Can we lay off the magic underwear remarks? I'm all for bashing the

LDS when it funds anti-gay campaigns. I myself try to be in the forefront of bashing the bishops when they use Church money to bash gays or try to pressure Catholic politicians over women's rights. But bashing Mormons beliefs is akin to bashing a female politician for being ugly. It doesn't address the issue at hand, and it makes us look small.

as are the RC's. Sorry their beliefs are abhorrent to American Democracy. No Quarter and I expect none from religionists

It's a hateful, repressive religion that supports the very worst of the worst politicians and policies.

Mormons not only actively work against recognizing equal Constitutional rights for GLBT folks, they continually support anti-democratic legislation that crushes working people and the least fortunate in our country.

I totally agree. No quarter.
:thumbsup:

you're a much, much better man than I am, Gunga Din.

:crazy: :silly: :dunce:
As Bill Maher said, Mormons were the Scientologists of the 19th century.

Basically all religious beliefs fall under the :crazy: :silly: :dunce: category.

whereas religion is strictly PRO-CHOICE.

We lose when 'making nice'.

You poke me, I'll deck you.


Time to stop playing by some obscure set of rules only one side adheres to.

"winning" anything political?


If you want to "make mean" in the outside world

it's one thing..If you're just trying to hurt

or disrespect DUers who might be Mormons or

have Mormon backgrounds, you're just being rude.:shrug:

I have a very low bullshit threshold, and will tell a person to their face that they are full of it.

If someone here professes any religion, I suggest to them to clean up their own belief system before preaching to anyone else.

You voluntarily belong to a group that espouses intolerance?

I'll call you on it.

but you shouldn't confuse "being rude"

with practicing politics..The latter

can actually accomplish something, the

former does nothing but

alienate people people and rarely

stems from anything more than

self-indulgence.

Waaah, I'm a meany!

People like you, for example.

... like a bigot.

What's wrong with a little reflection? "Do I REALLY think these undies are magic? Do I REALLY think a Messiah is coming back? Do I REALLY think I'll get 72 virgins in Heaven? Do I REALLY a guy brought two of every animal onto a boat? Do I REALLY think this little planets among billions is the center of "god's" focus?" ... and so on. Scientific principles are constantly tested, why not "faith"?

I do question my own beliefs fairly regularly.

But, entertain yourself.

back in the 70's...

not to mention shirts that were more collar then shirt :P

Although to this day, i still wear the ties that would make a modern artist blush...

I have found Mormons to be some of the most intolerant, hateful and bigoted people I have ever met, and that INcludes Southern Baptist evangelicals (who are pretty bad themselves).

I have personal dislike for the Southern Baptists. They are intolerant, racists, women hating,anti-choice, anti-gay, assholes. I went to a Southern Baptists school, it was hell. We got told what a good Christan man Bush was and how wrong Kerry was. Oh, and the Southern Baptist Convention has an organization dedicated to influencing politics.

According to www.jewsforjudaism.com

Talk about holding two contradictory ideas in your head at the same time -- Messianic Jews are there!!

:banghead:

Of course I heard that from a Jewish religious teacher and they tend to not be too fond of J4J.

changed her baby's diaper at a traffic light, then tossed the dirty diaper out the window as she drove off.

Does this mean that all Mexicans are unsanitary litter bugs?

What about Moslems? Are they all intolerant terrorists?

unless that person personally knew the "Mexican" who allegedly tossed the diaper out the window.

Mexicans. I was just trying to hold up a mirror to the suggestion that all Baptists are intolerant, or all Mormons are intolerant!

They may not all be, but a large majority is, because that is what their religion teaches them. It is preached from the pulpit every Sunday.

Can you point out any leadership dedicated to enacting laws requiring everyone throw diapers out windows?

The LDS and the RCs will just have to deal with stigma placed on them by their own fucking leadership. If they don't like it, they can work within their own organizations to clean house - or quit.

BTW, the LDS and RCC are groups people volunteer to join (or retain membership).

In MY personal experience - which I gained from being a non LDS person living in Utah for ten years - the LDS community was composed of some of the most friendly, non-judgemental, and caring people I have ever met. And when discussing politics or other religions, or even atheism, they certainly never said anything close to the bigoted, hateful things one hears on DU.

I thought we were supposed to be more enlightened than them?

and it is not ok to think that Magic Underwear is not a conversation topic at the very least.

Pick your poison indeed.

i.e., those that run counter to democratic principles. :shrug:

I could not live without your retorts, as I am sure most of DU would agree. :eyes:





:sarcasm:

No, I didn't think so.:eyes:

I bash the bishops for using spiritual blackmail to try to control liberal politicians ( oddly enough, they never call out conservatives by name for cutting social welfare programs!)

