Bill Maher: "If you rejoice in revenge, torture and war …you’re not a Christian"

http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/05/maher-bin-laden-gandhi-christian-hypocrisy/

Bill Maher: If you rejoice in revenge, torture and war …you’re not a Christian
Posted on 05.14.11
By Roxanne Cooper

During Friday night’s “New Rules” segment on Real Time, Bill Maher argued that “non-violence was Jesus’ trademark” and that Christians who celebrated the killing of Osama bin Laden are not faithful to the teachings of Christ.

“If you’re a Christian and support killing your enemies and torture, you have to come up with a new name for yourself,” Maher said.

“Capping thine enemy is not exactly what Jesus would do — it’s what Suge Knight would do …Martin Luther King gets to call himself a Christian because he actually practiced loving his enemies, and Gandhi was so fucking Christian he was Hindu”

VIDEO AT LINK

I'm not talking fake Christians, ut the real ones.

Who I believe was a Christian.

I keep hearing about how good real Christians are but they agree with every evil thing their very close cousins do as evidenced by their silent agreement.

Until they speak out against what they pretend are the "few fringe Christians" they are just allies that let others do the dirty work for them.

Christians have been destroying this country since the christian coalition and the hits just keep coming but where is the outrage of the so called different ones?

I can't think of any more real Christians than Bill could and one of them is not even Christian.

Thank you! :thumbsup:

"discovered" by Colon.

they have ceded the pulpit to the nut bags.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/Religion/post/2011/05/catholic-professors-target-john-boehner-over-budget-cuts/1

Catholic professors target John Boehner over budget cuts

More than 75 Catholic college professors sent a publicly released letter to House Speaker John Boehner saying that the budget he supported will hurt the poor, elderly and vulnerable. Boehner, a Catholic Republican, will give the commencement address on Saturday at the Catholic University of America.

"Your record in support of legislation to address the desperate needs of the poor is among the worst in Congress," the letter states. "This fundamental concern should have great urgency for Catholic policymakers. Yet, even now, you work in opposition to it."

It is particularly cruel to pregnant women and children, gutting Maternal and Child Health grants and slashing $500 million from the highly successful Women Infants and Children nutrition program. When they graduate from WIC at age 5, these children will face a 20% cut in food stamps. The House budget radically cuts Medicaid and effectively ends Medicare. It invokes the deficit to justify visiting such hardship upon the vulnerable, while it carves out $3 trillion in new tax cuts for corporations and the wealthy.

I would expect that the majority of Christians that hate science and women so much find them to be little more than a nuisance.

But yes, I expect that times 1000.
The good Christians are so few that I have never really met any.
Mostly they just try to sell me on FOX news and Republicanism as well as a healthy dose of "science is full of shit".

when at least 30% of Christians speak out like that I will rethink my position, but what you are offering no matter how much I applaud it is a fraction of a percentage.

The fact that it was reported with any prominence is the rare occurrence. The Roman Catholic Church was against the Iraq War since before it started, as were many other denominations, for example. Many instances of "real Christian behavior" can be found with a cursory Bing search.

not like them.

They all hate Democrats and believe that torture is a good thing and Bush and Cheney are "Godly" (whatever that is supposed to mean).

Do You think they do not exist or I do not meet them?

As I said I have never met those you speak of, I do believe they exist, but even my local Catholic church has gotten preachy about right wing politics and the need to support right leaning politicians, my elderly neighbor stopped going because of it.

I also noticed you never mentioned the largest population of Christians - fundamentalists, I suppose you think they also are great people concerned with the poor, have you ever heard a sermon from one of them? Who among the good Christians ever questions or speaks out against their hatred? Do you not know that most teabagger types are Christians? Have you ever heard of the Christian coalition? Have you been unaware of the fact that Christians tend to hassle pregnant women and some have even killed or harassed doctors? who among you speak against this behavior?

The silence is deafening from them against them, they are after all one family with similar gaols.
Christians are trying right now to get rid of science in favor of creationism and a fairy tale that the world is only 6 thousand years old and that there is no danger to the environment because God would never let it happen.

It is a dangerous religion full of mean people (that I come into contact with every DAY).
I am afraid you need to face the fact that you are a rare bird indeed.

