams" when police seized his duffel bag containing personal items including photos of his dead parents, he testified.

Jackson, who said he suffered a brain injury as a child that has left him unable to read or write, wiped tears as he talked about losing the pictures.


There's more at the Sacramento Bee.

I'll leave it up to you to post the article -- I think it deserves more attention. This post & googling took me about 45 minutes with my dying computer! At least I was able to read and post a little tonight. I'm shutting down -- sometimes it helps to revive it a little (I'm waiting for the day it won't start up again....I'm screwed at that point.)





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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #108
109. This is really important stuff... thanks so much for taking the time and effort to post this!
If "progressives" don't get busy and be activists and advocates for issues like this, they are going to find themselves in the midst of some real ugly upheaval... and wonder where it all came from.

I can't for the life of me understand why so little compassion and so little action is directed towards homelessness.... I don't get it at all.

THIS is going to be happening all over the country. It is time to get involved!
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
3. k & r
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Thanks. We have to do better than this!
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
4. Recommend
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. Thanks!
:hi:
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
8. The fact that there are only 8 recs on this thread is chilling. nt
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delunapark Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Now 10
n/t
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Throd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
11. This is by no means anything new.
The media are acting as if homeless people near the river is something new. They have always been there. They congregate there because for the most part they can be left alone, yet still be close to the city. The police periodically come out and bust up the camps. The sad part is that they throw away any items left by people who aren't in the camp at that particular time. A new camp springs up not too far away and the whole process repeats itself.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Well, then that makes it just fine and dandy then.
:crazy:
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Throd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Why would you infer that from what I wrote?
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. That is exactly what I inferred as well - "oh well they've always been there - keep moving along".
Disgusting.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #18
30. Yup.... pretty cold. Not that *that* is anything new.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #11
62. One day you will get a clue. Until then...
I would suggest living by the old saying, "better be suspected the fool than opening your mouth and confirming it".
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
14. K&R
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coalition_unwilling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
16. After seeing Schwarze-Nazi named as 'Governor' in the story, I
noticed that its date of publication was March 2009.

Has anything changed in the intervening 2 years? Now that Jerry Brown is Governor, has there been any improvement?
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. Would you consider it an "improvement" that Sacramento
is now eyeing Seattle's "model" and wants to have non-profits "organize" their tent cities? I kid you not. Instead of dealing with the root problem of the homelessness (which is Capitalism), they prefer to make it a permanent situation.

Here is your updated 2011 story: http://blogs.sacbee.com/city-beat/2011/02/are-seattles-tent-cities-a-model-for-sacramento.html
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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
17. It is not as if there are not enough empty houses. A solution could find
some way to use these houses as a basis for a relocation of these people to real homes (maybe made into apartment buildings?). Rent vouchers could go a long way toward this goal. That we allow houses to set empty and deteriorate while people live in tent cities is immoral.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
20. Article is over 2 yrs old. How are things now? eom
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. See my post #19 - Sacramento is looking at Seattle's model
for having non-profits "organize" the tent cities. Rather than deal with the causes, they prefer to keep folks in tents. It's revolting.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #21
128. " Rather than deal with the causes, they prefer to keep folks in tents. It's revolting. "
Exactly right. I have just heard it all... a "progressive" is now saying that for the sake of the environment, it is BETTER for people to live in tents.

:nuke:

You see, poverty and homelessness just isn't a concern to so many who call themselves "Democrats" and "progressives", yet they like to bash the RW for "lack of compassion".

:nuke:
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
23. For people who are asking about "now"
No, this tragedy has not gone away because of Brown.

http://www.capradio.org/articles/2011/04/27/still-no-site-picked-for-permanent-homeless-shelter


Still No Site Picked For Permanent Homeless Shelter

(Sacramento, CA)
Wednesday, April 27, 2011

"The head of Safe Ground says the group has not been able to pick an appropriate location for long-term housing.

"The effort to find a permanent site is not something that can happen as quickly as we would all like."

Steve Watters told City Council members last night that in the meantime, the city needs a temporary spot.

<snip>

Assistant City Manager Cassandra Jennings says city staff will look at expanding current temporary homeless shelters instead. Safe Ground says some kind of temporary site is needed for the next 18-months."


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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #23
32. PERMANENT "shelters" and PERMANENT tent cities. Nobody finds anything WRONG with this?
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Throd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. If you could, what would you do to solve the problem?
Edited on Thu May-12-11 08:34 PM by Throd
Seriously. I have watched your act on this site for years. It consists mostly of tirades against pretty much everyone who remotely disagrees with you, silly emoticons, and breathless exclamations of "I can't believe this is being said on a supposedly liberal website!"

You are obviously very passionate and invested in issues regarding the homeless. What are your solutions, and how would you bring them to fruition?
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Dragonfli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #35
43. "I've watched your act" hint - it isn't an act.. Bobbie is working very hard with little help
She is working on as many solutions as can be worked on while living in a car, including efforts to organize the homeless and poor together so they might have a voice that will not be as easily ignored by people such as yourself.

She has advocated that people HERE take an interest and contact representatives that completely ignore or attack the poor, that is, people like yourself.

You have not followed very closely or you would know she is near completion of a PP presentation with an eye towards people using it to educate those that hear nothing from our politicians or news media, she has advocated solutions such as low income housing increases and a needed mending of the safety net.

She works too fucking hard with too little in my opinion to be criticised by random Reagan "Democrats" that think this is either a joke to be laughed at or something to be ignored because "that's been around for a while, nothing worth getting worked up over".

In short, I gather I can take all of what you are and have done on the subject and I may perhaps compare it to her small toe if I were feeling generous to a do nothing, "I'm fine so it's not important" neo-liberal character that considers her life and the hardships of others to be an act.

I gather you are not poor or else you would know this.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #43
47. +1,000,000!!!
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Shireling Donating Member (222 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #43
79. Thank you so much for your reply.
Edited on Fri May-13-11 02:41 PM by Shireling
I give her a big hug and all the encouragement I can to keep on keeping on. We should all be listening to you Bobbolink.

OUR COUNTRY IS ONLY AS STRONG AS OUR WEAKEST LINK. Letting people fall through the cracks as has happened to her only breaks us as a country.

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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #79
80. Hug gratefully accepted! Thanks so much.
It gets very dispiriting to keep plugging away at a topic that most people not only aren't intersted in, but get very passionately AGAINST it.

I accept every bit of encouragement you can spare!

:hug:
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Shireling Donating Member (222 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #80
85. Bobbolink
I have never understood wanting to hurt people while they are suffering so much. I remember back in the 1970's seeing a man trying to get food from a trash bin. He was so thin and frail and I couldn't believe my eyes. Actually, I think that this was the first time that I witnessed homelessness. In fact, I don't think the term "homelessnes" was around yet.

