I just got back from a business trip and had to go through Security 3 times and I want to say

that the TSA employees were courteous, alert and professional. The new guy at La Guardia was concerned because the boarding pass I had been given at the first leg of the trip was printed on a US Airways form and I was at the Delta terminal. He didn't think I was a threat, just wanted to make sure I wasn't lost. His supervisor was right there to explain things. (Also - way to perpetuate the stereotype of the uncaring New Yorker!).

So, I am certain we'll here now about how TSA is all Kabuki theater, and there will be horror stories. I jsut wanted to add some balance.

you. I have been singled out for the full body scanner, as well as the enhanced patdown, and have not experienced anything remotely like what many here are alleging.

guard at Philadelphia who pointed me in the right direction when I changed planes?

guards at the Daley center here in Chicago. Granted the guards at the Daley center deal with people who are angry because they have to go to court or jury duty every day.

being treated like a criminal.

if so, I'd want to be arrested there

age can't be terrorists? Isn't that reverse profiling?

Check it out. Rules rule.

at 35000 feet?

Just asking...

patdown by some TSA flunkie make you safer? You aren't a terrorist. And it's a pretty safe bet that someone out to create havoc on a plane is going to be smart enough to figure out how to get past TSA in the first place.

How would the TSA know the poster was a terrorist? Because the poster told them? Secondly, with 2M people flying daily, if anyone determined to create havoc can just get part the TSA, why aren't there lots more of these incidents?

I'm shocked!:sarcasm: Sorry for the really really dark sarcasm but it seems like thats what some people here believe thats all TSA agents do.

it's really ridiculous.

dud

Obeying laws is not genuflecting. Now, come up with some other absurd claim.

And you seem to be loving it.

I guess we are in decline.

Airport security makes us the Soviet Union?

LOL!

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When you can't win the debate on the merits, just accuse your opponent of some variation of authoritarianism.

Too funny.

Now...are you going to do something or just stand there and bleed?

Are we cross?

the bin so I wouldn't have to haul it back to the counter?


I'm not totally wishy-washy - it used to really drive me around the bend when I had to sign in at the door, sign in at the office, sign out at the office and then sign out at the door when I picked up one of the kids at school for a regular doctor's appointment and not once did anyone ask for ID! But I understand that airplanes are an attractive target.

but no one reports on the guy/gal who had a gun today and did not use it.

on my many flights.

I'm sorry if others have had a bad experience, but I have not seen any bad behavior, only courtesy, on my flights.

TSA employees do and still be against full body scanners...if i wanted nude images of me on the internet, i would start a web site :)

Of course if i started such a website, i would fully expect a visit from homeland security...

and am willing to tolerate small discomforts to get there alive. Apparently not everyone feels the same.

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for being lazy and unprofessional, I left a valuable personal item at an airport screening. I found out later that the item was turned in to a supervisor and was taken to lost and found. When I figured out where I may have left it and called, I was asked to give a description of the item, which I did. The agent that talked to me then got the address to mail the item to and mailed it back to me, safely packed and insured. And I did not pay a cent for my own screwup. My experience before the event described and since has been nothing but positive with TSA agents and their conduct while doing their jobs. I don't understand where the complaints are coming from, but given the attitude displayed by some on DU that their small piece of the world is so precious, I have an idea of why the complaints exist to begin with.

there was no problem.

fear of radiation exposure, but then figured, screw it - I've had so much exposure in my lifetime, accidental and medical that it wouldn't make any difference.

Welcome to fascism, torture on aisle 5. Unwarranted spying on all aisles.

an insult to Walmart greeters.

Hard to believe the apologists here who are so scared of phantom boogeymen that they would gladly bend over to the government, surrendering both freedom and dignity in order to have the illusion of safety.

or did you pull a hedgehog on them? ;-)

It's nice the TSA is working to improve their PR image. They have to -- their revenue stream comes from it. And absolutely no doubt most TSA employees are really great people.
Even the most monsterous organizations in history were full of charming or sympathetic individuals and the TSA is FAR from that category.

However, they are also FAR from harmless to our ideals and your testimonial doesn't delve into THAT too deeply.

