You won't find a stronger supporter of medical cannabis here at DU than me. Having said that, ...

... I was just out in Colorado for the national NORML convention. While there, I picked up "West Word", the Denver free weekly. There were probably four pages of ads for medical marijuana dispensaries in that magazine, most of which were understated and appropriate. However, there was also at least one half-page, full-color ad with a butt-naked woman touting the "flavor of the week" and several ads promoting free 1/8ths and edibles for new customers. I also heard from a well-respected and courageous Colorado mmj dispensary owner on a panel at the NORML convention who complained about dispensaries with billboard-sized skunks over their front doors and young women out front promoting our "medicine" with their jiggling, barely covered titties.

The same thing is happening in Montana and California (and perhaps elsewhere also). This kind of crude "boobs and buds" foolishness is greatly undermining the medical marijuana movement and playing directly into the hands of jack-booted "drug worriers" and their gun-toting, home invading, holier-than-thou church lady colleagues. This kind of vulgarity is no more appropriate for expanding access to medical cannabis than when a so-called leader in the marijuana legalization movement gifted an intern last year with too much alcohol at an office party so he could date-rape her later in the evening. (That worthless SOB still leads an organization whose initials could just as well stand for "Misogyny Perpetuation Project".)

Again, I want medical marijuana available to anyone and everyone who needs it, and I want it yesterday. I also want taxed, regulated and safe recreational cannabis available to any responsible adult who wants to use it instead of alcohol for relaxation or relief. (And I want it available to both groups at around $60/ounce, not $400-$600/ounce.)

Butt-naked women and free eighths are not the way to that future.

Science, common sense and compassion (and a President who stands by his word to back off prosecuting participants in lawfully established medical marijuana programs) is.

I hope Montana is able to protect and maintain its medical marijuana program which was established with support from over 60% of the electorate there. I also hope that Delaware (the 16th state to approve access to medical cannabis for their citizens) can get their program up and running soon, and that 34 other states will follow suit sooner than later.

In the process, I hope we'll send the sexist and insensitive profiteers back to the bathroom with their well-worn copies of Penthouse, where they belong.

Cannabis is a medicine, an herb and a safer social lubricant than alcohol.

Misogyny is a social disease.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Welcome to DU. Try to focus.

Understated and slightly ironic. I like it. :D

just open any random magazine or turn on your TV

As I said, misogyny is a social disease.

Not limited to medicine, either.

This stuff was rampant 20 years ago when I threw out my television, I would be hard pressed to believe it has gotten any better since.

Even ads for Viagra and other erection-inflating "medicines" use happy, smiling (fully-clothed) couples in their ads.

I'm glad to hear you threw out your TV too. Best place for the boob-tube is in the landfill or as a food trough in the pig sty.

I'd like to see if they are qualitatively different from any other advertising. Everything is so sexually explicit these days I am having trouble imagining something worse.

You might want to check it out.

As for me, I am heading to my Garden to plant sweet corn, naked in the rain. (Fortunately, I live deep enough in the woods not to offend anyone by that action or to reveal my own shortcomings.)

So I need a hand here.

In the meantime I did come across this, LOL:

http://grupthinkpro.s3.amazonaws.com/grupthinklived9910cd574ef4c10cd47d159b93d041d

http://www.westword.com/adIndex/subcategory/miscellaneous-58/

Sorry I can't lend you a hand. Mine are getting ready to get dirty (really dirty) in my Garden.

Says you, LOL. I've learned a lot of useful stuff from watching TV. It's as good or bad as what you watch.

When a friend tried to hook one up for me last year after my hip replacement, I noted that the "new" stations available due to the digital transformation were ALL religious stations. It was then that I knew that John Prine was right years ago, and that I had already done almost everything he recommended in this song. No need to backtrack now.

Having said that, I hope you continue to learn lots of "great stuff" watching TV.

Spanish Pipedream (John Prine)

She was a level-headed dancer on the road to alcohol
And I was just a soldier on my way to Montreal
Well she pressed her chest against me
About the time the juke box broke
Yeah, she gave me a peck on the back of the neck
And these are the words she spoke

Chorus:
Blow up your TV throw away your paper
Go to the country, build you a home
Plant a little garden, eat a lot of peaches
Try an find Jesus on your own

Well, I sat there at the table and I acted real naive
For I knew that topless lady had something up her sleeve
Well, she danced around the bar room and she did the hoochy-coo
Yeah she sang her song all night long, tellin' me what to do

Repeat chorus:

Well, I was young and hungry and about to leave that place
When just as I was leavin', well she looked me in the face
I said "You must know the answer."
"She said, "No but I'll give it a try."
And to this very day we've been livin' our way
And here is the reason why

We blew up our TV threw away our paper
Went to the country, built us a home
Had a lot of children, fed 'em on peaches
They all found Jesus on their own.

Kris Kristofferson opened up. John is not quite his old self since getting cancer a few years back, but it was a fantastic show nonetheless. It was almost a pilgrimage for me. John Prine is an unsurpassed American treasure.

Learned that from a friend of a friend who was the provider. Of course, anyone who wrote "Illegal Smiles" should never have suffered for a second from lack of that Goddess-given relief.

BTW, when I was a student at Vanderbilt in the late 60s, Kristofferson sang at the freshman dorm "coffee house" for $25 and all the uneaten doughnuts he could take home with him at the end of the night. Music City has always been magical that way.

Even alcohol doesn't get advertised with butt-naked models.

However, as a recovering alcoholic who used to show his ass (both literally and figuratively) whenever I was in my cups, showing some bald-headed, butt-naked men with fleshy keggers lapping over where their belts should be would be truth in advertising.

Bill Hicks did a piece on that very thing. I'm not saying what they did is right but sex sells anything. And there are few things than a naked woman that say, "here, have some medical marijuana!"

... an appointment for your first round of chemotherapy.

but anywhere they can get away with it, they will, because sex and sexual attraction work better than reality to sell a product. The fact that that product has a very beneficial medical effect has no bearing on how marketing will market. When the market for selling things using naked women dries up, then it won't be used anymore and that will be grand.