I wanted to leave some nourishing food for him and was telling other people about what I saw and wanted to do. I couldn't believe the reactions I got, and this was back in the "love and peace" seventies.


:grouphug:
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #85
89. The attitudes are stunning, aren't they? The recent post about the homeless man being compacted in
a dumpster because he slept there.... and it was met with laughter and "jokes". Right here. Just recently.

I don't know what has happened to us as humans, but it is really ugly.

I truly don't want to live on the same planet.

Welcome to DU! I hope to see you much more on these threads! Although... it will probably get you the same treatment... :(
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Shireling Donating Member (222 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #89
91. I've been lurking here for many years
I'm dealing with a chronic illness and most of the time don't post.

I can only hope that with time, as we see more and more people being hurt by greed, both here and throughout the world, that we will eventually realize that kindness and compassion actually does bring us joy.

You are a great teacher.

(I don't know what has happened to people, either. Sometimes I think that if others can find a way to blame you, then they feel secure in thinking that it will never happen to them. Being cruel and macho just shows how scared they really are.)
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #91
95. I, personally, don't think "hope" is going to do it.
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tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #85
114. In 1971 I was an almost 21-year-old woman, married to a professor of
Edited on Fri May-13-11 11:33 PM by tblue37
Spanish. That summer we were in charge of a study-abroad group to Spain. I remember how completely gob-smacked I was when a woman, dressed in rags, face and hands smudged with dirt, and with a baby on her hip, approached me as I sat at an outdoor cafe and held her hand out to ask for a peseta. I had never seen a homeless person, never seen anyone beg. I knew such things happened in America during the Depression, but this was 1971! Sure, it was in another country, but Spain, though still under the boot of Franco, was a tourist destination, so I didn't realize that it would have the trappings of a Third WOorld country. Now, of course, large swaths of the United States have become in many ways Third World coutnires within a country.


My point is that the sort of systemic homelessness that Americans have learned to accept as "normal" was not part of our landscape during a significant part of the 20th century--the part that was shaped by FDR's New Deal and by government regulation of the more rapacious elements of our capitalist system. Only after Reagan was elected did we start to see so many people in our towns and cities who had no resources, no place to live, and no real help from any governmental agency. At one time most people in this country would have been ashamed to imagine our society sinking to that level, but now most people--even liberals--seem to think it is just the way things are and that nothing can ever really bedone about it.
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themadstork Donating Member (797 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #43
113. +1, hell was that ever a POST!
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #35
49. She is very passionate and serious about it. It's hard to present solutions, though, when so many
people don't even recognize that there is a problem. So as Dragonfli has pointed out, she has been hard at work organizing a website and presentation aimed at educating people on what it's like to be homeless, and how people wind up that way.

If you have any interest in participating in the project, let me know. There's tons of work yet to be completed and not nearly enough able and willing people available to do it.
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mntleo2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #35
52. And many of us are willing, just not able to help Bobbie
Edited on Fri May-13-11 09:18 AM by mntleo2
Let me give you a little education about poverty and homelessness, Throd, since you obviously don't have a clue.

1. Poverty is an institution meaing that is is an embedded segment of our society that is kept in place because it benefits the upper classes. This is insitution is based on racism, sexism (including LGBTQ folks), ageism and classim. Our presence benefits upper classes as we are the ones paying the biigest proportion of our taxes (if you paid what a low wage worker pays, you would be screaming like a stuck pig), in my state upwards of 17-18% of their meager incomes while the richest keep their billions and pay only 2% and we have TWO of the richest men in the world living in our state. But hey, tax to death the poor, because the Nordstroms and Weyerhausers will cry like babies, prefering to starve babies instead).

2. As an activist you have been hearing from ME alsmost since the inception of this forum. We were trying to tell the muddle class they were next, but we gor booed off the stage because you were so immersed into your little fluffy liberal baloons, you would not believe it.

3. Instead of recognizing poverty as an institution, people like you prefer to believe poverty is all about the poor making a "choice" to be poor. While the middle class goes to WalMart in droves to get their "cheap" crap, WalMart locks low wage workers in their stores afterhours and forcing them to work for free. Other "cheap" bonuses for the muddle class: Lots of chains like Target, Denny's Merry Maids, and Toys R Us, their workers can't feed their families or pay the rent. But hey the muddle class is doing just fine, and look at all that CHEAP labor they benefit from that makes their lives so much nicer!

4. As predicted by we activists over 15 years ago, they were coming for YOU. Now the muddle class is all a-twitter because (gasp) NOW IT IS HAPPENING TO ME! while you applauded the ruination of the safety net, not believing how the rich had hoodwinked you and were robbing you blind, you continued to blame the poor instead of seeing ~ let's say it again: POVERTY IS AN INSTITUTION, NOT A PERSONAL CHOICE.

There have been solutiuons that work for poverty and homelessness around for decades and they work. But hey the POOR who are made invisible and denigrated by the likes of you as always, are the ones suffering from the upper class' policies and decisions that kiiled the safety net in place killing it with attitudes based on racism, sexism, ageism and classim. And YOU expect THEM to come up with solutions the upper classes made? Give me a break.

Thanks Green, it is really frustrating to deal with the ignorance by so-called "liberals" who do not get it because they are not much different than their Rethug counterparts.

Cat in Seattle
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #52
71. +10000
(although I think some of the people who spew on DU are not liberals or lefties of any type)
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #35
61. Shame on you!
bobbolink is no "act".

You should apologize.

Shame on you.
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toddaa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #35
119. A solution that is quite simple
The quickest way to solve homelessness is to eliminate single family dwellings. Greatest waste of space, resources, and money. Stop building them. And don't stop there. Stop building segregated apartment complexes. Instead, shelter should be communal. Real shelter. Not shanty towns or flop houses or whatever prejorative term you wish to call it. Open complexes where people live together, work together, and share.

That means bobbo doesn't live in her car and I don't live in my house. It means we live together in a real community, where we are neighbors helping each other out. Utopian fantasy? Not really. Humans have lived like this for thousands of years. Many still do. The US, however, has constructed a massively twisted collection of laws that stand in the way of living efficiently.

Humans, who are quite stupid, created this farcical notion called property. It's now gotten to the ridiculous extreme in which thoughts and ideas can now be claimed as property. Property is basically the antithesis of sharing.