By contrast those I have met that believe in the Muslim fairytale instead are kind and generous to me, they have fed me and treated me as Christ would. I believe they are more receptive to Christs words whereas Christians are hung up hopelessly on Leviticus and John Calvin (a rather bloody and cruel historical figure). I have even been told that God favors the wealthy and punishes the evil with being poor, do you suggest they were atheist plants telling me these things?

Experiences I have had with Christians in the real world and what people actually do in front of me is much more informative to me than claims that Christians are morally superior beings sent here to help make my world a better place.
Their behavior gives them away and their words reveal what they truly love.

And no, I don't believe you that every single Christian who lives near you hates everyone. You're lying.

concerning who I have met and what they behave like.

Fascinating

and lack of understanding.

Please, do explain.

Fundamentalists make up 20% of Christians in the U.S. -- scarcely the "largest population." :eyes:

why the 80% allow them to do so much damage and get all the press for Christianity in general.
I am not as ignorant as you think as I am an "un-born again ex-christian" that was born and raised Catholic before then.

I have been to more bible study classes than I can remember and learned more than you may think.
I attended five very different fundy churches and met many people, they are very nice to each other I will give you that but not once you leave them and they know you are no longer enslaved by the teachings, that is when they show their teeth much like in this thread, I am not one of you so you all pile on and attack me while ignoring what other Christians are doing to cause harm to this country and this world. I expect at least 10 threads attacking me before tomorrow morning and I know you guys will not disappoint, I used to be washed in the blood of the lamb and I know the drill.

It is the Christians themselves (who I was one of) that taught me about Christianity and how dangerous it was, later I found much more humane faiths to learn from.

Most of what I learned in bible class was that you should burn everything in the bible but Christ's teachings, there is some nasty stuff being taught using the rest of that book.

It is very enlightening when the scales fall from your eyes and you begin to use reason again instead of faith in invisible supermen, it is liberating to see the entire world through clear eyes, I highly recommend it.

It is much like quiting drinking and being able to think again.

:applause:

While your words will fall mostly on deaf ears, your voice of dissent is certainly appreciated by people like me sir. :patriot:

It's right at the top of their list, justifying themselves to some anonymous kid online who hates them anyway.

I think that would motivate them more than trying to gain anyone's approval, why is that not enough?
Why do they silently condone all the evil shit done in their name.

I would think they would get right on that because it would be the right thing to do.
I know they don't care much about me, they have been rather nasty to me because I am not one of them.

By the way, I am a 48 year old "kid" that was an alter boy at one time, I later tried a few other churches when I discovered the hypocrisy of the priest I once trusted.

I learned a great deal about Calvinism in those other congregations and was told to vote conservative and taught that god favors "the elect" and gives them "blessings" (wealth) while punishing "the wicked" with poverty.

Yes I have learned not to trust the hand that bites so many other hands, and I hate the behavior and the beliefs that lead to it, not the people.

To think as a boy I wanted to become a priest because of what Jesus taught only to find out that I would never learn it there.

Because that is just plain ignorant.

Yes, a fig tree.

I've seen posts by people here pilloried for writing what you just wrote about Muslims. (Until they speak out against what they pretend are the "few fringe...)

Do you have the same positions about the silence from many in the Islamic community or is it restricted to one group.

History is littered with the corpses of people killed over such myths.
It is quite sad really, I keep waiting for an age of reason to liberate people from fantasy so they can stop judging and hating others of different myth faiths.

We are going backwards instead, the enlightenment is over and people appear to long for a new dark age of myths led by MEN that interpret "Gods will" for them, sometimes telling them to do bad in the name of good, sometimes telling them to send them their money, on rare occasions they may interpret the myths in positive ways, but from my journey through a few faiths I learned a great deal about "the doctrine of predestination" and about "the elect", and how "science is all bunk".

I think it will kill us in the end, mostly because the climate is changing in such a way that does not bode well for what lives on this planet and the myths refuse to even let us try to reverse it.

I know you all dislike me as evidenced by your posts, I also know you will never acknowledge what the Christian cults are doing in this country via their favorite new power center- the Republican party.

You can pretend it isn't happening, but they are really messing up this country with a myth that has less and less to do with the teachings of Christ, I keep a copy of Jefferson's "bible".
He had the good sense to take out all the nasty bloodthirsty parts and focus on what I wish followers of Christ would, Christ's teachings. I know I will continue to be hated because I point out what you refuse to see in your own brethren.

I leave you to your fantasy, your invisible wrathful sky beings, and your support of the christian coalition ideals, I will just never follow them.