For some reason you have bottom lined this, oversimplifying concerns about policy and administration into some kind of simpleminded hatred of the TSA rank and file.

Why?

nt

Thanks for the anecdote.

The issue is the very existence of TSA, not the workers who carry out its policy as best as they're able.

airport security system, dude.

Can't wait to see your design.

Four years to RAM through what should have been designed in from the start:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/01/AR2011020105305.html

Wow, the privacy concerns GO AWAY because it is no worse than a metal detector.

Can't wait to see your justification for TSA ineptitude.

You don't appear to want principled debate. Go fight by yourself.

I will have to fight by myself.

Edit. Removed a jab. I figure my responder CAN'T defend the TSA. This was a boondoggle.

"can't wait to see your design" and "can't wait to see your justification for TSA ineptitude"?

Really?

So yes, "really."

poison the debate?

Can you see how "can't wait to see your justification for TSA ineptitude" does?

Your original comment went along
the lines of "If you can do better,
do it." with the "Can't wait to see
your design" a seeming indicator that
you are not expecting a result. Now
perhaps you were sincere, but the use
of the word "dude" at least by me
is an indicator that the intent of
the comment may be a bit demeaning.
YMMV of course.

My point was that most of the privacy
problems with the system were easily
rectified, the exact solution being
proposed by an engineer four years ago.
The TSA ignored his suggestions, though
they were more than reasonable and he
had a relatively credible background.

The flap that so many DU'ers think was
some right wing conspiracy last November
got this engineer some press time and
as a result the TSA felt some pressure
to consider his changes (which as admitted
by all were pretty painless) which led to the
story I linked to.

Now the radiation issues are something
else entirely, yet the TSA doesn't want
their people wearing radiation badges
for some reason. Even though my work
deals with much lower dosages, we have
radiation safety people AND we wear
badges.

Why should I trust a safety organization
that does not care for the safety of their
workers?

So, you don't know the TSA's reasoning, but you already know they "don't care for the safety of their workers"?

I am saying that there is a history of unresponsiveness and secrecy in an area where openness is a plus, so no, I do not "trust" this organization. They have to earn that trust. Sucks to be them I suppose.

Actually the February story shows that when faced with sufficient pressure they will eventually do the right thing. In that way, they're not irredeemable and that's a start.

Really? On the spectrum between secrecy and openness, you can't see why the TSA wouldn't tilt more to the secrecy side?

Again, YMMV.

You can fly while being on the "no fly list"

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/17/business/yourmoney/17digi.html

Bonus points if you notice how secrecy surrounding a poorly designed system didn't enhance passenger safety, but it did cover quite nicely the people responsible for the screwup as they tried to PUNISH the person pointing out the security hole.

I don't have to prove the opposite. The maker of the claim bears the burden of proof. Look up the logical fallacy known as "trying to shift the burden of proof".

Why did it take four years?

YOU'RE the one who made the claim. Duh.

dude.

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confuses you.

loads. I am finding this an amusing debate and not much more. I'm hoping you're not taking it much more seriously than that either.

Dude.

Do I need to write a dissertation, or merely cite authorities.

the relevance of your statement remains to be determined.

nevermind.

At least as a standard of proof. After all, your next post would be asking me to mail you my birth certificate or something.

Dude.

dude.

I asked you where you worked. A generic answer would have been fine.

Then you get to ignore them.

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I had a different experience. The guy asked me about what "food" I listed as bringing back from France. I started to show him a little box of macaroons I had bought in Paris and he barked "I don't want to see them, just tell me what they are!" He was NOT smiling. And this was before OBL was killed...

First of all, I generally agree that, as people, they're mostly quite courteous and helpful, even when I've been pulled aside for the "random" secondary screening. However, on a recent trip to Cancun I was really surprised at their version of the TSA; nearly every person had their carry-on bags manually searched. Me too, and my wife. In my case, the questioned me about my box of chargers and cables for the various cameras and electronics we were carrying. A woman in front of me had all her knitting stuff taken away (except the yarn). In the states, even when I've been pulled aside, it always seems to be for a "mistake." Like, one guy thought the eyelets on my snowboard boots were suspicious. Huh? At least being suspicious of a box of wires makes sense. What did this guy think I was going to do with snowboard boots? As nice as they may be, they tend to lack common sense in that regard.