Being an IT geek, let's see if I can put this into terms I am comfortable speaking about. Here are the four essential freedoms of software defined by Richard Stallman:

The freedom to run the program, for any purpose (freedom 0).
The freedom to study how the program works, and change it to make it do what you wish (freedom 1). Access to the source code is a precondition for this.
The freedom to redistribute copies so you can help your neighbor (freedom 2).
The freedom to distribute copies of your modified versions to others (freedom 3).

Let's modify these fundamental freedoms slight to solve homelessness.

The freedom to live in a shelter as you choose (freedom 0).
The freedom to study how shelters are made and change them to fit your needs (freedom 1).
The freedom to help your neighbor with their shelter by sharing with them the resources from your shelter (freedom 2).
The freedom to help your neighbor build their shelter (freedom 3).

Okay, so that's a bit of a shit job modifying Stallman's philosophy, but he's a genius and I'm a moron. In any case, all this unfettered freedom leads to the same place free software has lead. People working together to make are miserable existence slightly more tolerable because we value cooperation over competition.

Now, the good news is that the age of cheap energy is coming to an end. Hopefully, it will end before we do, but I'm not too optimistic on that point. In any case, once cheap energy is gone, property once again becomes too impractical for our survival. We'll go back sharing. Then the horrendous blight of homelessness will end and we'll go back to the proper understanding that home means earth and family means each other.

But what the fuck do I know. I'm a silly person. Solving homelessness requires "serious" people with large bank accounts and big fucking tractors, who have skill sets in building walls, fences, and alarm systems.


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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #35
153. If you gave a shit then you'd know and wouldn't be hamfistedly asking.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #153
154. !!!!!
So right on, so concise!

There oughtta be a prize.... :yourock:
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Curmudgeoness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
24. Good lord, they are considering making tent cities permanent
because they can't (or won't) do anything for these people. This is a WTF moment that I cannot fathom.
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. "Won't" being the operative word -
it's not like there aren't thousands of houses sitting empty from all the foreclosures ... looks like a fix to me.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #24
34. Shelters have already become a permanent housing substitute. And, "they" is "us". We, The People
are allowing this.
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Curmudgeoness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. I have begun to believe that "we the people" does not exist.
We are not the ones who are allowing or not allowing anything. We are powerless. It is a lie.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. No, "progressives" are NOT powerless. There is much you and others can do, but .....
? :shrug:
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #24
106. After Katrina when the "donated Trailers" were found to have Toxic Fumes...
Edited on Fri May-13-11 09:49 PM by KoKo
the Govt. said...GIVE THEM TENTS! (I'm being snarky here...but it seems to be what's going on) :shrug:
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Curmudgeoness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #106
138. Those trailers were just as bad as a tent city. Worse, in fact,
when you factor in that they were toxic. For any city to choose to allow tent cities as a permanent fix to bad economic times is a travesty. In a country with so much excess, tent and toxic trailers are just not acceptable. Just makes me sick. I know that every one of us could end up in dire straits through no fault of our own, and the apathy is unconscionable.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #138
147. You are exactly right. However, I am told on this thread to just give in to the apathy.
Just die and get it over with, is the message.

I'm to the point of saying maybe that is all there is.
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Curmudgeoness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #147
149. You keep fighting for what is important to you.
We all should fight for what is important to us. Giving up in not an option. I know you always take a beating when you post, and I do understand your frustration. I don't know what to do for the people living in poverty, it is a staggering problem and there are not answers that are easy. Do know that your posts make me think, and have made me think differently on some issues. Don't stop. You never know who might be reading and listening. I still have no answers, but you help me to know another side of the issues.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #149
152. Well, I will take a different tack on that. We should all be fighting for what is important for
Each Other.

We USED to do that. Whites worked for Civil Rights. Men worked for Equal Rights. Straights worked for Gay Rights.

Now it is everyone for themselves, and poor people can just..... disappear.

I don't know how long it will be before "progressives" realize this is a losing strategy.. this whole Rugged Individualism, You work for you and I will work for me thing.

Losing.
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Adsos Letter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
25. K&R
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Adsos Letter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 07:15 PM
Response to Original message
26. K&R
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
27. Kick...Incredible Post...Photo's making it all REAL...
Edited on Thu May-12-11 07:17 PM by KoKo
Faces of America..Poor and Disenfranchised... Reminds me of those incredible Photos of WPA during Great Depression..

:kick:
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #27
39. The difference is... during the Depression, those photos MOVED people. They got reaction And Action
Not so today. :shrug:
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Shagbark Hickory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
29. Those shanties in one of the b&w pics would cost you half a million $ today in CA.
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
31. ..
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
33. Tent Cities in Indonesia, Japan, Haiti and now to America...
and Katrina Survivors got "Toxic Fumed Trailors" (manufactured in SC) that got them Sick.

Now Alabama, Tennesee and Georgia Folks (American Citizens) live in Tents and the Homeless don't get Tents or the "surpus housing" that our Bankster/Fraudsters who live on our Taxpayer Dole force them into...but "STREET FOLKS" for YOU. Live under the Damned Bridge...Losers! That's what they say to folks they never took care of before but now the numbers are rising. Soon it's "Middle Class Folks" under that bridge who are hurting and are not used to "no food, cable TV, and housing and stuff for their kids."

Homeless from Reagan on know what that's all about. But, the Homeless and Disenfranchised are growing and WHAT IS BEING DONE about this?

What?
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. "WHAT IS BEING DONE about this? ... What?" Koko, there is NOTHING being done. Except
criminalization of those caught in this mess, the making of Raygun, as you accurately stress. Clinton did nothing except make it worse with sending more women and children onto the streets, and Obama is cutting what little is left of low-income housing.

This is why I keep saying that it is up to us. I and a few others give ideas of what people can do, but few are willing to do anything at all.

There is a lot of hostility towards homeless people, which you can see on DU, and a few who try to do things here and there.

Other than that, we are on our own.

What would YOU like to do? What would YOU like to see "progressives" do?
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #36
104. The "Clinton-Bush" Initiative and World Concerts sent tons of money there...
I know...I believe this as far as I could throw a stone.

But...that's why no one cares. They think it's all been take care of. Big Money from Bush/Clinton...Concerts...and "Move Along."

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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #33
83. What is being done? Austerity measures and the rich getting richer from both Ds and Rs.
That's what's being done. The situation is being made worse by both parties and their banking from banking interests, hedge fund managers, etc. George Carlin:

They don't give a fuck about you.
They don't give a fuck about you.
They don't GIVE A FUCK about you.
At all.
At all.
AT ALL.

Let that sink in. If WE don't do something no one will. And that means challenging the "woe-as-me-my-hands-are-tied-sorry-I-have-to-meet-with-a-banker-excuse-me" Democrats.
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TheCanadianLiberal Donating Member (245 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
41. This article is almost as old as your...
car.