Implementing state regs about appropriate advertisement is one. In fact, in states like New Mexico -- for all their other problems with their mmj program -- using sex to sell mmj is not one of them.

Another solution is to form a mmj trade association that develops and implements its own self-governing regs about appropriate advertisements.

Right now in Colorado, genuinely ill patients (particularly older ones) are seeking out more respectable providers and avoiding the "boobs and buds" jokesters. However, the latter are tainting the playing field for the rest.

I did understand that we agree on this. My response was just an effort to illustrate the differences between real medical need and the "wink, wink, nudge, nudge" gamesmanship that is going on now.

To be clear, I am happy for any and every responsible adult to be able to access legal cannabis, even if their "affliction" is cannabis affinity. Until that day, we need to be more sensitive and understanding of the political climate that still exists in many states on this issue, states that are also inhabited by seriously ill folks who would benefit from access to safe, effective, reliable and inexpensive cannabis. We definitely have a way to go to get there and butt-naked (or "buck-naked") models won't get us there.

If you have a link to the Bill Hicks piece, I've love to read it. Thanks.

but I'll make a point of looking for them now :hippie:

I will also pick up a free paper similar to West Word and cruise the adds but from my experience we are just not seeing that here.

Thanks for informing me about one more good thing about how your program is unfolding. If we are serious, responsible and sensitive in how we position medical cannabis with the general public, we can expand access to the millions of Americans who need it.

I think the salaciousness I saw in Colorado is the exception. It should never become the rule, or mmj will go back in the closet (where most misogynists belong).

Everyone I know who has their card is using it for recreational purposes. I quit smoking over a decade ago (with only 3 or 4 minor regressions in that time) and they all tell me I should go get my card too.

I don't see any of the exploitation that you described in Colorado (a state I lived most of my 20s and early 30s in) but I do think that it is being exploited as a way around the laws against the recreational use of marijuana.

Believe you me.

However, I agree with you. It would be nice to allow for both medicinal use and responsible recreational use so as not to constantly intertwine the two. In either case, the ad I saw in Colorado would be inappropriate, IMHO.

meanwhile, we'll have to settle for "parka-covered titties"

:rofl:

One of our biggest battles is fighting the seemingly endless stereotypes associated with cannabis, then in comes these yahoos. Slowly, subtly, but surely this nation's attitude toward cannabis is changing. This "Woo-hoo, let's party with the pot and the nekkid girls" mentality just scares people away and confirms the worst stereotypes. I hate frat boy mentality.

that this frat boy mentality might be being "encouraged" by those whose interests are threatened by the medical mj movement. Just who would benefit from tarring the image of "free" medicine and an alternative recreational adjustment?

I agree with the op that this kind of adv. is a detriment to the movement and ultimately plays to the worst fears of those who are wary of legalization, so you gotta ask: why would these yahoos be shitting their own future?

After all, who is more tasteless than the so-called "family values" bunch!

What's wrong with free 8ths? It seems like an appropriate sample.

If anyone wants to give me a free eighth, or a Garden-loving woman wants to come help me plant sweet corn naked in the rain, that would be fine with me. But neither of those actions are even remotely associated with returning cannabis to the medical pharmacopoeia or of continuing to change the minds of voters and politicians on this issue.

Even the most cannabis-friendly candidate for Denver mayor (Doug Linkhart -- what a great name) criticized the same issues of inappropriate mmj marketing that I mentioned in this OP in a panel of six Denver mayoral candidates at the NORML convention moderated by Montel Williams. (All six supported medical marijuana and several of them spoke in support of legalization of recreational cannabis, praise be the Goddess.)

to put medical marijuana & dispensaries in a bad light? A coordinated make-it-appear-seedy attack to turn people against it. Porn, drugs & crime type situation?

What can, if anything, be done about it?

Enjoy your garden. Sweet corn sounds good.

:hi:

... that it was the seedier elements of their fledgling industry that were guilty of this behavior.

One owner (a middle-aged female who owns a mmj dispensary in full compliance with the law) said that some of the "boobs and buds" promoters in her neighborhood had made no effort to comply with the new regulations put in place by the Colorado Department of Revenue and were just going to keep on selling pot at inflated prices until the government shut them down. That is no good for any of us. When these folks get shut down, sympathetic mmj supporters may end up crying "foul" when everyone -- including the mmj movement itself -- will be better off without them.

My guess is that they'll just go back to selling dime bags (for $40) in the junior high playgrounds where they were before mmj became legal in Colorado.

I expressed essentially the same point of view once on DU.

Except it was about gay rights and parades.

It didn't go over well.

Not at all.

The alphabet soup spy agencies and the DEA in the USA is still run by the bush drug cartel, and they still want to keep marijuana illegal, because that's how they make so much of their money, both in gun running and in drug profits.

Until the "war on drugs" for the profit of this group is STOPPED, we'll still be subject to people trying to derail the legalization of medical marijuana. And just think....they still want to run Jeb for president someday. That's why KKKarl Rove is still so powerful in the party. He's a bush cartel kingpin.

a war criminal and sociopath and should not be a free man! IMO. However Mr. Obama is just as guilty as scrub when it comes to Cannabis and the continuation of the evil drug wars. :smoke:

Good luck with your garden! Nothing like it! :hi:

I had a killing frost last week, but was able to get everything covered so I didn't lose anything. Still have straw and paper sacks handy if they're needed again (though my tomatoes are almost too tall to cover again.)

Today, I'll plant small decorative gourds, butternut squash and sugar pumpkins. Then, to thaw out (since it is not only rainy but COLD here today), I'll fire up the sauna for a long sweat.

Ah yes. We country boys will survive.

I am so glad to hear you got things covered in time. It really is frustrating, even slightly painful, when you lose food.

I lost over 10/12ths of a 12x12 patch a couple of years ago; woodchucks.:grr: I was gone maybe an hour and when I returned the freaking woodchucks in residence must have invited a few dozen relatives in to dine and they cleaned their plates. Icamethisclose to getting a BB-gun that day! I always plant extra for critters around the edge and they cheated.