I can't reference which ones right now.
Your name stands out which is why I remember (Dragonfli is unique)

I was just curious as to whether you hold that position with regard to all religions.
You say you do, I have no reason to doubt your honesty.

I hold nothing against you for it.

Thank you for replying.

Have a nice day.

:) :toast:

I am Christian, born again and I did not 'rejoice' over the killing of OBL. What do you base your excessive overgeneralization on?

That is what I base it on, that and what I experience every time I meet a fundy.
So you are born again, tell me what is your position on the doctrine of predestination?
(if you don't know what it is ask your minister)

A Calvin primer:

John Calvin was a Swiss religious reformer and fanatic. He was born in 1509 at Noyon, in Picardy and died in 1564. His father, Gerard Cauvin, procureur-fiscal and diocesan secretary, dedicated him early to the church, and he was presented with a benefice at the age of twelve. The income derived from this nominal office enabled him to proceed to Paris and enter on a course of regular study. He was soon led to entertain doubts respecting the priesthood, and became dissatisfied with the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church; in consequence he gave up his cure, and took to the study of the law in Orleans.


In 1532 he returned to Paris a decided convert to the reformed faith, and was soon compelled to fly, when, after various wanderings, he found a protector in Margaret of Navarre. In 1534 he returned to Paris; but, finding that the persecution against those who were inclined to the doctrines of the reformers was still raging, he retired to Basel in the autumn of the same year. At Basel he completed and published his great work, The Institutes of the Christian Religion (Christianae Religionis Institutio; 1536).


Having gone to Italy, after a short stay at Ferrara he went to Geneva, where reform had just been established. In 1538, in company with Guillaume Farel, he was expelled from Geneva in consequence of the reign of extreme strictness they had introduced, when he went first to Berne and then to Strasburg. Here he married a widow, Idelette de Burie, and had one son, who died early. In 1541 his friends in Geneva succeeded in effecting his recall, when he laid before the council the draft of his ordinances respecting church discipline, which were immediately accepted and published. His college of pastors and doctors and his consistorial court of discipline formed a theocracy, with himself at the head of it, which aimed virtually at the management of all municipal matters and the control of the social and individual life of the people. A magistrate was deposed and condemned to two months' imprisonment because his life was irregular, and he was connected with the enemies of Calvin. James Gruet was beheaded because he had written profane letters and obscene verses, and endeavoured to overthrow the ordinances of the church. Michael Servetus, passing through Geneva in 1553, was arrested, and through Calvin's instrumentality was burnt alive because he had attacked the mystery of the Trinity in a book which was neither written nor printed at Geneva.


His energy and industry were enormous; he preached almost daily, delivered theological lectures three times a week, attended all deliberations of the consistory, all sittings of the association of ministers, and was the soul of all the councils. He was consulted, too, upon points of law as well as of theology. Besides this, he found time to attend to political affairs in the name of the Republic, to publish a multitude of writings in defence of his opinions, and to maintain a correspondence through all Europe. Up to 1561 the Lutherans and the Calvinists were as one, but in that year the latter expressly rejected the tenth article of the Confession of Augsburg, besides some others, and hence arose the name of Calvinists. Calvin retained his personal influence to the last; but a year or two before his death his health had broken down.


John Calvin was the epitome of an unhinged mind which sought an outlet through religious fanaticism, cruelty and megalomania. Though, by using popular religion as his weapon, he was able to practice his lunacy freely and persecute those who dared to question the sanity of his preachings, the bible or live a liberal life.

Calvin and his ilk no doubt saw their hatred of life as a sign of their devotion to God. I would say that the church was full blown psychotic and drunk with power during the Dark Ages of Europe. And it's had a profound influence on modern Christianity, much to its detriment. Just look at the fear so many Christians have of looking outside the Bible for answers. Where did that come from? Jesus said he would be sending the Holy Spirit into people's hearts as our guide, not an instructional guide - and a cryptic one at that! As for old Europe, I'm sure many there were glad to get rid of as many of the crazies as they could by sending them off to the promise of America. I believe that's why we have such a problem with fundamentalism here. Back in the 1600's, 1700's, and 1800's this was fertile ground for great imaginations. There was the freedom to build up entire doctrines or stake out traditions based on one's convictions with little interference from others.