The question about our freedoms (or lack thereof) is valid, but a different discussion.

Yukkety yuk...

When I was leaving Brazil, we all went through security, then got pulled aside again halfway down the jetway and had all our carry-ons hand searched.

If TSA is so screwed up, why do so many other countries follow pretty much the same procedures?

know that hangups are going to happen when food, wooden and ceramic items are brought in on international flights. You are lucky the agent did not take the food item to customs, you would have gotten it back it weeks later.

I travel to Europe every year and simply forgot to put that item (bought it last minute at CDG but not in the duty free shop) in my checked bag. So even an experienced international traveler can make a goof.

don't make a move unless the cop tells you to. If he pulls you over and sees you reaching into the glove box, he has no idea if you're being helpful and grabbing your registration and license or reaching for a gun. In this case - you could have been reaching in to pullout a packet of powder or whatever.

It's natural for innocent people to try to be helpful and provide information. It's hard for us to understand that our actions could be misconstrued.

It was in a lovely bag (from Laduree, a Paris tea room!)that I got at the store's CDG airport store cart. I should have known better, since I go to Europe every year. I think he knew it was just an oversight and not a big deal. Actually, I'm glad he was so gruff. I would rather have him be that way!

I probably go through security over 150 times each year.

I've never had an issue with TSA. Of course, I know what I'm doing and don't sit and argue about removing my shoes for 5 minutes like some passengers.

I don't think the nude-o-scopes are worthwhile but I've been through them. I understand they can't be seen profiling which to me is stupid if you really want to make flying more secure, but that's not their fault.

In fact, I do not remember a flight where TSA workers were anything but professional. At MSP, they even smile a lot, and are especially helpful to older travelers and families..

year better duck now. Even if you are middle class.

sneakers or steel toe shoes. I am an overweight white woman of a certain age from a small town. My picture is in the dictionary under "person with no authority whatsoever".

an infringement on our rights. so for you accepting these intrusive actions you feel not violation or unrest. the person that feels these are intrusions and wrong will feel a wrong.

The workers are not at fault for doing what they are told to do.

allowed a power and control over people and embracing it. absolutely. you have some that understand their responsiblity in the position, and those that abuse it because it makes them feel better about themselves.

but i also know it is in the position of policy that is the real issue. which enables the individual worker to be in that position.

i know obama could do something. and i am disappointed that he has chosens bush's path

thru security.

I travel with someone in a wheelchair.
Departing Phoenix was a nitemare. Departing Chicago O'Hare was a breeze.

San Diego always used to see my umbrella as a security threat -- no one else did. A corkscrew that had gone through three previous screenings unscathed became a weapon of mass destruction in Chicago. ("He's got a blade!!! He's got a blade!!!) A very nice man in Key West showed me how to get my metal belt buckle through without taking my belt off. (Turn it sideways) A guy in Hartford at 5 a.m. on a snowy morning informed me that the plastic bag with my liquids was 1/2-inch too big and I would have to get a smaller bag to get through.

departing from Phoenix. If you were a terrorist trying to smuggle something on board using a wheel chair, you go where the wheel chairs are. It makes sense Phoenix would be more scrupulous.

On the other hand, maybe people in Chicago are just more helpful than people in Phoenix!
:hide:

* In Boston, it was unnerving in the empty sky bridge to see 4 maximally armed dudes approaching. Just their complaisant smiles at my small startlement were unsettling.

* As I say, I'm an INfrequent, so much has to do with my not knowing what to expect or do. So the dude at a gate snarled at me to do something and I didn't understand what. The passenger in front of me turned and said my windbreaker needed to come off. O.K.

* So I had the week's subway pass in my shirt pocket and another guard flipped out about my emptying the pocket and was deflated to see it was a subway pass. At least he caught something.