That's an entirely different thing than, for example, snickering about the doctrine of the Virgin Birth.

In other words - it's open season on what people say or do. Attacking them for trying to impose their personal beliefs on the rest of us is OK. Attacking their personal beliefs is just plain dumb.

If someone argues gay people are bad because the Christian Holy Bible says so, then we have a right to critically examine the Christian Holy Bible.

Likewise for Mormon bibles, or scientific textbooks, or any other evidence offered.

after they were dead!!! That is the lowest of low.

Tikki

I'm sure they've already "converted" my dear dead Jewish parents. :shrug:

Genealogy has always been huge on the net. And a yearlong membership is $169 a pop. If you want to pay month to month, it goes up to $240.

If any of their members have links to the Bin Laden family, you can bet he's either been baptized or is on a list to be baptized.

This is an organization that had to be SUED to stop baptizing Holocaust victims. :shrug:

It shouldn't even have to be said on a "progressive" site.

:(

LOL.

Republicans will never nominate a Mormon, no matter how "presidential" he looks or how much money he has..

Like it or not, we have woven religion into our politics, and there are just "some" faiths that are not acceptable to the republican electorate.

Until Kennedy, religion was pretty much a non-issue. No one cared what religion the president was (because they had all been protestant).

We were a very waspy place..

In modern times, Jimmy Carter was the first who made "faith & re-born-ness " a big deal, and gave rise to all sorts of nonsense we now have to put up with:(

A person's physical looks are pre-determined by their genes, and how one looks is totally irrelevant to their political positions.

"Magic Underwear" is something concocted by a religion to show the world that their religion is powerful enough to produce a garment that protects them. If they can get people to buy into this, they can get people to buy into their bigotry and hatred.

A person's looks is reality based. "Magic Underwear" is pure fantasy designed to entrap the feeble minded into believing that Mormonism has some sort of magical powers.

Sorry, but "Magic Underwear" should be ridiculed to death.

political debate as a person's looks. In my boo, attacking Romney's underwear is right up there with the Republicans laughing at Gore's beard. (Wearing a beard is a matter of choice - so there! :evilgrin: )

designed to dupe people into believing in fairy tales, and once they believe that one, then convincing them that homosexuals are sinners is easy.

No, the two do not equate.

do you not think conservatives would have used that as an excuse to question his sanity and fitness to hold office?

Magic underwear is pertinent to the discussion because its indicative of magical thinking in general and magical thinking from our politicians is what got us into the mess we're in today (WMDs anyone? the axis of evil? the invisible hand of the market?)

bring up mothers who breast feed at the Olive Garden while smoking....

HOw is that different from the RW making fun of people?

See the right-wing's "humor" can be very mean-spirited and often has racist or sexist undertones to it. You ever been to a comedy club? See no one is making fun of the people who wear the "magic underwear", we're making fun of the mere idea that "magic underwear" exists. Big difference.

As a homeless person who just witnessed a DU group laughing about a homeless man compacted in a dumpster, I find this "lighten up" to be disgusting.

As a woman who was, with other women, told to "lighten up" when we were fighting for women's rights, and "can't you take a joke" when it was at our expense, I find this all just one more part of oppression.

Same with a cop, who didn't want to take my report of my car broken into, and when I insisted and saw porn in his clipboard, his "It is just a joke" was a little less than honest.

What all of the above have in common is not giving a damn who is hurt. That tells me what people get out of laughing at others.

So, telling me to "lighten up" says just about all I need to know, doesn't it?

This is absolutely NO BETTER than the RW. NONE.

If it were, people like Stewart, O'Brien, and every host you can think of would be out of business. :eyes:

Look don't get me wrong, I'm completely against the idea of hate speech, I hate that racists, sexists, bigots and homophobes can say whatever they want and not get in trouble for it, but telling a fucking joke isn't a personal attack. Yeesh. :eyes:

considered a JOKE on DU.

Maybe when more DUers become homeless they will understand just how ugly they have been.

Yeeeesh, your own self.

That isn't a joke. I said that before. If you can't tell what is a joke and what isn't. :eyes:

On second thought, you might want to

hold off on Judaism and Islam or else

you're likely to be attacked as

a bigot.

Some religions around here

are "more equal" than

others, it seems.:eyes:

it achieves even more power in the minds of those who buy into it. If such magical thinking didn't actually cause quite a bit of harm in the real world, it might not matter so much, but the opposite is true.

It's fair game, imho.

Sorry don't have a problem with bringing up that aspect of their beliefs.

incubators of hate and intolerance.