Best of luck with the garden, Bernie! Any good suggestions to fight off the chucks?

I once asked a neighbor with a great garden and he said, "I shoot 'em." I can't do that, I brake for butterflies, turtles, frogs and other critters. hell, I even brake for republicants, when I have to.

I tried mothballs; they dragged every box I put out down their holes! Maybe mothballs are like crack to woodchucks...

I have been fortunate to own a succession of German Shepards who are easily trainable to guard the Garden and to know the difference between planted rows and walking paths. My last one (Thunder, a dog I rescued from eight years on a chain) was one of the best. He even took offense at birds landing on my trellis wire.

Short of a good dog, urine and stinky deodorant soap might help.

run em out of business.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=6889020

The Tennessee Safe Access to Medical Cannabis Act (which would have created the most tightly controlled AND most patient-friendly mmj program in the country) passed through ALL of our TN General Assembly House committeess last year, including receiving a 20-4 vote in our House Health and Human Resources committee. However, that was before TN Rethugs stole another 14 seats in our House and took control of it. This year, we couldn't get the time of day (as if the Rethug Mr. Jones' really know what time it is anyway.)

Did you pick up their magazine with a "Playboy-type" foldout of a big, purple bud? :-)

is the main paper for advertising massage parlors, strip clubs, concerts, and now medical marijuana dispensaries. The Denver Post has a MMJ page, but of course the Post is more expensive and there are more restrictive guidelines....so, that leaves the free paper, Westword.

I wish the ads were more professional - but because of the fierce competition, these ads have brought the prices way down since the early days of this "budding" industry.

then we are going to have to represent ourselves as responsible users. This is the theme of what I wrote to my representative, that I have worked and lived with professional, responsible and sensible marijuana users all of my adult life, and am speaking out for us. For the most part, we are invisible in society, not only because of the laws, but because we do not want this to interfere with relationships.

I also wrote that laws to legalize need to negotiate what acceptable levels of cannabis should be allowed legally, and perhaps which professions should not accept this drug (no one wants their pilot or brain surgeon stoned, for example) Also technology could be developed to distinguish someone just smoked at a party yesterday from someone who just smoked in the last hour (since most psychoactive components disperse in an hour or two).

The pot counterculture is a part of our society and has thrived and become almost a cartoon caricature of itself because of prohibition. Recreational use is fun and would be a part of legalization, yet there has to be a discussion about what assurances users can offer to acknowledge that they will be sensible. I think a vital part of the discussion is how countercultures are created by prohibition, not only the drug cartels thrive, but that usage of this herb is driven into the shadows and can be associated with destructive behaviors. Drug cartels deal in arms and in flesh peddling too--and if we are to break them up, we have to deny them their profits one thing at a time. Lets start with drugs and work from there.

Marijuana users are very diverse, and I think that the young people should not be the only face of legalization. I am not dissing young people, I was there, thought Cheech and Chong were funny in their day, yet I realize as I have gotten older that the vision of legalized cannabis has to be workable.

Makes me paranoid.

nt

... conservative, so be it.

In my experience, many progressives are also conservative, if conservative means conserving our planet, our resources, our Constitution and our self respect.

just like being allergic to nicotine, not every herb is for everyone.

As for why a "girl" would be disdainful of an OP calling for more respect for both women and medical marijuana, well ... I don't know what to do about that (or what to think).

Thanks for sharing anyway. Cheer up.

You were in Denver and didn't contact me? *pouts*

Between the excellent panel discussions at the NORML convention and their hospitality suite, I barely left the hotel. Plus I slept on the couch of friends out in Idaho Springs who gifted me with a different medical strain every morning. Not a bad way to enjoy the Mile High city, though it would have been very nice to meet you while I was there.

Next time. I promise.

You're forgiven this time. And it's not like we don't have some kind of cannabis convention happening every other month out here, so I'm sure you will be back. Maybe I'll have my license by then and can cook you up a special dinner flavored with tangerine or chocolate bud. :hi:

I would love to be part of a state program that is working to do it right, and that is also setting the framework for eventual legalization. In general, it appears that Colorado prefers to hire from in-state, but maybe they'll make an exception for a old dual graduate-degreed marijuana martyr.

These days, I am cheap AND I can be had.

You're on for dinner -- looking forward to it.

:bounce:

Thanks for saying this. I'm a big medical marijuana supporter and I agree with you on this.

In addition the MM Community needs to stop using terminology more related to recreational use.

http://ohhburn.com/2010/06/29/does-gods-pussy-really-exist-the-cannabis-cup-controversy/

"Father’s day weekend, High Times magazine held the completely sold out First Annual High Times Medical Cannabis Cup in San Francisco. Despite long lines and crazy congestion the event was a smashing success and culminated on Sunday with the crowning of the best pot in the land .... And, to everyone’s surprise…it was a strain called 'God’s Pussy' that landed the top honors! Many scoffed at the name, but the mainstream press reported on it ... and for a day or two the best herbal remedy in the land came in the form of 'God’s Pussy'.

"But, within a few days of the glorious event, High Times had officially changed the name of the winning strain to Vortex.... 'I think growers should be a bit more creative with their names,' Executive Editor for High Times magazine told Stuff Stoners Like. 'Strain names like 'Green Crack' or 'God’s Pussy' are offensive. As a creative community, I think we can do better.'....

“When they announced the winner of the Sativa as Jack Grean’s 'God’s Pussy', the female announcer struggled with the offensive name but sure enough the world now knows what a mockery this event was to the Medical Movement, women, and anyone who believes in a higher power."

Enough said. Actualy, more than enough said.

http://www.westcoastleaf.com/

http://www.dailybuds.com/page/view/kush_magazine

And the News and Review from Sacramento http://www.newsreview.com/sacramento/home

a statement. For example "I really do like your new hairstyle, but..."

I guess I could shorten the OP to say " ... but it does not serve or advance the cause of medical cannabis to advertise it in misogynistic ways." It doesn't change the meaning of my OP in the slightest.