* In line I watched the dude doing pat downs being particular about who he patted more extensively. It appeared to be dudes in their 20s in good shape. The kid in front of me thought the pat down was over and started to walk but the guard said, "Wait a minute, let me get your back..." And proceeded to smooth his hands over the dude's back. REALLY, it wasn't that *I* wanted the same massage, but as I prepared to lift my arms and such, the dude just waved me past. I felt short and fat for some reason...

* Went through a scanner. The female guard looked conscientious and overworked and didn't tell me where to go. There was a door with a glass box, so I went in there. I thought that was the passage out and went to the other end and reached for the other door. A supervisor LEAPT to berate the guard, telling her that I was trying to leave the box without permission. She said, "He went in there on his own. *I* didn't tell him to go in there." So, they let me out the entrance door and told me to go around the box.


I realize these comments show my own lack of savoir faire. It's Saturday morning. But there's a nugget of validity to the "abuse" I'm alleging.

for policies we don't like.

The government entrusts the security of airline passengers to poorly trained, unqualified people who aren't paid much.

I suspect those interested in causing trouble aboard an aircraft are somewhat more savvy than those feeling up babies at airports because someone told them to.

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the Rapiscans and patdowns. Both NY and NJ are opposed to the Constitutional abuses of these policies.

So, it's not surprising you would not have been molested as so many others have. Thank the legislature there for their outspoken opposition to the destruction of our rights. And for your better experience as a traveler as a result. At least eight states now are moving to ban the TSA abusive patdowns. See here, Texas just did http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1100077&mesg_id=1100077

twice during my many travels for the wand check. The agent did his job and I moved on. Nothing that was done was offensive and the agents were professional. If people don't want pat-downs, maybe they should listen the fuck up when agents are telling them what they must remove before walking through detectors.

or police and brutality stories, we publicize the miscreant behavior to KEEP it in the small percentage.

I was singled out cause I had a one way ticket to Vegas...cause my guy travels for a living and was in Vegas and we were driving back together.

Anyway, they pulled me outta line and double searched me. The couple behind me had to open their luggage, which was full of grass clippings or marijuana or SOMETHING....the TSA looked at their luggage and sent them thru. Me, they pulled everything outta my carry on, searched it all, touched it all and then sent me thru.

WTF?

They did the right thing. You used the term "moron" in your post and likely used some other terms when the TSA agents were trying to get you to cooperate. A lesson for next time. If you have something going on that stand out and cause you to get flagged, try calmly explaining your situation instead of feeling set upon. Most likely, all you would have had to do was produce a drivers license with the address that you were driving back to. The couple with the green stuff in their luggage likely go through because they were cooperative when asked questions that needed to be asked.

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a bunch of idiots whose only other job option is asking "Do you want to supersize that?" It's even more pathetic that some of the American public believes these morons are capable of keeping them safe.

is that you?

and was the TSA guy getting a boner?

You took the words rightouttamymouth.

" Those willing to give up liberty for security deserve neither and will lose both "

blow-up airplanes in Franklin's day either.

:wtf: DU

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Who want to blow up as many Americans as possible.
I think he might have a different opinion today.

that little thing in 1812 was a fire drill too

Or twinkies... :shrug:

I've had plenty of interactions with TSA personnel who have their act together. But anecdotes in no way invalidate the opposition to TSA tactics.

and for the most part have found TSA employees to be OK. Just like everything
and everywhere else they have their 10%.

contact with was a mean, nasty individual with a giant chip on her shoulder who inexplicably emptied the entire contents of my wallet into a plastic tray and dropped it to the ground.

Happy for you that you had better luck.

Have you contacted Amnesty International yet?

of the terminal and writing out instructions for a passenger in line who was apparently deaf and a bit nervous about the process. I've noticed that the people at some airports seem consistently pleasant and others less so - it really seems that there is a local leadership variability that plays a big role. The map-drawing officer told me that (although it looks the same) some airports are TSA and others are private companies, which could be part of it... :shrug:

I've begun using the train and buses a lot more often in the past ten years. Less headaches for me all the way around.

and i experienced the same as you......

friendly, kind and courteous