I am an equal opportunity BASHER!

is how they get people to buy in. If you believe that, then you believe everything else that follows.

and this promotion if idiocy runs over into everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, but especially politics.

Bullshit...and if you're really the

"equal opportunity" basher you imagine

youself to be, try "bashing"

some of the nasty, equally "intolerant"

atheists here who despise and denigrate

any and all who do NOT see things

as they do.

I can find someone funny about any belief system. I'm an atheist and I can laugh at atheist jokes.

just money-making enterprises that operate out of churches, syngogues, mosks and temples instead of offices.

I DO believe that there is a God! But I wouldn't give two $hits for ANY religion......religions insinuate themselves between people and God and put more distance between people and God instead of bringing people and God closer together.

Religions have caused way too much death, destruction and heartache to too many people for too many centuries to be considered a gift from God.

I didn't mean to go off on a rant, but I wanted you to know that I think religion is a business that uses people's belief in God to make money........and I don't believe in religions.

But I do believe in God!

hold!

A lot of mainstream Christians think that is perfectly believable, while scoffing at magic undies and such. I think it's funny how people will buy one outlandish fairy tale hook-line-and-sinker but reject others as being completely "out there."

There are at least 16 other faiths/cultures that believe a saviour born of a virgin, who is sacrificed/killed and is risen 3 days later and has 12 followers:
http://www.ourbeacon.com/cgi-bin/bbs60x/webbbs_config.pl/md/read/id/314123119152876
• Osiris was the Sun-god born to Virgin Ceres.
• Krishna - Lord Krishna (Chrish-na) of India was the 8th Avtar of India (1200 BC). His Virgin Mother Devaki had been overshadowed by the Holy Ghost (Naraan) of the Supreme God, Brahma.
• Serapis of Alexandria was born to Virgin Isis.
• Buddah was supposedly born to the married but Virgin Maya.
• Mithra the Sun-god of Persia belonged to the Church of Nativity (He too was supposedly born through 'Immaculate Conception').
• Attis of Phrygia was born to Virgin Nana.
• Jesus was supposedly born to Virgin Mary through Immaculate Conception.
• Hercules, a prominent mythical figure of the Sun-worship cult, was born to Virgin Prudence through Immaculate Conception.
• Bacchus was the Only Begotten Son of Jupiter through Virgin Semele. We also find historical references to the Grecian Crucified Savior, Bacchus Son of Virgin Minerva.
• The Sun-god Balder was called the Healer the Savior of mankind. Virgin Frigga conceived him of the All Father, Odin.
• In China, the Sun-god Yu was born to Virgin Shing-Mon, like all others, through Immaculate Conception.
Born in Stables or Caves
The make-believe birth of Jesus in a stable is no co-incidence. Astrologically speaking, at the time of the birth of the sun on Dec. 25th (as in the case of these 'Saviors' including Jesus), the constellation directly under the earth is that of Capricorn. This constellation is known as the Stable of Augeus, the famous Augean Stable in relation to Hercules. (Burrit's Geography of the Heavens)
Now, with extremely slight variations, here are the astounding similarities:
 All of them were supposedly born to Virgins.
 Their date of birth has been claimed to be about the same i.e. Dec 25 which is related to the birth of the sun in Astrology. So is the birth of the Sun-god according to the Sun-worship cults, around Dec 25.
 All of them were born in the isolation of caves, stables or barns.
 They toiled in sweat and blood for humanity.
 They were the "Alpha and Omega".
 All of them were God-incarnates.
 Most of them had twelve disciples.
 Most of these figures were betrayed by one of their own disciples.
 They were called Healer, Mediator, Light-bringer, Sin-Bearer, Savior, Deliverer, Anointed, and Messiah.
 All of them were called "the Lamb of God" that would carry the sins of mankind.
 They were vanquished by the "powers of evil and darkness".
 They washed the sins of humanity with their own blood.
 A "Passion" story is common to them.
 All of them rose again from the dead.
 They died on Friday before Easter Sunday.
 They rose from the dead on Easter Sunday.
 They had weeping virgins coming to their graves.
 Their graves were found empty.
 They mysteriously vanished from the earth going to the underworld or hell.
 Then they ascended to heaven.
 Churches and temples were built in their name.
 People were received into their religion by Baptism.
 All of them were commemorated by eating the God (Holy Communion, Eucharistic meals or Lord's Supper: "This bread is my flesh; eat it - This wine is my blood; drink it.")
 They were supposed to come back on earth once again. (None has)
 The birth of all Sun-gods was announced by a bright star.
......................................
Christians do not have a corner on that market. many of those ideas came many 100's of years prior to Christ.