Again, if I've missed your point, please elaborate.

One is simply longer than the other.

More words in a statement does not necessarily a better statement make.

If so, please point it out. Please.

What I said (and continue to say) is that misogynistic advertising hurts our efforts to expand and protect access to medical cannabis, something that I am working very hard to promote here in Tennessee and across the nation. I also pointed out that Colorado mmj dispensary owners and very pro-pot politicians out there share my concerns.

If you are getting some message other than that from this thread, you might want to make sure that aliens are not communicating with you through your dental fillings. Or you might want to share what you've been smoking. Or smoke less of it.

same as "always."

If nothing in my OP or my responses on this thread negates my support for medical cannabis, then nothing here supports your comment or justifies the need for it. Why did you post your original comment and continue with this sub-thread?

What is your point?

The dissonance of some people is astounding.

If you've followed the debate in Montana that led to their legislature severely restricting that state's medical cannabis program in the last month, one of the most persistent complaints had to do with how a small handful of mmj dispensaries up there were advertising their wares in similar inappropriate ways.

Why shoot our own selves in the foot when we are just beginning to walk?

and that republican legislators outnumber the democrats by almost a 3-1 margin. Chances are that if Jesus came back and argued for medical marijuana in that state, in the most reasonable and persuasive manner, it wouldn't sway the repubs one iota.

Also, many bedrock conservatives, notably Ron Paul and his followers, the Tenth Amendment Center and even SC(r)OTUS Judge Clarence Thomas, have come out in support of medical marijuana at one time or another. Likewise, former NM Governor Gary Johnson, hardly a liberal, is a strong mmj supporter. Anyone who supports states' rights and keeping the government out of our bedrooms and bloodstreams likely supports mmj (or should).

My guess is that if they have to run another referendum in Montana to overturn that legislature's recent efforts to roll back their program, it would pass also. However, it would help if some of the juvenile excesses discussed in this OP would be damped down in the Big Sky state.

I don't see the anti-mmj efforts of Republicans to be conservative as much as they are pro-Big Pharma. Sadly on that score, too many leaders on both sides of the aisle are in the back pockets of the real pill-pushers.

We know that the personna of republican leadership is ultra conservative, while the real truth is that they are corporate shills, with no real conscience. If the pharmaceutical companies held all of the legal rights to produce and distribute grass, then all fifty states would have medical marijuana programs.

What I find interesting is how a state can put a measure on the ballot in a referendum, but how a state legislature can reverse the results.

in Montana, not once did I read anything about butt naked women being used as an argument against it by opposition politicians. As I said earlier, Jesus Christ himself couldn't sway the corporate shills who pass for politicians these days.

... at the NORML convention who specializes in MIPs (marijuana-infused products). Again, she said that aggressively inappropriate and sexist promotion strategies were being implemented by only a few mmj dispensaries in Montana, but that they were making it hard for everyone. Her examples had to do mainly with inappropriate signage and bikini-clad, sign-twirling, attention-getting "health professionals" standing outside mmj dispensaries and hawking their wares to bypassers. (Sounds more like Times Square than a medical clinic.)

In addition, if you visit the NORML web-site, you should be able to find (in their news archive) several articles which reference the discussion of inappropriate, aggressive and sexist advertising efforts in Montana being referenced multiple times in their recent legislative debate.

How is that supposed to work exactly?

... and my response #16 within the thread.

In the meantime, I would recommend that you refrain from running around with sharp pointy objects in your hands.

Misogyny and its defenders are rampant around here. "I'm a great big progressive, but don't take away my right to objectify women by calling me on it!"

nt

Given your choice of words, that whole stuff about "objectifying" tells me more about you, than it does about me (since you don't know me)... projection being what it is.

"Misogyny defender" why because I am not offended by a female breast? They could use a naked man with a bud of MJ hanging off his testicles for all I care. Here is a newsflash, some of us are not threatened by nudity, or that the only purpose of the human body is for sexual purposes only. What a concept, eh? Just keep using the term "misogyny" as a fallacy shield to rush to a victim status when you don't have an actual argument. Keep doing so until the term becomes irrelevant, some of you have done a "wonderful" job at that. Congratulations in trivializing the victims of actual misogyny!

Oh, the delicious irony is compounded since the OP of this thread starts with the classical American preface of "They're as pro-XYZ as they come...." but either XYZ approach must be carried out to cater to their particular perspective, or they trash the XYZ efforts since they are so "pro-XYZ" apparently.

And misogyny... not all nudity is misogyny, and not all misogyny shows itself in the form of nudity.

When you have women objectified in an ad, that is mysogyny.

I take you had nothing to address my post with.

I simply thought that it was a bit ironic, given your track record of appeals for your right to use MJ (which I support BTW), for you try to fence and limit the rights of other people who may not share your moral views, medical needs, or old age.

So what if some people like seeing a female breast or a male dong and smoke a joint? Live and let live, otherwise you're projecting your own particular morality on others, in the same manner others do when they prevent you from accessing a plant that helps your situation.

Have a wonderful day.

Ignore.

You make an important point. A solution would be to ban advertising. Here in Canada, that seems the obvious solution but maybe not as easy in 'FreeMarket Heaven'.

WE don't allow advertising from lawyers, pharmaceutical companies, or doctors. They all seem to be surviving as industries. None-the-less, your point is well taken. Too bad so many around here miss the points about advertising and medicine and the implicit misogyny, to proudly declare their own liberal attitudes toward "nudity".

They (indy disp's.) should form corporate associations that set standards in all areas of the industry.

Good luck to you and all you do.

.

There are several of these associations being formed in a few of the mmj states, including Colorado. That, plus rigorous enforcement of their dispensary regulations in the near future (since those regs have just recently been released) may reduce or eliminate this problem in short order.