"6th March 2009"
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. Thank you for your concern.
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JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #41
50. You'd think someone from a country that provides things like free medical care to their citizens
would have just a little bit of empathy for those living in a country who could care less about the poor.

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Shireling Donating Member (222 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #41
82. I have always admired Canadians
I tell people all the time that they are such kind and helpful people. Your comment disappoints me.

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themadstork Donating Member (797 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #41
115. William Vollmann had a great story on this in Harper's earlier this year.
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 01:53 AM
Response to Original message
44. k/r
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LAGC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 02:29 AM
Response to Original message
45. We should requisition all those thousands of foreclosed houses from the banks.
And give them to homeless people.
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mntleo2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 08:05 AM
Response to Reply #45
46. Actually they are doing that in FL
Edited on Fri May-13-11 08:50 AM by mntleo2
...they actually have a group that re-arranges with the police and city officials that they plan to "squat" in an abandoned home. What the cities are discoverring is that not only does it re-energize a dying neighborhood, houses are maintained, spruced up and yards manicured by the families that move in.

In a way it becomes a relief for everyone ~ except of course the banks whose greed knows no bounds after being bailed out with our trillions and they want more. However it it looks like it pays cities to look the other way because this kind of take-over is helping them.

I think it is wonderful! I can look for the links if you would like.

Our poverty network was looking at doing that here in my state as well (WA). Our problem is that we are not seeing entire neighborhoods going down and so we do not think it would work so well in this area. In almost every neighborhood there are abandoned houses, most often in upper income neighborhoods. But you can bet your sweet bippy that those entited wouldn't allow THAT. Like most eilitsts they would rather have babies and elders shivering in a car, that of course they would never allow to park on their streets, than (gasp) have poor people move in next door.


Cat in Seattle
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #45
65. And greater Sacramento has the sixth-highest foreclosure rate in the country.
Edited on Fri May-13-11 11:16 AM by KamaAina
One in every 166 homes received notice in April alone, per the Sacramento Bee.

Tents are for camping. Houses are for people!
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #65
70. "Tents are for camping. Houses are for people!"
:applause:

From your keyboard to the monitors of TPTB!!
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #70
73. I was just thinking about how popular camping is in the mountains just above Sacramento
Edited on Fri May-13-11 12:13 PM by KamaAina
and how all those tents should be in places like Yosemite.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #73
77. I think the important part is that the tents in Yosemite are there by *choice*, not desperation.
I certainly agree with the sentiment. Poor people should *also* be able to enjoy the beauty of this country, and live in peace. However, even though it is PUBLIC PROPERTY, we know that people are NOT allowed ot stay there for more than 2 weeks, no matter the need.

I would certainly enjoy being there right now! :hi:

Did you see this post?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1091196&mesg_id=1096660

Is there any possiblity in that which might be helpful to the people you serve? I recognize that many would need much more than this, but..... I'm wondering if this benefit of being organized by the people who live there would be a boon to tho you work with. That empowerment.

Its certainly an intriguing idea.
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #77
90. Not sure San Jose is progressive enough to get on board with that
Edited on Fri May-13-11 03:18 PM by KamaAina
but Berkeley or SF might be.
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toddaa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #77
120. Choice is a good word, but I disagree with the notion that "tents" are somehow beneath us
Edited on Sat May-14-11 12:49 AM by toddaa
We need to learn to live with nature and not against it. Shelter should not be something that involves tearing apart the earth and paving everything with parking lots and driveways. Maybe if we could find a practical way to build nice, big roomy tents that didn't involve stripping rainforests and leaching toxicants into the earth, we'd all be much happier. When you think about it, Buckminster Fuller's geodesic domes are nothing more than a really big, sturdy tents, but they didn't work out so well. We need to change our notion of what constitutes home. It means giving up rec rooms with big screen TVs and ugly brick veneer two story mausoleums. Let's build nice big tents with sturdy roofs and plenty of open space which induces sharing and cooperation, rather than than hording and competition. Dignity comes from living with nature and not against it, especially when we do it together.

Homelessness will end when we recognize that planet earth is our home and not something in an abstract filed at county assessors office.


But what the fuck do I know? I'm not a very serious person.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #120
127. So, you are just fine with people living in shanty towns like in the Great Depression, and in tents
now. NO toilets or showers, no way to even COOK or stay warm or cool in the summer.

Of course, you say NOTHING about all the rich people in their McMansions... you just want poor people to grovel in desperation.

THIS is precisely why I no longer give a shit about the whole environmentalist movement. It is without compassion.

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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #120
156. Most folks need plumbing and a place to cook. Tents aren't the best in all climates.
Everyone needs a home, a real home that is secure they can leave their possessions in. Prepare meals in. Take showers in. Take a fucking dump in.

We can have a basic home for everyone but don't wish to because of the desire to engineer lack to artificially set prices. Basic housing for all isn't conducive to gouging.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-11 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #156
157. Thank you. Its also not unreasonable to have a place to invite friends, to be able to enjoy a few
hobbies, etc.

Space to have some books. What a concept.

However, most important is being able to have friends and family in. ISOLATION. KILLS.
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NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 09:06 AM
Response to Original message
51. In Republican eyes, they're homeless by choice
isn't that what they've been saying since Reagan?
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
53. Wonder what became of all those fema trailers?
You know the ones that sat empty in LA... I know a good place they would come in handy....

This sucks!!!
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #53
64. They're kicking people out...
New Orleans Dumps FEMA Trailers—and Maybe the People in Them

http://colorlines.com/archives/2011/01/new_orleans_to_rid_itself_of_remaining_fema_trailers.html

New Orleans Mayor Mitch Landrieu delivered on his promise to shut down the remaining FEMA trailers in the city, though not in the way struggling residents would have hoped. As of Jan. 1, New Orleans residents still living in FEMA trailers parked on their property face fines of up to $500 every day they remain in the government-provided housing units. Residents received notice days before Christmas, the AP reported.

It doesn’t mean the city will help people work out housing alternatives for themselves. According to the AP, city officials said they’d make exceptions for “that little old lady who has no place and no money,” as New Orleans’ deputy chief administrative officer Ann Duplessis described it, but that, “People have to assume some responsibility for their decision.”

The city hopes the last of the trailers will be gone over the next three months, the same time frame Landrieu set to deal with 10,000 other blighted buildings in the city. The FEMA trailer closures are part of Landrieu’s aggressive anti-blight program, which he kicked off after winning his chance to lead the city last year. “The first thing you have to do is have very strict enforcement, which we did not have in the city,” Landrieu said on New Orleans’ WWLTV’s morning news program back in November. “So we’ve just kinda let people get by. We’re not going to do that anymore.”