Nothing wrong with storytelling -- but seeing fiction as truth/history gets problematic.

I have Mormon heritage on my dad's side and am always one of the first to laugh at Mormonism's looniness.

And magic underwear is most definitely laugh worthy, as is much of the LDS beliefs and practices, though I do respect their sense of community and the emphasis placed on family. But a lot of their stuff is so hokey and corny it's hard to believe sober adults would actually do it.

IMO, "faith" deserves to be bashed more than any other type of belief because it is based on superstition and irrational thinking, not facts.

Nope.

Mormons were not born that way.

but what I don't get is the tendency of DU posters like yourself to be so worried about what gets said on this message board. Why start a thread about it?

1. I know a lot of Mormons. Making fun of them for their beliefs is wrong and hurtful. Would you walk up the Dalai Lama and poke fun at him for believing he is the 14th incarnation of Gendun Drub?

2. I was pretty young at the time, but I've read up on some of the things said about Catholics when John Kennedy ran for President. Mocking someone's faith was ugly then; it's ugly now.

The "bashing" around here is largely limited to any

sort of Christian group...You won't find anyone "bashing"

Tibetan Buddhism, or some other non-Christian

faiths...That would be "culturally intolerant".:eyes:

but this OP does make me wonder how observant Mormons feel about the airport nudie scan or pat-down options.

anyone here who professes anything

but atheism, and it's as nasty and

intolerant as much of what's complained

about on the Religious Right.

Do an author search for Zebedeo and humblebum (and probably others, but those are who I remember off the top of my head) and you'll be quickly disabused of that notion.

and I've been on it virtually every day

of the last five years....If you

want to "disabuse" me of anything,

you can do the research yourself.

:shrug:

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

I simply can't see putting my trust in someone who believes such nonsense. And the gullibility involved in this faith simply defies logic. I do not want anyone with so weak a mind in a position of power that affects me. Period.

I tend to mock a great many religious practices and I don't have much use for any religion.

But when it's any religion other than Christianity I get called a bigot.

Point out flaws in the Bible and you're clever, nuanced, even witty.

Do so in the Koran and you're a racist.

There is a major religious double standard on here that isn't pointed out enough.

You want to believe whatever silly thing you want, I respect your right to do so.

But that does not mean I have to respect the belief or what it claims.

Of course, the LDS have no corner on that particular market-- anyone who believes in invisible people in the sky has gone well beyond the boundaries of rationalism. See my sig line....

religion would stand. Or those who made them.

to grow my Ignore file

or that Noah bought supplies to build the ark at Costco and Jesus went to Disney World after he left the Middle East on his Conquest Tour?

Someone who believes this crazy shit is running for President and I think we should out all of the insanity that we can

One sat in the window seat, the other sat in the middle seat. Just before take-off, An old Irish priest got on and took the aisle seat next to the two missionaries.

The Priest kicked off his shoes, wiggled his toes and was settling in when the missionary in the window seat said," I think I'll get up and get a Sprite." "No problem," said the priest, "I'll get it for you."

While he was gone, one of the missionaries picked up one the priest's shoes and spat in it.

When he returned with the Sprite, the other missionary said, "That looks good, I think I'll have one too." Again, the priest obligingly went to fetch it and while he was gone, the other missionary picked up the other shoe and spat in it.

The priest returned and they all sat back and enjoyed the flight. As the plane was landing, the priest slipped his feet into his shoes and knew immediately what had happened.

"How long must this go on?" he asked. "'Dis fighting between our faiths? This hatred? This animosity? This spitting in shoes and pissing in Sprites?"

Thanks for the joke!

My friend Mark is a great drummer and a Mormon. He wears the pants. He was made fun of.

That is disgusting.

BTW he also made me some money and allowed me to record some great musicians who are now really famous. Thanks Mark!!!

fashon whim have nothing to do with each other,

One is an unfortunate timing,

one is an obsession with that religious cult and voluntary.

You should go to an analogy workshop somewhere and sharpen up.......

How about people who think they are going to get raptured up?

Who gets to decide which beliefs are out of the "norm" and can be made fun of and which ones cannot?

I wouldn't expect DUers to be more religious, but I would expect them to be more tolerant, despite what the other side says or does.

What is it, exactly, that DUers should be tolerant of? Shall we tolerate being discriminated against by magical thinkers?

And if tolerance is the key, isn't the OP being intolerant of people who mock certain religious beliefs?

This knife cuts both ways, doesn't it?

One may believe what they like, as long as I retain my right to ridicule it if I find it ridiculous.

Q. What is it, exactly, that DUers should be tolerant of?

A. How about respect for other DUers who are religious?

No? Can't handle that small bit of self control? Then how about respect for DU rules?