The more reputable mmj dispensaries in California also seem to be moving toward more appropriate self-regulation and modeling appropriate and ethical behavior. Both the Berkeley Patients Group and Harborside in Oakland come to mind as excellent role-models on many levels.

this person not once insulted you, but called you out in respectful and intellectual terms.

you damage your own argument with how you phrase and construct your argument.

you are trying, im imho failing, to conjoin two separate issues.

first, I agree that medical MJ should be dealt with in a sobre manner, and that clinics should not be advertised as though some new speak easy.

Second there is objectification and there is misogyny, choose one, as they are not synonymous terms.

While I agree that using sex to sell MMJ is self defeating, conflating that with misogyny is illogical to me.

I have no doubt that model was well informed and wll paid for her image, and use of her image in such a way.

aere you saying women don't have the right to make a living, in THIS economy, any way they choose?

So far no one has been able to find the offensive ad, and I admit to being skeptical that it exists as you remember it.

Assuming it does, you need to be clear, which you are not.

however, it would seem, from what I gather from your OP, and your half-hearted defenses, is that we agree on two of 3 points.
1 - MMJ should not be advertised as such
2 - using sex to sell said MMJ is rather self defeating
3- we disagree on where the misogyny is.
you see it simply as a racy ad, I see it as your desire to disallow women to make money any way they see fit.

see equality and freedom cut both ways. While you have the right to do anything a man can do, you also have the right not to do it.

that doesn't mean that sexism or the use of an attractive woman to sell a product or service will ever go away, just because there is equality.

freedom means having the right to CHOOSE to sell yourself or not.
she choose to, you do not.
you are both free, even though you disagree on the points.

one last point, that I know will be lost, but it needs to be made.

just because I enjoy looking at the female figure, does not mean I hate women (the actual meaning of misogyny) nor does it mean I wish to enslave the female population or restrict your rights in any way. I am not a sexist.

I like women.
I also like men.

make of that what you will as i'm sure you shall.
merry part.

Other than that, since this thread has attracted several half-assed "proper English" net nannies (that does seem to be the latest deflection tool du jour for posters who may live under bridges), let me just suggest to all y'all:

Spell-check can be your friend. Failing that, having your paymaster edit your posts ahead of time can make you look a bit more literate than this post.

I hope that was respectful enough for you. If not, we can always ignore each other. Among many things, that tool here at DU is very useful for dealing with deflecting and distracting tools.

*offers post* if you are going to criticize my spelling point it out, as I use the spell checker built into firefox, which is rather accurate.
second, you are ..... never mind.

you're going to say what hurtful things you're going to say because you have your issues, whatever they are, and whatever the core they may be.

merry part, may the goddess bless you, because I certainly can't.

I could care less how women choose to make their livings. That was not, and is not, the topic of this OP. I am concerned that using nude models and other inappropriate sexisms (see "God's Pussy" elsewhere in this thread) do nothing but hurt our efforts to expand access to medical cannabis and delay the day when responsible adults can use cannabis for non-medical purposes. Again, I think we agree on that. (I think.)

Other than that, you might want to see if your Foxfire "spell check" function works, or whether it also has a grammar check. Some of what you said was just unintelligible to me. Your attempt at implanting a red herring in this thread was not (since you're the fifth to attempt that here).

Is that sincere enough for you?

and i don't mind kicking the thread.
as we do in fact agree on the important parts.

what we disagree are on details, which is fine.
it makes things more interesting when a discussion can be had on details, even as we agree to disagree, but please lets refrain from being disagreeable.

important bits - should MMJ locations advertise and try to sex things up? no - agreed point
is the use of naked women conducive to furthering MMJ as legitimate medicine? no - agreed point

the rest is just details.
take care.

As you may know, something else we agree on is the message contained in your avatar. There's only one thing that will keep this country intact and on-track -- free, fair and verifiable elections.

Have a great day. Again, thanks.

Stay classy

Frankly, I wish more trolls WERE homeless. It might help expand their world-view a bit.

A whole lot of people DO find the naked human body offensive. It might be religion based, it might be how they were raised..whatever. They tend to be older and/or conservative, and they vote in droves. Call it projecting their morality or whatever you want, but it still exists, and it's not going to go away anytime soon. And they vote in droves.

These should be serious, professional businesses where medical marijuana is sold, and I really think the emphasis should be on the medical aspect, not a sexual aspect. There should be nothing sexual about it at all. Is this medical help for people in pain? Or is it a strip club? I don't see what jiggling boobs or flapping dongs has to do with medicine. I think if one needs to resort to T&A to sell product...they have no confidence in their product. It's tawdry. It's inappropriate and unprofessional.

If someone wants T&A with their medical marijuana..all they got to do when they get home is light up and read a naughty magazine.

I do not find the human body offensive. I make part of my living as an artist, I've had lots of life drawing classes. I just do not see the need to use naked bits to sell a product or service, unless that is your product or service.

My sister and nephew both use medical marijuana, my sister for compressed discs in her neck and back, and my nephew for terminal cancer. At the shop they go to, first time customers are given a free gram of pot.

I expect that medical marijuana is helping both of them in ways that other medicines cannot. Just wish it were available to all the sisters and nephews (brothers and nieces, parents and friends) out there who need it.

Maybe if we respect the plant and the truly sick people that it can help, that will happen.

and you see this stuff everywhere. I cant tell you how many clubs I have been to that hire attractive female bud-tenders just to get people to come back. You also see a lot of risque ads in the MMJ journals and such.

In fact, a club I go to, had a little event a few weeks ago where the bud-tenders wore their bathing suits to work and gave out free food and sort of had a little mini party going on all day. The point is that these clubs will do anything to get someone to try their place even if it means objectifying their employees.

I'm planning on taking a trip to California with my wife.

Maybe some Californicators here at DU can give you a more definitive answer.

K&R

While this may fuel any argument against it's use, it's not something that we SHOULD be taking seriously.

People who would use this as ammunition to prevent it's legalization are clearly missing the bigger picture. We shouldn't bend to these people's desires, because without this sort of thing, they'd find another reason to keep it illegal.