Those who don’t comply could see their property “moved back into commerce,” Landrieu said at the time.

(a very politically obscure way of saying, "fuck you, your stuff gets sold at auction")

more at link...
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #53
66. Those Fema trailers that made people sick? THOSE trailers?
People. Need. HOUSING.
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City Lights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
54. K&R.
:cry:
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PJPhreak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
56. A Hardy K&R!
Thank You bobbolink,For keeping this issue in the minds of us here.

Please keep fighting...Some young kid may end up being better off because of you.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #56
67. Thank you very much for the kind words. BUT, I cannot fight this alone.
Until the rest of you become heavily involved, nothing is going to "change", if I may use that word.

What are you willing to do? The few of us fighting this are quickly wearing out.
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PJPhreak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #67
72. "What are you willing to do?"
The same as always...Lets just say after being one of the "Chronic Homeless" thru the 80's and 90's...All I can do is keep fighting.
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handmade34 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
57. there should be NO homeless people
it takes the collective will to change this insidious situation


http://sacramentostepsforward.com/events.php

http://sacramentostepsforward.com/_pdf/Sacramento-Coutywide-Homeless-2011-Summary.pdf


"The Sacramento County Department of Human Assistance Homeless Programs (DHA) and Sacramento
Steps Forward (SSF) present the following findings from the 2011 Point-in-Time Homeless Count. Held
during the evening of January 27, 2011, the Homeless Count consisted of two distinct components: an
unsheltered count and survey of persons living in places not meant for human habitation and a sheltered
count (persons living in emergency or transitional housing)."


% Change Since 2009
Chronically Homeless* -24.6%
Other Homeless -14.0%
Total Homeless -15.8%

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Hutzpa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
58. KnR

:kick:
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
59. Enthusiastic K&R. This issue needs to be in-your-face every single fucking day.
People need to be shamed that this is happening in THEIR country. Because it IS shameful - and 100% WRONG! :mad:
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
60. Sad that the only real reporting on the problems in this country comes from
Edited on Fri May-13-11 10:56 AM by Javaman
a foreign nation.

:(

while our "news" engages in full contact stupidity.
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #60
68. Same thing with the article I posted yesterday about a potentially promising AIDS treatment.
But we all sure as hell know all about Lindsay Lohan's legal troubles. :eyes: Ridiculous 'media'.
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totodeinhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 11:04 AM
Response to Original message
63. That is a two year old article. Things have got much worse since then. n/t
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LongTomH Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
69. K&R & Forward
I'm sending this out to my 'SAMIZDAT' political mail list. :kick:
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #69
74. Thank you for doing that! We need to facebook and tweet things like this!
If you can help with those efforts, that would be terrific!

:yourock:
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99th_Monkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
75. In Portland OR we got Dignity Village started on city land 10 years ago, and it's a great model
I was one of the organizers working with homeless folk to create a "self-governed green urban village" with tents for starters, but which has been evolving for 10 years into a collection of earth-friendly structures, and common areas, complete with wind power, community gardens, showers & sanitary facilities, etc. It was a struggle at first, squatting on city land, and getting chased by police from one location to the next; but public support pushed the issue into the lap of the City Commissioners, who eventually granted them use of a city-owned piece of land on outskirts of town.

Check it out here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dignity_Village
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #75
76. Dignity Village is intriguing! I read your link, and am particularly interested in the adobe
Edited on Fri May-13-11 02:16 PM by bobbolink
buildings, having grown up in northern New Mexico, and lived in an adobe house as a baby.

There are some real drawbacks, and I am not sure I would want to liver there myself, but this has a LOT of possibilities, and certainly deserves support. Kudos to the leader who began this!

Is there any effort at "exporting" this idea to other locales?

Kudos to you for being one of the organizers! Are you still involved?

I notice the article says permission granted through 2010... what is the current status?

Thank you so much for posting this! :yourock:
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99th_Monkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #76
81. There was one crucial law that, on balance, allowed it to move forward.
I'll try to answer your questions, but I've been out of touch with the Village for several years now.

There was a documentary with a "Tool kit" being produced, a major deal by a local small scale video team, and I think the idea of the tool kit was to provide basic info and support for other efforts across the nation. The video team however, recently moved back east somewhere, so I'm not certain of whether the tool kit is available still or not, or even if it ever got fully completed. Here's a link to Heather Mosher's facebook page, where you could message her any questions you may have: https://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/hmosher1

The Village used to have a kick-ass webpage, but it is currently down, and has been for awhile, so sorry I can't forward you that link. They do have a facebook page with lots of cool photos of the "early years", and you could certainly post questions on their wall, or message them: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Dignity-Village/254702658436

The structures vary in the materials used: some hay-bale, some adobe, some with recycled lumber, mostly the latter I think.

I'm uncertain of the current status with the City, but haven't heard anything about them being forced out, which I would have heard about it in local news, if that were the case.

Thanks for your interest. I'm currently happily retired, but I've always been a strong advocate of this as a model for other localities. My role was focused pretty much on getting them incorporated as their own self-governed 501c3, which involved drafting articles of incorp. and by-laws that reflected their desires for their own community, how to run elections of officers, roles of officers, etc. This involved sitting down in daily meetings for months and months, with whoever was interested from the village, to hammer out the exact language and intent.

Oh, and one other detail. One of the things that moved this ahead with the City of Portland was that we discovered an old law on the books that allowed every municipality in the state to wave regular building codes (typically a HUGE sticking point when asking the city to "sanction" a tent city, for obvious reasons) in the case of an urban campground, and the codes would be relaxed to allow yurts, domes, etc. instead of conventional structures. This took away the arguments against the Village as being "illegal" due to "not meeting building code standards".

In my opinion, this is probably the main reason "exporting" this model to other states may not work, unless they first borrow Oregon's law, and get it passed in their own state. No small task.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #81
84. +1
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #75
87. That does look intriguing, 99th_Monkey.
:thumbsup:
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #75
92. +1,000,000,000,000,000,000
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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
88. Highly Recommend!!! n/t
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SteppingRazor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
93. Minor point, but there's a glaring error in the cutline for the "Migrant Mother" photo.
According to Dorothea Lange, the family had just sold the tires on their car for food, not a tent.

And a side note to that, years afterward, the woman in the picture (I think her name was Frances Thompson) maintained that they had done no such thing.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #93
94. Yes, thanks for reminding us that is much more important than 1,200 people living
in tents in Portland, Ore.