Q. Shall we tolerate being discriminated against by magical thinkers?

A. You shouldn't tolerate being discriminated against by anyone, but if you're going to defend yourself, defend against the belief that is intolerant. Otherwise, you're being intolerant yourself, and you're no better than the people you hate.


Q. And if tolerance is the key, isn't the OP being intolerant of people who mock certain religious beliefs? This knife cuts both ways, doesn't it?

A. No, it doesn't. This is an argument often used by the intolerant to justify a losing position. If I have to explain that to you, too bad, find someone else who's interested in wasting their time. I am not.

"And if tolerance is the key, isn't the OP being intolerant of people who mock certain religious beliefs?

This knife cuts both ways, doesn't it?"

Using this rationale, all bigotry is okay. Is that what you really mean to say?

Perhaps we should all ridicule all victims of swindlers and charlatans..

An elderly couple is conned into giving their life savings to a slick con man...too ba. They gave their money by choice. Let's make fun of the poor people who have been conned. Let's ridicule victims. What fun!

to naive people being conned, then we're in agreement.

The difference is that the naive people who are conned into magical thinking then go on to try to con others into the same thing. Yes, that is worthy of serious ridicule.

to insult the religious.

thanks for making this so easy...

campaigns?

That's pretty evil, IMO.

When should we stop coddling bigoted religions? When they start burning witches again?

or their religious beliefs. Is that really too damned hard for you to get?

You seem to want people to separate out ridiculing "pink ponies" that are fair game, vs. "purple ponies" that are not.

For many, its ALL ridiculous. Is that really so hard to get?

The funny thing with religion is that it's a choice to believe, whereas being ugly is something you have no control over. Belief choices can and should be open to political discussion especially when it comes to magical thinking and a global leader who could literally control the world's existence (nukes for example).

Sorry but if you truly believe your underwear is somehow magical, that's relevant to any discussion about whether that person should lead the free world. And it's not religious bigotry to point that out - in fact, imho, it would be absurd to overlook it because... what? It's impolite? What?

the same way unattractive women are?

Because that makes perfect sense also.

I mean, this is the kind of stuff I would expect to hear on the middle school play ground, not among so called adults. I just ignore it usually and think there are a lot of immature people around, even at DU. *shrug*

they dominate our Secret Service and the Forest Service in the western states. At least considering their fraction of the population as a whole............

Not a day goes by on DU that someone doesn't make fun of people with religious beliefs... It just seems to be the nature of DU.

Simple, if you don't like it then ignore the thread. :shrug:

they shouldn't have such funny beliefs.

Sid

how weird strange and cult-like their cult is.

I would rather fuck a chicken than have a mormon president. Those people are fucking nuts.

Mormonism is insane the same thing as calling a woman ugly?

Including making fun of their underwear. :evilgrin:

Beliefs are subject to debate.

If someone believes things which are patently false and wants to be in a position to govern people in this nation - that matters and is open to discussion.

We have some people with some really, really contorted religious beliefs who jockey for power in this nation. The debate over science vs. religion in the classroom is still with us, in spite of overwhelming evidence that creationism (aka intelligent design) is absurd in light of every branch of science - some people in this nation teach it is okay to hate muslims because they're...muslims.

Some people teach that it is right to hate others with a different sexual orientation. That's nothing but bigotry.

So, yeah, it's open to discussion.

Republicans attract these sorts of religious nutters b/c they can't win their policy discussions based upon evidence or fact.

I will stop poking fun at their magic underwear.

then why does that still happen??

:wtf:

Bashing Mormon beliefs because they're wrong is just plain correct. Furthermore Brigham Young tried to have my great-great-great grandfather murdered after all the murders he'd committed on Young's behalf started weighing on his conscience. So pretty much any Mormon can suck my ass.

I'd imagine fantasizing about an underwear-less Brad Pitt or Johnny Depp would be more common, though.

nor the RCC gets a pass. California is still reeling from Prop. H8 which was funded largely by both entities. Perhaps they should consult their own holy book which teaches one reaps what one sows. You throw out hatred into the cosmos don't be surprised if that's what you get in return.

that is pretty much all I have to say about the matter..it is laughable

magic underwear..come on, now!!

it is for their side

to defend them.

If a person wants to believe the world is going to end on May 21, 2011, I will get a laugh out of it.

If a person wants to believe they have to wear their special undies to protect them from evil, I will get a laugh out of it.

If a person wants to believe they're seeing an actual manifestation of Christ on a grilled cheese sandwich, I will get a laugh out of it.

It's their choices to believe these things. It's not something they're powerless over, but rather a choice they made.