We can't attempt to get rid of any reason that they might find to keep it illegal. We'll never reach the bottom of that list. They will always find other reasons. At the end of the day, we have to simply do what we are doing. Pushing for it to get through and showing proof that it works in medicinal cases.

Some of the places that sell coffee around my house have half-naked women selling the drinks. Beer ads have "hot women" selling the alcohol. Both, it could be argued, are more damaging than marijuana.

That is probably not the best message for a movement. At this time, the message is calling the product "medicine" and the movement has made great progress.

If we, er, the movement has a message that sounds like "we're going to get your kids messed up", the public is going to turn against "the movement".

Let's not sell "Joe Camel".

but you will see this sexist approach of selling products ranging from beer commercials to Hardee's Turkey sandwich on television with a nice close up shot of Ms. Turkey's ass, as she struts eating the sandwich because Ms. Turkey and the sandwich are both made from Turkey.

Although I haven't seen specifically what you're referring to, I do hope they have the good sense of elevating their advertisements but that holds true for an entire plethora of products seen daily on T.V.

They say it's done because "sex sells" but I have to wonder in this regard what came first the chicken or the egg, in other words are the people's natural desires being magnified by mass brainwashing?

Thanks for the thread, Fly by night.

... and they seem to be patronized by more gravely ill 20-year-olds than you could ever imagine!

:evilgrin:

And I absolutely support the legalization of marijuana.

Another thing that's always bothered me is the fact that white, middle-class recreational pot smokers have become the face of the drug legalization movement, when the people who are most likely to have their lives ruined by criminalization are poor and/or racialized people, usually users of harder drugs.

In all the social movements we participate in, we must check our privilege.

Nice post!

And congrats to my state Delaware. In the matter of 2 weeks we passed civil unions and now medicinal marijuana.

Plus our state has a nice budget surplus.

All done with democrats who run both congress, the governor house and most statewide offices!

All y'all ought to invite VP Biden back home to encourage him to get the USDOJ back on track re: leaving lawfully established state medical cannabis programs alone. My guess is that your strong state action may be very influential with him. (At least, I hope.)

I'm not sure if there is a way to avoid that kind of advertising. Alcohol commercials use it. Cigarette ads aren't on TV but in magazines you'll sometimes see a man holding a cigarette and a woman checking him out. It's not even drugs that have this kind of advertising, I've seen soda ads, breath mint ads, Carl's Jr, all kind of ads with this kind of advertising.

From a medical standpoint, I agree they should be professional but if it is legal, it simply is going to happen unless we legislate some kind of ban with that advertising but that isn't going to happen.

IMO, those that would be against legal cannabis because of the advertising would be hypocrites unless they are also against breath mints.

people who want to legalize cannabis for recreational use are using the medical issue as a way to bypass current law.

the easiest thing, it would seem to me, is to follow a model like The Netherlands and have coffee houses (and teatsie bars, I suppose, for those so inclined) for recreational users and have pharmacies dispense medical marijuana.

In both cases the growers should have to pass inspections and have their product labeled for percentages of cannabinoid content.

I don't care if anyone wants to go to a boob bar - but that's not where I would go and not advertising that would appeal to me if I were looking for a dispensary.

The problem with this, beyond the attempt to conflate two issues regarding cannabis, is that females are more likely than males to oppose decriminalization or legalization. Females who are parents are more likely than male parents to be opposed.

So, yeah, the issue really is that the marketing is for males and, yeah, sex sells - but to create an effective medical marijuana educational environment, cannabis that is in any way associated with health care should not associate with groups like the ones who placed ads.

the conference should use some smarts about these things and chose not to accept advertising from outfits that undercut the seriousness of this issue.

And I agree that, whether the cannabis is sold for medicine or for recreation, it should be produced and processed under similar standards of safety, efficacy and purity. Time to put the moldy dirt-weed in the compost pile where it belongs.

Thanks kindly for making them.

damn near 8 pages of MMJ ads.

Same thing's happening now, with the gradual ending of the second prohibition. Human nature hasn't changed any since then.

BTW, by any chance did we meet briefly at the end of the NORML convention? Do you have a forthcoming book on mmj addressing cancer and Alzheimer's? If so, I hope you will promote it here when it is available.

I live in the bay area, and I have to work and couldn't afford the travel.

No way.

If one has 200lb in caves in one's backyard (figuratively speaking, of course) and one can move every bit of it for $5K/lb, then why in the world would one move it at $500/lb?

Not me, that's for sure.

Sonoman

PS Keep up the good work, Fbn, just don't hold your breath on $60 retail.
S

Think it was a Humboldt grower, but I'm not sure. As you know, the current inflated prices are a vestige of the illegal marketplace, not related in any way to the cost of production. Having grown myself since 1971, I know of what I speak in that regard.

However, congrats to whoever has 200 lb of good bud in a cave somewhere (hypothetically speaking, of course.) Since the drug worriers buzz my house at least weekly (in growing season and out) these days, I am very envious.

You might also check out the link in post #26 for the logic behind that $60/ounce figure here in Tennessee. Cannabis has been our leading illegal agricultural commodity for four decades. At $500/pound grown legally AND if we serve only 15% of our projected eligible mmj patients, cannabis would become our second leading legal agricultural commodity within five years. If we legalized it for recreational use, the income potential would be staggering for farmers, processors, distributors AND the state; since we intend to return 20% of every sale to the state to fund the mmj program, with all excess going to indigent health care and substance abuse treatment. Again, you might enjoy the link in post #26.

Well said Bernie.

You are absolutely right. :thumbsup:

Butt naked is misunderstanding the reference. It refers to tanned buckskin, which no longer has fur. Look it up.

Also, a butt can't be and adjective describing complete nakedness unless it's made completely naked first. Then you'd have to say something like, "bare-butt naked," or "naked-butt naked." But why do that if butts generally aren't the most naked part of the body?

To the subject: no, I don't think a naked woman = misogyny, even for commercial purposes, and I don't think it compares to date rape, either. It does invite other comparisons, though, that might be more accurate.

But the harm here is not what it actually is, it's what people at large think or feel about it.