THIS is why homelessness is the epidemic it is.
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SteppingRazor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #94
96. I did say "minor point," didn't I?
It's not like it's on you, it was the Daily Mail's error. Nor does my pointing it out somehow make me less in-tune to the ravages of homeless life, or the decisions that we, as a collective, make that perpetuate the atrocity.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #96
97. Wouldn't it have been nice to at least mention something about the topic... people who are SUFFERING
rather than only a criticism?

Is it really that hard? Really?
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SteppingRazor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #97
98. I thought all of that had been asked and answered.
Sorry my interest in historical photography has so deeply offended you. I can make up for it now, if you like: Yes, homeless is awful. Yes, there's a lot more that each of us as individuals and as a country can do about the situation. Yes, it's a goddamn shame that homeless people are looked at as some insignificant "other" rather than as actual human beings with the same hopes, fears, wants, and needs as just about every other human being on the planet.

I've read plenty of your stuff before, bobbolink, I know you have a personal connection with this issue, so I don't begrudge you being at all prickly over it. But it was not my desire, in any way, to ignore the meat of the story, I only thought I'd point out what I thought to be an interesting fact about the Lange photo, and I thought the theme of the story had already been covered well upthread, needing no further comment from me.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #98
101. Given that this issue is IGNORED in this country, in this party, and on "progressive" media,
it is ANYTHING BUT, "covered well".

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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #93
121. ...
Another interesting thing, which you may already know. Frances Thompson was Cherokee, born on a reservation. Such an iconic photo and few people realize she was native american.

Kinda fascinating
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Lifelong Protester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
99. I don't care how damn old the article is, the problem is still here
Edited on Fri May-13-11 07:37 PM by Lifelong Protester
still here, and it is shameful.

"Land of the free"?? when my fellow citizens are living in tents because some bailed out banksters crashed the economy, and now WHINE at the least suggestion that they ought to pay?? We are not free, we are beholden to a mob more corrupt than the mafia. It makes me sick. And everyday it gets worse. And yes, it is frightening, but we need to look it in the face and do something.

When the hell are we going to listen to George Mcgovern and figure out how to get our priorities in line (paraphrase for all the sticklers here)? Our citizens need to demand MORE because, guess what? There is MORE out there, but only if you are a member of Wall Street or Big Oil or other "protected class' in this land.

One thing we can all start with is doing an empathy check. We can all learn to exhibit more empathy towards the issue and folks who live with homelessness and crushing poverty. If you can do nothing else, learn some empathy.

Second, we can use our keyboards to contact any and every elected official you can. I know, I know, that's a slow process, but I can tell you, if they don't hear from us, they think everything is okey-dokey.

Third, spend some of your time or money with groups that are working to alleviate poverty and homelessness. Maybe you can afford $10, maybe three hours, whatever, just contribute.

And for all of you who don't know Bobbie, leave her alone if you can't say something constructive. Cripes, if I had to go through what she must go through everyday just to function, I don't know if I would have what it takes to do any more than just survive day to day and think of myself. She is working on this issue, and puts me to shame.

I'm glad she counts me as a friend here. I haven't lost all of my soul, I guess.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 08:32 PM
Response to Original message
100. Go to Home Depot/Lowes and GET YOUR TENT..REI and the Camping Equipment Stores...It's Hot!
DISASTER AMERICA! GET YOUR TENT AND CANNED FOOD ...STORE IT UP. Can't hurt in any way ...given some "Climate Change"...Coming Your and MY WAY!
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
102. kick
Error: you can only recommend threads which were started in the past 24 hours
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xmas74 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
103. I finally had the chance to sit down and actually read this.
Really busy day trying to line up temp work for the summer. Not fun:(

We've discussed this before. It's not right that this is happening here in the US. This isn't a "progressive/liberal" or a "conservative" or what have you issue. This is a human rights issue that transcends all labels.

A friend just found out she's going to lose her trailer. The recession hit her hard and she lost her job. Now she's working for very low wages as a CNA when she once worked as a counselor. The trailer she bought is now far too expensive for her to keep paying for and she's losing it. What makes this really sad is her six year old asked her (and I quote) "Why do they have all these empty houses with no one in them when there are people who need them?"

What do you tell a six year old child when she asks that question? No one knew the answer.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #103
105. This is what we don't hear out there on our "Whore Media."
Everything will be "Local" these days coming. We will have to depend on each other...and in some areas it will be the "church connection" ...so those folks who have "networked" there will be more important that us Liberals/Unchurched and Unaffiliated who are Out Here in Blogosphere Land...that will not survive...unless we have relatives and friends connected to the "Churched" where Bush and Obama are pouring money.

Just saying. And...I'm a fallen away Episcopalian...just so you don't think I'm some fundie pushing stuff at you... But, it seems to be what's going on out there.

If you have a church affiliation and in that network you will survive these Climate Change terrible stuff we are going through. If you are like many of the rest of us "fallen out"...unchurched...you will be on your on.

To be an "Indie" in these times means a much more CREATIVE NETWORK...that many have but many of the rest of us do not...having been cut off from friends, family and church...because we were Independent and SAW the terrible stuff coming and couldn't hack the Propaganda.

We might need to rethink. Not much support out there, these days for "Independent Thought"...at least from what I can see floating around.

Maybe some of you are luckier?
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xmas74 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #105
107. I'm "church-affiliated".
I'm a Methodist and I do attend on a regular basis. I know my church does what it can in my community but it only goes so far. They offer free meals every Wednesday night with no strings attached, work every committee/fundraiser around town, etc. Like I said-it's still just a small town church and it only goes so far. Now if they were to join with other churches and speak with the city council that would be an entirely different thing.
An example in my small town would be abandoned housing. We have some very old abandoned houses in areas of town that are not doing well. The owners owe years of back taxes. The city should be able to take the houses for the taxes and instead of selling them on the courthouse steps they could ask for area groups to clean and renovate them into a living condition. Once that's done they could move a group of singles or a family that is needing a place to stay, prorating the rent or working out a barter. Either way it's a win-win. The houses are inhabited by people who need them and the properties are no longer falling into disrepair.

As to my friend: someone else called her tonight. They spoke with someone about the situation (rapid drop in income, two children under the age of ten, lot fees that have gone up nearly $300 since she moved into the trailer court, etc) and that person has a place for her to rent. At the end of the month they'll have a one bedroom apartment that she can actually afford.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #105
110. Being "affliliated" doesn't matter. REally, it doesn't.
There may be some areas left where churches give a damn, but not where I have seen it. For the most part, churches no longer have any direct contact with poor people. They may give donations to some "help" agency that doles out a few canned goods, but that is pretty much it. It doesn't matter if you are a member or not... if you are in need, you need to go elsewhere.