I was exposed to his teachings with the specific American slant of "the rich are blessed by God (that is why they are rich)" and "the poor are being punished for their sinful natures, that is why they are poor".

Another fun jem of this American Christianity is a belief that you are saved by grace alone (nothing you do will qualify you or de-qualify you) and these saved few were chosen before birth by God, being predestined to be superior to all other mortals having been chosen (they are called the elect). Can you see how dangerous these beliefs can be and how it makes it easy for them to accept the killing of all that are not of the elect? They can do anything and be forgiven the next day and giving to the poor is helping sinners while the rich are loved more by God and should be loved more by us.

They are far from harmless and they are trying to take over everything just like their hero Calvin.
Other Christians completely ignore this danger and pretend that they are the fringe, have you ever been to a mega church? they are far from few and harmless and the saner ones condone their insanity by their silence and by downplaying how dangerous they are.

Laurie Anderson said, "language is a virus". I think this evil faith is the true virus and it is spreading uncontrollably.
The Christians that prefer the teachings of Christ to Calvin really should stop providing cover for them just because they identify with them as peers.

To understand the mindset that makes them fear teachings outside the bible you have to understand also that anything that contradicts the bible is a lie by Satan Himself! That is what they taught me, so secular humanists to them are agents of Satan and science is authored by Satan himself to fool us into hell.

It helps to understand the teachings, I am glad I spent so many misguided years with them as I learned what they believe and what they teach in bible class.

It reminds me though that Christianity has quite an extensive web of protection around. They have centuries of practice at explaining away the contradictions and hypocrisy of the Church. Not the least of which is the threat of eternal damnation. Dropping "the faith" *will* cause loss of friendship and community (I know that one first-hand). Their very livelihood may even be threatened. It's more than their ego that wants to be among the chosen few. They cannot conceive of their life outside the walls of their religion.

Many of us have learned the wisdom of 'live and let live' and have learned to co-exist with fundamentalism. We needed to simply out of self-preservation because to call them out on their BS goes deeper than a philosophical difference. But you are right - they are far from harmless, particularly the members of these new, modern mega-churches. The insanity of what goes on in these churches is unfortunately all too clear from the outside and we are at great risk if we ignore them.

This is more anti-Christian bullshit. Large numbers of Christians among the mainstream denominations have been protesting the Religious Right since its flippin' inception. Check out what the World Council of Churches has been doing. Denominations like the Episcopal Church, United Church of Christ, American Baptists (different from the Southern Baptists) have been speaking out until we're blue in the face. You might have noticed that the Presbyterian Church (i.e. the successors of the Puritans, for heaven's sake) have just backed gay clergy. Even Rome, despite the hidebound conservatism of the Vatican on social issues, has an official policy on war and economic justice that makes DU look conservative. And check out any Gay Pride marches and see how many banners for churches are in the parade.

But it doesn't matter, does it? Because people like you have no interest in hearing us. It's not that we're not speaking out, it's that you've got your hands clamped firmly over your ears when we do -- so that you can continue in your anti-Christian bigotry and claim that all you hear is "silent consent," when what you really hear is the silence of your own closed minds.

Nobody can MAKE anybody else think differently, not in a free nation.

Leave the innocent alone and accept their non-christian ways.
I already answered the Muslim question, I am not feeling well and prefer to stop repeating myself to those without ears to hear.
If you wish to know that answer try reading it.

demanding that until ALL Muslims give up their jobs and march full-time to prove they don't support every single terrorist attack by a Muslim, they are all culpable and suspect.

You really should take the bigotry somewhere else.

I hate bigotry, imagine if a group of people were so bigoted as to make life hell for anyone born gay and to constantly lobby for laws to restrict their right to marry or be safe, you are right I should save my criticism for those that hate the gay so much! (as long as I do not ask their church mates to call them on it), I mean asking people to stand up to bigots in their faith is bigoted, better to hate the gays than to criticize those that do.

For example, what percentage of total Christians are "fake" by your definition?

A fake Christian is someone that someone else who considers them self to be a real Christian considers to be fake.

A real Christian is someone who considers them self to be a real Christian even if someone else considers them to be a fake Christian.

Jesus, this is confusing.

in church and get along quite well. I bet Real Christians go to churches with ministers, pastors or priests that are Fake Christians. If you were to ask a Real Christian how many Christians there are in their church, city or world, I bet the numbers they would proudly give you would include Fake Christians. In fact, seems to me that the only time the term "Fake Christians" comes up is when someone objects to the behavior of Christians. Seems to me that the Fake Christians are encouraged because no one tells them they are Fake. I wonder what percentage of Christians supported Bush killing Iraqi children.