As for people selling marijuana this way, the medical marijuana movement does attract a certain cynicism, even among its supporters. Unfortunately, I don't think that's going to change. As NORML showed in the '70s when so many states had it decriminalized, the pro-marijuana camp is sometimes its own worst enemies.

Of "buck naked." And it's not entirely meaningless, if what you're trying to convey is that someone's derriere is largely uncovered.

On the issue at hand, I don't think anyone but the most naive would think that the medical marijuana movement can be unlinked from the recreational marijuana movement. It's pretty clear that many medical marijuana proponents consider the medical marijuana movement a path toward legalization for recreational purposes.

And that's OK with me, but as recreational legalization grows more likely, tacky commercialism is bound to increase.

I agree with everything you say on-topic.

However, "butt naked" still grates on me. You're right it's not totally devoid of meaning in that you could still understand what he's saying (Could you if you hadn't heard "buck naked" you're whole life?), but it misses the bull's eye at point-blank range.

If you're conveying that somebody's butt is naked, we already have the term "bare butt." Moreover, I don't think he was objecting because just her butt was naked. He was objecting to her general nudity. "Butt naked" then is just inaccurate as well.

I'll agree, the reference to buckskin is dated- - how many of us do tanning now? But substituting "butt," by accident, doesn't update the term. It doesn't help when you correct the cliche by breaking it totally. I'll say it: it sounds stupid. Even though it's pro-marijuana, it sounds like one of Archie Bunker's mis-pronouncements. One thing you don't want to do complaining is sound stupid about it.

- 2 for spelling and grammatical slip-shodness.

- 98 for complete and utter irrelevance.

See my other comment below. Hope you can find something else useful to do with your day ... and your life. Really.

If I misspell "you're" for "your," (a bad habit that I'm trying to break) you still know what I'm saying. I honestly didn't know what the hell you described. I made a proofreading error. You didn't know what the hell you were saying.

No, that's not being nanny, but now you're being a complete asshole about it. Don't act like I stuck your balls when I point out a minor error in language anybody could make, one that shouldn't deflate your pride. I know it stings to be told you're not perfect in some small way, but don't cover your error with stupid excuses about the deer in Tennessee, and then attack me when that doesn't work. Perhaps the maturity of that response means I shouldn't listen to anything you have to say, and perhaps others might draw that conclusion, too?

Going by your next message, you really wouldn't get any complaints or corrections if they concluded it's better not to deal with you.

and its based on the similar sound of the mistaken words.

the one that brings out the grammar nazi in me is: making 2 things "jive" versus "jibe".

also: "flesh out" and "flush out", which are both accurate, but not equivalent.

irregardless, multiple Kudos to both of you! ;)

Of course, you know that since I explained it.

Regardless, I really do appreciate you folks (and y'all know who y'all are) continuing to kick this thread, albeit for trivial and completely irrelevant reasons. Have at it.

Y'all might want to check out my punctuation also. I'll bet I used a semi-colon somewhere when a comma would have sufficed. How about my over-use of parentheses? That certainly deserves at least a few more posts. Come on now, I'm sure you unemployed English majors can find more fault with this OP that is completely unrelated to its content.

Get cracking. I dare ya'.

In my Tennessee deep hollow home, all the bucks are naked (and the does and fawns are too.)

"Buck naked" means as nude as you could get without going skeletal. The term comes from tanned buckskins, for which the fur had been chemically removed, not live bucks, who in fact, have a lot of fur to lose before they're naked. I know, how many people do tanning these days, or actually wear buckskin?

Nevertheless, you don't want a term that can be so easily mistaken for such a common adage that has a related, but totally different meaning. From what you said, I thought she was full frontal, but you were objecting to her butt being naked, meaning, maybe, you find "breast naked" okay. So, I knew only in the most general terms what you described, and misunderstood your objection because you used the term "butt naked."

I think I'll stand by my OP, the words I used and how I used them, 'k?

I'm satisfied if everyone here but you understood me or, failing that, that everyone here but you understood the overall meaning and purpose -- the main focus -- of my OP. Right now, I'm at a loss as to the relevance of your contribution as well as to your persistence in defending it.

But hey, a kick is a kick, n'est pas?

Have a great day and I do hope you find something else more useful to do with your English degree than putting alternate (and unnecessarily superfluous) words in the fingers of other DUers.

Whereas I think it's bullshit. I know, Goodwin and all.

Or maybe they just weren't paying that much attention, and the detail wasn't important enough for the bullshit they knew they'd face if they corrected you? I'd let "you're" pass for "your" any day and make that mistake myself, as you've pointed out. I draw the line where a person unconsciously "corrects" an old turn of phrase so it makes sense to him, but obscures it for everybody else. That's what you did. No big thing, or it shouldn't be.

I also gave my opinion on your topic. Nudity does not equal misogyny and rape. There's no way you should conflate rape with sexualized advertising. Other negative terms might apply. Not misogyny. I'm afraid what you're seeing, though, is the wave of the future. See the rest of my initial post and answer to Mrmoderate.

Now, you chose not to answer me on topic, following your logic that must mean you absolutely agreed with my point, have no objection, and that you have quietly retracted just about everything you wrote in your post.

Or maybe you just weren't paying attention?

The first was deleted quickly by the moderator. (Thank you, mods.)

The second finally stopped posting after I asked her/him multiple times "what's your point?"

The third was ignored by me, after three other posters basically called him on his bullshit also. (I do note that "ignored" has attracted one last-minute defender whose misspellings and improper English should keep you busy for hours and suggests either that English is that defender's second language or that he/she was home-schooled in front of the TV by melting-pot fearing parents.)

Then that brings us to you. I'm not a moderator so I can't delete your comments as off-topic, though they certainly (and persistently) are. I obviously haven't been able to get you to stop posting, despite my attempts to do so. (Regardless, thanks again for the multiple kicks for this thread. That contribution to this discourse is much appreciated.)

But I certainly can ignore you.