To put it bluntly... back a few months ago when I was so sick, I was severely dehydrated and low blood sugar. The church where I was wouldn't even let me use the damned restroom, let alone help me with getting some nutrition into me! That was a real eye-opener to me of just how inhuman people in this society have become.

"Progressives" only think in terms of charity when it comes to homelessness. We see it all the time here. Trying to get through to PROGRESSIVES that that is exactly what the conservatives want, and that CHARITY cannnot and will not solve anything just makes people mad. I don't even have any idea any more how to get through to people. Its like a damned brick fucking wall!
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xmas74 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #110
117. I know my church does what it can
with free meals and such but most of the funding now goes into a ministerial alliance, in cooperation with a number of other churches. My friend who is having problems went to the alliance and they turned her down, stating that they had too many cases and hers was not a priority. My pastor seemed to have no idea that people were turned away from services!

Once we found out about her being turned away others in the network made phone calls. If she hadn't known me I don't know what would have happened to her, since she was turned away from the organization she was told to call. (Catholic Charities told her to call Salvation Army, since they had no funding. Salvation Army left a message on their machine to call Ministerial Alliance, which then turned her down. And Catholic Charities was referred to her by Family Services, since they do not offer any kind of emergency housing.)

I know in my county the churches have been told that if they send everything over to the MA they can make more of an impact with the funding. I've haven't witnessed this happening. If anything, it seems that they receive less then they did when it came from a church.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #117
126. Yes, those "minsterial alliances".... where to begin.
"I've haven't witnessed this happening. If anything, it seems that they receive less then they did when it came from a church."

Exactly. this is what is happening all over the country, and I could go into a whole sermon oon this. Let me just add this example:
In the equivalent church "alliance" in the town where I am, the "pet" they picked out to elevate told me about the fund-raising dinner she went to, where they give out the awards, pump people up to give more, etc. She said in the speech they were all told that "If you help 2 out of 100, you are doing well." She was horrified and left, because the town thinks EVERYONE is assisted who goes there. She told me she kept thinking "What happens to the other 98?"

I think we all know the answer to that.

The Gift of the Poor
The people with the best sense of what is essential to a community, of what gives and maintains its spirit, are often doing very humble, manual tasks. It is often the poorest person - the one who has a handicap or who is ill or old - who is the most prophetic. People who carry responsibility must be close to them and know what they think, because it is often they who are free enough to see with the greatest clarity the needs, beauty and pain of the community.
- Jean Vanier, Community and Growth, p. 262

The Cry of the Poor
We are all afraid of the cry of the poor, afraid when we see a man lying, beaten up, on the ground. If we stop to help a person like this, we are bound to lose something – time, money, possibly more. Someone might accuse us of having been the one to beat the person up. We do not want to get our hands dirty. Perhaps at a deeper level we have a vague idea that what the poor man really wants is solidarity, friendship and communion. But we ourselves are poor in our ability to love and in our readiness to change. So a wall has grown up between those who are well integrated into society, and those who have been pushed aside.
- Jean Vanier, Our Journey Home, p.18
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xmas74 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #126
129. Just five years ago,
when I lived in better times, I volunteered with the church. We always had a box of food for anyone who asked with a milk voucher, a pack of diapers, etc. What money was available was given. We had a member who was a hair stylist and she would give free haircuts to children for back to school and also offered free hair cuts with a voucher from a church member for job seekers who had fallen on hard times. We had a dentist who would do some work for free or a very low fee and a doctor who would give physicals to those in need. Someone at the church was always baking something and there was usually a plate of cookies for the kids to snack on while the parents spoke to someone about what they needed. People would make Lord's Acre donations, which also went into food boxes. And someone was always making an afghan or quilt that was donated for anyone who needed it. (And the work was stunning!)

Since we've gone to the MA we no longer do any of this. Those who do actually qualify for MA must take a four hour course on budgeting and financing, taught in a Christian manner (though as a Christian I don't understand what this means) before they get a check for $75. That's all they get. Our food boxes were worth more and we didn't demand anyone take a class or come to services or even pray with us. We offered and they accepted. That's all.

I never though five years could make such a huge difference in how things are run.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #129
131. You have witnessed the growing of Mean. :( That "taking a course" is SOOO demeaning, and it
Edited on Sat May-14-11 03:27 PM by bobbolink
certainly wasn't what JESUS had in mind. Your church needs to speak up about that, because that demeaning behavior is being done in THEIR name!

I was just talking with an elderly couple I met a few weeks ago. They were telling me that their church now does the same thing. They used to take donations and clothing etc., until this organization took over.

They said, "When we walked in, it was just COLD." In his quiet and gentlemanly way, the elderly mann said they used to take in bags of clothes, etc., but they were met with such condescension (for giving donations!) that he will NOT do it anymore. I said, "If they treat people with donations that way, you can imagine how they treat those who come for "help". " He nodded his head sadly.

I said, "So now you know -- when you hear these stories of people who refuse to go to a shelter, and people judge them by saying, 'They don't want to have to obey the rules', you now know that a lot of that is that they refuse to be treated in such an insulting way." Again, they agreed. They are able to put themselves in the shoes of others, and empathize.

We had quite a talk, and I know that after our talk, they are thinking of how to speak up on this and bring change. For an elderly and probably conservative couple from the south, they are quite aware, and definitely on the side of poor people.

More than a lot of "progressives" I have seen. :(

We MUST keep speaking up. We MUST.
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xmas74 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #131
133. It's the entire town.
All the churches, except the Catholic and the LDS, use the MA service. They've bought into it hook, line, and sinker.

A few have been speaking up but they seem to have the church convinced that this allows us time to work on our international projects.

I'll keep it up.
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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #117
158. This is the first I've heard of these organizations.
Is their funding federal 'faith based' funds? From this post & the posts below, it sounds like it's just another scheme for siphoning funds for the needy to the not-so-needy.

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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #110
150. Bobbie....in the Southeastern USA it's not like what you say. They really DO help
Edited on Sat May-14-11 06:00 PM by KoKo
their congregations. They help their own. That's the point of my post. You either belong to a "Group" to get the "Benefits" or you become a "Loner."

Many of us have chosen to be "Loners" or circumstances "Chose for Us" that we would be "Loners," and we will not survive what's coming.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #103
112. glad to see you back here again!
Its hard to even know what to say about this anymore. The lack of concern is a huge wall.

I am coming to the very sad conclusion that it will only waken most progressives when this whole thing totally explodes.