"If you rejoice in revenge, torture, and war.. you're not a liberal."

Sadly, I heard many do just that (even on so called liberal talk shows).

acceptable when you're really scared, or maybe where he says sometimes you have to kill?

and still said forgive them they know not what they do.

he died.

No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country. ~ George S. Patton

I don't think you have the slightest clue what Christianity means..

Patton, indeed.

Derp.

Hey, this Catholic says you do not fuck with that part of Jesus' story where He died freely and sincerely forgiving everybody who'd betrayed Him, either physically or morally. Everyone should respect that level of commitment and sacrifice, whether you believe in the Christ tradition or not. It's a teaching that is awfully hard to live up to, as I can personally attest! Forgiveness. Oy! Hard to nail that one. I'm still getting over stuff from transgressions of years ago - that continue to bug me to this day. So what does that say about me? And I never had anywhere near spikes run through my wrists and ankles and then being hung out to dry like that for a long afternoon.

:scared:

To our troll visitor, that's really not something to be taken in vain.

a few money changers. Is why we should declare a "War on Greed."

about the subject.

on the other hand, I am not trying to tell Christians how they should act if they want to be "real" Christians.

out to people that they should practice what they preach.

nt

Christians don't do. :shrug:

if you can't call them Christians anymore?

I just love it when he talks about our "gangsta" president. Oi.

than some so-called Christians I can think of.

If you advocate killing and say you are Christian...guess what...you're not.

"Thou shalt not kill"

It is just that simple.

My youngest son felt vindicated. He left the Church because of what he saw as hypocrisy on the issue as well as its occasional rejection of science. And we're not fundamentalists. It was a mainline Catholic Church with no real political speaking during any Homolies. I don't have to worry about him morally. He left actually for reasons of morality and reason.

is to be aware that there was no spiritual gain.

the thought of going to Bill Mahar to decide who is a Christian just makes me spit milk.

:rofl:

Sid

christians are NOT about trying to be christ-like.

they are paulists. they admire and revere and pray to jesus, but they do not seek to be like him.

many of them, in fact, simply confuse him with santa claus.

Do as we advertise.... but if you don't, you're forgiven.

Now, please pass the collection plate. We have a congregation to support and no taxes.

can't really claim to be following the path of Jesus.

The Vatican wealth is beyond comprehension.

My takeaway from this is not that it is a comment primarily on Christianity... I think it is a given Christianity is hypocritical...

THE point is really about murder and torture.

If you rejoice in either, you aren't just anti-Christian, you're inhumane.

but then again the vast majority of Christians in this country do not give a shit what Jesus said. The guy was a hardcore hippie socialist before socialism was even a real thing.

The reality is this. If there is anyone who is not fully clothed, fed and sheltered living anywhere near you, while you live an extravagant healthy life, you are not a Christian. If there is pain and suffering being experienced by anyone around you, you have a moral obligation to take your own money and time and help that person. The entire basis of Jesus' teachings, is the idea that we all must look out for the least among us at all times. If you drive by a homeless person without offering to bring them into your home and feed them, you are not a Christian.

If you consider yourself a Christian you are obligated to devote your entire life to helping the less fortunate. That is the entire point of Christianity as it was originally intended.

If they were true in the way you describe they would be the best neighbors and citizens one could hope to live among.
Too bad they pay so little attention to what Jesus taught, we could use people like that these days.

A lot of people here are pretty upset at Bill Maher trying to define Christianity when he's an atheist. Well, I was a pretty devout Catholic in my day until I did the unthinkable. I read the Bible. Jesus doesn't just say for you to do everything you've mentioned. He also says to give all your worldly possessions away and follow him. "Give to everyone that asks of you," he says in Luke. Well, once word gets around someone's doing that, they'll be mighty popular. Christianity is all or nothing. Either you follow all it's rules, or you're out of the game. Jesus said so himself. But, that's an almost impossible lifestyle for people to follow in this day and age. Who's going to live a nomadic life, dragging their families around evangelizing? They'd be called religious fanatics and that's what they'd be. But, read the New Testament. That's exactly what Jesus expects. Well, actually, maybe you should leave the family home. You're supposed to hate them. He says that, too. The Old Testament as well, is a book filled with enjoinders to bash babies skulls against rocks and rip open the bellies of pregnant women (Hosea, Psalms 137, 1Samuel 15:3, 2Kings 15:16, for example). I can't possibly guess why fundies are so against abortion when the bible likes it so much. Christianity, according to Jesus, was a 24/7, all-consuming life-style. I can honestly say, looking at the criteria he mentions, I've never met a real Christian. I don't think I'd really want to meet one either unless it was to bum some money off him seeing how he couldn't turn me down.