Before I do, it is very interesting (and telling) that, like the other deflated deflectors above, your comments attracted no one else to defend your line of rudeness and pretzel logic. Maybe most DUers (at least the Democrats and progressives here) had no difficulty understanding the words I used and accepting that they were used to reflect what I meant. Failing that, most DUers (at least the Democrats and progressives here) seemed to have no problem wading through my language to gleam the main thesis of my OP and comment thereon, whether they agreed with that thesis or not. Certainly most DUers (regardless of their true political colors) recognized your posts as petty and completely irrelevant and chose not to encourage you in your (whatever the hell it is you're doing).

Of course, no one else may have chosen to respond to your irrelevant comments because they've already ignored you. No one here can truly know that, except the DU admins. But I think I will try it, because I know I will like it.

Now this old buck is going to take his naked butt to the claw-foot tub for a long, hot soak sufficient to limber up for another day in the Garden.

Now where was I? Oh yeah -- ignore.

Is that what you meant to say? And you were hoping the moderators would step in for you? Is that why you bring up the other three who objected or just "didn't get it"?

You might have been clearer. It takes two words to say "shut up."

How was what I posted the least bit petty? I didn't call you any names. I didn't hint that you were an idiot, I took pains to say your mistake was extremely common and intelligent people make it all the time. I didn't say I missed your "thesis" in fact I addressed it twice, and you have ignored me to concentrate on my side point. I haven't brought anything off topic. The moderators see I've been fair, which is why they haven't removed my messages.

I don't know. My experience of free speech is that you can't completely control the topic once you start it. That's why you're posting instead of writing a diary in longhand. To keep it more on topic, people should be able to handle a little criticism. They should be able to say something like, "Oh, really? I didn't know that. I'll look that up."

Instead, what's happened here is: you've treated a minor criticism as though it was more important than your thesis. Then you shot the messenger, blaming it on me. The odd fact that you present almost a scientific study of other pesky people here and how they've fared, says something.

Since I'm being ignored, you'll apparently know nothing of what I'm saying now (unless you're peaking or a friend tells you!). But a few people will read how you behaved here, look at your topic and will judge your point about marijuana marketers by the way you've treated me. Meaning, they may think it's all due to an inflexible and testy personality, and not anything actually objectionable. Obscure language doesn't help if they suspect that.

What you say might be right about DUers response to your message. But I don't know. What could be happening is that most who read your topic looked at the term "butt naked," rolled their eyes and decided further reading is unnecessary. Or maybe they stopped reading because they didn't know exactly what you meant. Maybe that is what has actually happened with your message, and I'm just the only one who bothered to tell you.

Therefore, I can't feel any concern that my answering you kicks this message. It won't matter. I go with the theory that you're persuading nobody else no matter how many kicks or reads.

And if I'm on ignore, that will also mean you'll never know this is in my journal, though the mods might object.

BTW, Florida has just made sex illegal, because they weren't paying attention to what the words in their new bestiality law really meant. Probably because they thought somebody would respond like you.

That's a first for me, but really helps confirm my decision. Most thread disruptors, when told they have been "ignored", go away mad. But at least they go away. In this case, not so much. What's the matter, bub? Doesn't anyone else here at DU want to play with you? Can't figure out why? No surprise there.

Pretty pathetic, on so many levels, except for the additional kick to this thread.

RIP, whoever you are. In seven years here at DU, I have only "ignored" a dozen people, eight of whom were later tombstoned by the mods. However, three more disruptors have been added to my short list in the last week alone. Grave-diggers, get ready....

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you (which seems to be where we are now) and then ... well most Democrats and progressives here know the rest of that story.

Buh-bye (again). How can we (not) miss you when you won't go away?

without fear of prosecution. It's a natural herb like dandelions, for cripes sake.

But I agree with the part about the sleazy element screwing up the chance for some sane marijuana laws.

REC.

Some dispensaries do that here in Wa state too.

towards complete legalization.

I look forward to the Budweiser frogs toking up during the Superbowl.

:hi:

Basically these dispensaries are operating as though MJ is fully legal. It might as well be with the ease which a person can get a card nowadays.

Fact of the matter if that we just need to say F it and go for full legalization.

... help defuse the last vestiges of reefer madness and hasten the day when full legalization occurs. But if it is handled in a way that is flippant, offensive and dismissive of the concerns of non-using voters, it will hamper progress. It is hampering (and even turning back) progress now. (Case in point: Montana.)

Thanks for your comment.

Social lubricant.

Ads like that are hurting us.

and explain how they shouldn't use their sexy bodies for explotive means?

Stay classy. Use the "spell check" button. Everybody should.

but you should have asked...

Maybe got a different perspective

But I know what you mean. I just don't think it is relevant.

My position is that it doesn't matter at all what the motives, purposes, life circumstances or attitudes of scantily-clad people pushing medical cannabis are. What matters to me (and evidently to lots of the folks who responded to this thread) is what that image does to our chances to expand access to medical cannabis or, for that matter, to move us closer to the day when cannabis can be used by responsible adults for non-medical reasons.

Thanks for the kick(s).

Much appreciated.

having our right to advertise service, stripped away.

i guess being respectful and professional didnt do us one bit of good did it?

... farces of evil that control your legislature these days.

As I mentioned upthread, I had a conversation with a Montana provider at the NORML convention who said that inappropriate promotions/advertising in Montana by a small handful of providers did cause public relations problems and those problems were evidently cited in your legislative debate on repealing the will of the people up there. Those legislative discussions about problematic promotions/advertising were also referenced in Montana-related media coverage posted on the NORML web-site.

As an outsider, I have always been impressed with Montana's program myself and, again, I hope y'all prevail. Of course, having lived in Wind River country in Wyoming a while and having had the chance to work a bit with the Crow Nation, I am very fond of your part of the world.

Take care. Now back to the Garden. Fortunately, I missed a month-late last frost last night (but just by a few degrees.) I had too much up too tall in the Garden to be able to cover it all. Thankfully, Mother Nature was kind to me and to my Garden. Hope She'll be kind to Montanans too and allow the kind to continue to be available to those in need.