It won't be pretty.
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xmas74 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #112
116. In her case,
we were able to work quickly. Everyone spread the word and someone found a simple one bedroom for a reasonable rate. It'll be ready at the end of the month. The kids have the bedroom and mom gets the couch. And we're all chipping in for extra locks, since it'll need it.

It's better than the alternative, that's for certain. But I still don't know what to tell her six year old daughter. She should have no idea at that age about what is happening.

I'd say maybe if people realize how many children are affected they'd act but that campaign has been in my area for quite some time, with little response. I don't know what to do anymore.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #116
123. I'm glad you were able to help her. The fact is, however, that these personal solutions
will never solve the problem.

And those who aren't personally helped feel worthless and of no value.

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xmas74 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #123
130. I'm glad I could help
but as I've also said somewhere on here, if I hadn't been around what would she have done?

She needed the help and there is no reason why she had to receive it in such a way. It should have been easy to obtain, instead of going to half a dozen agencies and having them all turn you down. There is no reason for anyone to be humiliated.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #130
132. I mentioned your story on this to that elderly couple I mentioned above.
They were horrified, but not surprised. It had a big effect on them. I told them how few people are actually served, after The Great Runaround, and they were upset.

I think they are going to be discussing this between them, and taking some action on it.
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xmas74 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #132
135. Good!
Someone needs to do something. I speak up regularly but I'm just one person and not a person with much power. I'm not homeless but I am poor. This allows many to view me as "white trash". It doesn't matter to them that I work full time and take classes.

I really think the MA is one of the worst things to happen to the poor in my town.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #135
137. Two things I told them.... There needs to be "quality control" in terms of not just finances, but
how people are treated.

Would it be possible to arrange for someone to go in and apply for "help" incognito, and report on how they were treated?

When I got garbage to the equivalent of your MA in my town, I went to two clergy who very nicely blew me off. I knew I was blown off, and it hurt, but I wasn't feeling very strong at the time. A bit later, I went to another clergy, and she immediately got out a pad of paper and pen and took notes about what I was telling her. She thanked me for reporting it, saying that their church gave big bucks to this "help" agency, and she wanted to know how their money was being used. I said that I have heard real horror stories, but they (churches, and especially clergy) weren't going to hear them, because people won't talk about it. They take the humiliation and slink away, never to be seen again. She agreed with that. I suggested what whas needed was an ombudsman, neither church nor agency, who people could talk with. She agreed with that. I didn't hear back from her.

When I went back to her weeks later, I asked about it, and she looked at me intensely and said she had gone to look into it herself. I asked her how it went, and she said, "I was treated very rudely." She had gone just to give some donations, and like the elderly couple I told you about, she was treated badly.

It so happened that the president of the board of the "agency" was a member of her church, so she went to him. The upshot? Two volunteers were fired (you have to be a really bad volunteer to get fired! I assume one was the one who was rude to the pastor), and there was a bit of a shakeup in the organization.

I know they did a survey of the recipients, but there was never an omsbudsman instituted.

Could there be something like this where you are?

What is needed are both those things... and impartial ombudsman, and an "undercover" researcher. ^_^

I said this to the couple I talked about earlier, and I could tell it sent their wheels to turning. ^_^

Thank you for speaking out. I know what that is like when you are the only one. I hope you can gather some other people. We MUST change this!

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xmas74 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #137
141. Those are all good ideas.
Something needs to be done. What is happening now isn't right or fair.

If combining funds did what it was supposed to do-offer more help to a larger audience-it would be wonderful. It's not working. My church offered more before, as did the local AME and a Pentecostal and a Korean Baptist. Between them many were helped. The churches would send people over to each other, knowing one could help in a specific area while the other offered more for something else. An example is the Korean Baptist would weatherize homes for free while another group would find ways to help pay down overdue heating notices. Now that the churches no longer do this individually (or as a small group) there is a three year wait list for weatherization assistance.

It's just so out of hand. I'd love to know where all the money goes!
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #130
140. What she would have done is what so many others do... go further down into the hole. :(
This is why I keep harping on societal changes rather than personal problems. Charity is never going to work except for the few lucky ones. I get regularly shot down for that, but your friend exemplifies exactly WHY I keep saying that.


What I forgot to say earlier about the demeaning attitudes, is that I have heard so many people say, "I'll starve before I go back and get treated like that again." And that includes people here on DU. I must say, I wholeheartedly agree. Physically starving is better than starving your whole spirit.
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Zax2me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
111. Nice link, thanks -
Why aren't our newspapers covering this?!
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #111
122. Because we aren't pushing it! The bigger question is... WHY aren't our "progressive" media covering
this?

There has been criticism on this thread that this is a 2-year-old article. So, WHY IN HEAVEN'S NAME isn't RACHEL, AMY, HArTMANN, etc making a BIG deeal of this? Why do "progressives" NOT know all the facts about homelessness?

WHY?

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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #122
134. Because that's not their audience
sadly
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #134
142. I don't know what you mean..? Gays can only listen to gay, Latinos can only listen to latinos?
that sort of thing?

If so, we are sunk. And let it happen fast, I say.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #142
143. No
Frightened liberals don't want to hear about poverty
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #143
144. So, we leave them in peace, to ignore us (literally) to death?
THEN, of course, they CROW about "solidarity". :puke:

I fully recognize most don't want to hear it. The vilification makes that very clear.

So, what do we do? Die quietly and quickly? Isn't that what we blast the RW for?
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #144
145. As social mobility crashes, the impoverished ranks will grow
Not much comfort to anyone I'm afraid
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #145
146. And we will be long dead, so that is basically what you are saying.
Some of us don't intend to "go gently into that good night".
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #146
148. If you're waiting for 'progressives' to save you, yes n/t
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #148
151. Many of us are trying to accept that not only will we die, but it will have to be by our own hands.
To be so casual about that...... I can't say what I think.

At the very least, they certainly can't count on our votes, now, can they?


Fuck 'em!
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PotatoChip Donating Member (481 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
118. Amazingly horrible sight
Wow,I wish, I don't know. I'm at a loss for words- What are we to do? We've got to DO something!!!
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #118
124. It *is* stunning, isn't it? And it is worse than that now, in many places.
There *IS* much to do... there are things we are working on.

I would very much appreciate your help.

Thanks! :hi:
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
136. Yeah...those people don't count to American capitalists. They
can't be used as human capital so they are of no concern to Wall Street and the WH. Maybe if they won the lottery.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #136
155. "Those people" don't count to PROGRESSIVES.
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Liberal_in_LA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
139. k&r for an excellent thread. Thanks Bobbo
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