Catholic in my day until I had my own Martin Luther moment and became a Protestant" :)

Luther squared the circle, so to speak, with his insistence that faith and faith alone is what saves man, not any amount of works.

The Old Testament stuff that gets me is what Joshua did to Jericho after the walls came a'tumblin' down. IIRC, all women and children inside the city walls were pretty much summarily killed. The Old Testament was a pretty brutal place. Thank Goddess, a covenant of love subsumed the old covenant of the law, eh?

He detests religion and specifically Christianity.
He carries the weight of a mouse as a spokesman for what is and isn't a Christian.
What a joke!

Then again, Christianity has long been used by wicked people as a front, so they can look "holy" while committing the worst kinds of atrocities on their fellow man and woman.

Did a documentary on it. He can't know what Christian tradition and doctrine is without currently identifying being a Christian? That's ridiculous. Your logic is the joke.

Try again.

non-Christians. Studies show that Christians are less open-minded than non-Christians. Bill Maher tells the truth. Many Christians lie. I bet most of the Fox-heads are Christians. They have no trouble lying.

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Regarding bin Laden, there may have been no other choice but to shoot to kill. But it is not unreasonable to believe there was.

Whether by drone or bullet, in Pakistan or Libya, it is really the most immoral of actions, despite the layers of justifications and rationalizations.

In the 21st Century, on would think there would be a better way to manage conflicts and prosecute crimes.

and killing a village full of innocent women and children to get at one criminal is considered to be "crime prosecution".
I am not comparing the assassination of OBL to taking out villages but our country does that on a regular basis as well.

I do not know what they feared about bringing the man to trial (and pumping him for info while we were at it), he would have been convicted and probably hanged and that would have been justice rather than assassination.

Or perhaps there really was no way to stop him other than a bullet to the brain and chest, he may have been an extremely tough middle aged man and a physical threat to a whole team of Seals, I suppose that is possible.

contortions that supporters of extra-judicial execution have to twist themselves into would confound even the greatest of the Pharisees (in keeping with the spirit of the OP).

so i guess it evens out somehow.

How in the world can an aethiest dare to say what a Christian should do? I'm afraid he is right, but it just galls me that he should have a right to preach to Christians.I do believe in a lot of Maher's politics but stay out of Christianity. And why the f+++ word? People who find it necessary to slip that word in so many of their diatribes are really vocabulary anemic.

Follow Jesus' words.

If you don't do that, it's pretty difficult to call yourself a Christian.

Sheesh.

actually allows Bill to be more objective in his appraisal.

You simply cannot be conservative, in any way, if you follow Christ's words. He COMMANDED us to take care of the poor by feeding them and sheltering them, to heal the sick, to turn the other cheek. That's the EXACT opposite of repukes. EXACT.

that THEY are the anti-Christ Party.

You are a Christian if you rejoice in revenge, torture and war? Because that does seem rather at variance with the Christian testament, and certainly with the practice of millions of Christians in the United States.

I expect I'll never see you on here ranting on about Christians, since anyone who isn't entirely good can be one, therefore the people you're going on about aren't and you'll have to call them something else.

Gotta love the No True Scotsman reverse dunk.

But Christians could use a small adjustment. Don't ya think? And just a tad bit of added humility?

I never thought I'd agree with Bill Maher on anything relating to religion!

Bill said...he doesn't get to decide who is a Christian and who isn't. He doesn't set the rules for Christianity.

I agree that there are more bad examples of Christianity in the people who profess to be Christians than good examples but Bill Maher isn't the final word on who is and isn't a Christian.

I remember way back when he thought religion was the problem. Like way back yesterday.

How very convenient.

Too bad I missed it. I'm curious as to what you could possibly have said that had to be deleted.

Your imagining to be much more interesting than it was. Just couldn't get it worded right and it didn't really add anything new to the discussion.

nailed it. :thumbsup:

Sid

What is the definition? One who is like Christ? One who attempts to be like Christ? I like that - setting aside dogma, religion and all that. He wasn't as bad as most of us, you know.

I don't like the broad brushes being used here to paint all Christians the same way. Progressive Christians speak out all the time - generally speaking though, they aren't as wealthy as conservative or fundamentalist types. They don't have the cash to get their ads and their sermons on radio and television and such quite as frequently.

Personally, I'm not a fan of any religion, I can't say I believe in a higher power or a life after this one with any certainty. I think it's a possibility, just as I think it's a possibility no such thing exists. I tend to believe all things are possible.

I have no grudge against people for being Christian. I have a grudge against those who use Christianity for despicable things - war, torture, murder, the attempted justification of such, etc. As a student of history - and a living human being of the current age, I've seen and heard it (and read about it) all too often.

I understand why people are angry on both sides. Keep in mind though, that the most critical ones probably don't despise Christians in general. Just the ones that taint and distort the religion into something hideous. Lots of people don't understand that that battle has been being fought in the Church since it's very beginning. Though usually - the good side lost and got tortured and burned at the stake and....

Which is not to say that disbelief or contempt for another person's spiritual belief is something to be praised or admired. Remember the Romans? Ancient history, I know, but it has a tendency to repeat itself and to go to in circles. Very annoying. When it is popular enough or acceptable enough to paint all of such a large group with the same brush, how much further do we need to go until it's acceptable to harm them or permit them to be harmed?

Ignorance goes both ways and it goes sideways, too. It goes all around. If we want others to respect our beliefs (not agree with them or act upon them or be forced to act upon them) then we should, reasonably, do them the same favor.

Basically the whole salvation statement is summed up in John 3:16. For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

So, there is first an 'if'. You have to believe in Jesus to get the salvation. Now it gets fun, because far too many people that call themselves "Christian" think that 'believe' in this sentence means believe he existed. Of course, if this were the case, then Herod, Pilate, Ciaphas, Judas and Satan would all be saved, because in the story, they saw him so would of course believe he actually existed. So that can't really be it.

So believe has to have a deeper meaning. And in the story, it does - believe in what Jesus says to do and do it. Submit. Give your possessions away, heal the sick, feed the hungry, help the distraught and set-upon. Remember that a mustard seed bursts from the pod with no way of controlling where it lands, you should have at least that same faith. Turn the other cheek, love your enemies, do unto others as you would have them do unto you, go forth and preach and heal freely, as the gifts were given to you freely.

Oh yes, and treat the people you consider 'least among you' well, because how you treat them is how you treat Jesus.

Sometimes, being outside of a group allows you to see things that some of the group has stopped noticing. This is where Bill Maher is coming from.

So with the Father the Son, and the Holy Spirit, being one.

If someone believes in The Father, or the Son, Or the Holy Spirit, wouldn't that be the same thing?

Or are they saying they are not the same thing.

If you were to question any aspect of the trinity John Calvin would have burned you alive, others have spent lifetimes exploring the various possible meanings of the trinity and have very diverse opinions.

I used to like studying theology because of this, you would like it because it is quite random.

The most Christ like man I ever met was a Druid, I still ponder what that means and perhaps always shall.

There is a way to explain that, but it has superiority traps in it, so not going to post on that.

I personally think people see the same thing in many different ways.

Proving that anyone can interpret the Holy Babble to mean anything:

I particularly enjoyed listening to one of the back podcasts about God, Guns & the NRA. I am a Christian and understand that the Bible never anywhere says for its followers to disarm...

Jesus told his own followers in Luke 22:38 to sell all they had in order to purchase a weapon if they didnt have a sword for the coming days. Jesus told Peter to put the sword in its place and rebuked Peter’s vigilantism to fight off Jesus arrestors, but not to get rid of the weapon all together.

One of the things that bothers me the most when I run into so-called pacifists is when they try to tell me that Jesus taught pacificism. The Sermon on the Mount teaches the idea in Matthew 5:38-42 of non-retaliation or revenge and is not a repudiation of self-defense...(edit) bla-bla-bla...

http://podcast.gunrights.us/2007/01/27/god-guns-nra-episode-025/

Does anyone here really think that Maher, of all people, would fall prey to the NTS fallacy?

(I wonder if there are some who still believe this was justified...)