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Per CNN, they've just opened the Morganza Spillway in Louisiana...

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Dennis Donovan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 03:19 PM
Original message
Per CNN, they've just opened the Morganza Spillway in Louisiana...
Edited on Sat May-14-11 03:25 PM by Dennis Donovan
FYI...

On edit - added for context:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-05-14/mississippi-river-floodgate-to-open-today-inundating-louisiana-cajun-area.html

Louisiana’s Morganza floodway will be opened today at 3 p.m., local time, sending torrents of brown water from the Mississippi River into the Atchafalaya River basin, a move designed to spare Baton Rouge and New Orleans.

The corps expects to release 150,000 cubic feet per second from the Morganza, which is 310 river miles above New Orleans. The spillway, built in 1954 and not opened since 1973, can release 600,000 cubic feet of water per second at maximum capacity. It may send enough water to fill a football field 10 feet deep every second across the heart of what is known as Cajun country, eventually filling an area almost as large as Connecticut.

About 2,500 people and 2,000 structures are within the spillway and another 22,500 and 11,000 buildings are vulnerable when the waters rise, according to Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal. Inside the threatened area are 2,264 wells that each day produce 19,278 barrels of crude oil, about 10 percent of Louisiana’s onshore total, and 252.6 million cubic feet of natural gas, according to the state.

The water flow “is putting tremendous stress on the entire system,” said Major General Michael Walsh, president of the Mississippi River Commission. “I directed the commander to open those bays today.”
</snip>
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. What does that mean?
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Parker CA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. +1 Also curious.
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CatWoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. I think this means that LA is willing to flood thousands of acres of farmland
in order to save cities?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. That's the way I understand it too...nt
Sid
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angstlessk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. I believe you are correct, here the link to the Washngton Post
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TheCowsCameHome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. I believe you are correct.
Many will lose their homes and property, allegedly to prevent major destruction down river.


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customerserviceguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #3
16. To the people in that area
it means that the government (Louisiana, or the Federal government, through the Army Corps of Engineers) is willing to flood the homes and farms of rural poor people, rather that that of urban folks of all income levels. It's all a matter of whose lifestyle is going to be destroyed, and whose is going to be spared.

It must be a terrible choice for the officials to have to make.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. It also means that if and when the overabundance of water
is no longer a menace, we will discover some erosion in the flooded area, but also a lot of riverbottom silt, some of which may rejuvenate and nurture the soil in the floodplain. Depends on what is in the water that floods the land. We shall see. There will be a big downside, but there might (just might) eventually be an upside. Can't be sure.
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customerserviceguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. Why does that sound an awful lot
like the guy who's walking his dog in my front yard, saying it's good fertilizer for the lawn?
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #24
38. One of my relatives used to own a farm that was frequently flooded
by a neighboring river. During the flood-years, the crops were lost and the farm earned very little. But, in the years in which there were no floods, the land was especially rich and productive -- thanks to the river silt deposited in the flood-years.

So that is why I posted what I did -- based on my knowledge, my memories of that farm.
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customerserviceguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-11 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #38
51. Well, I hope they see it that way
And I hope that Federal, state, and local officials do whatever they can to provide some measure of relief to these folks. Maybe next year's farming season will indeed be better, we can only hope so. I hope these folks can get the low-interest loans they need to start over again.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-11 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. Yes. Let's hope.
That's why the government has flood insurance programs. People living in areas pay for insurance that covers some of their losses during the flood-years.

Same here in California. We pay for earthquake insurance every year. Just in case.
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #16
27. it makes sense to go with the least populated areas
if one MUST choose to flood homes.

Yes?
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customerserviceguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #27
32. That whole Star Trek
"good of the many outweighing the good of the few" thing, eh?

If you ever wonder why rural folks distrust city people, it's because of that sort of thinking. Besides, they saw the country (f not the Bush government) make a massive effort to provide economic relief to New Orleans after Katrina, even if it was too little, too late. They know they're not going to get that kind of help from the rest of the country.

My company was only too happy to launch matching-donation efforts for Haiti and Japan. They didn't utter a peep over the massive storms that killed over three hundred people in the South just recently.

Like I say, I forgive the rural folks for feeling that they're always on the short end of the stick in this type of situation.
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-11 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #32
42. What is the right thing to do in your opinion, then? -nt
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customerserviceguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-11 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #42
48. I can't say that I would make a different choice
But I did say that it was an awful choice that the leaders of government have to make. I would hope that they're spending some time trying to line up relief for the people who had to suffer as a result of this, on a national scale, few are going to give a damn.

I only take issue with those who call them stupid for trying to scratch out a life in a tough place to live, in other sub-threads on this topic. I also understand the mistrust that rural people have for city folks, having lived a fair amount of my life in the country, and seeing how people in the big city try to pass laws to tell the folks in the sticks how they have to live.

If we are ever to get the country people on our side, we have to be willing to show them some compassion, too.
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Texasgal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-11 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #48
56. Baton Rouge is not exactly the bastion
of the rich and famous....Many, many poor people live there in a highly populated area.

This is not an issue of rich city folk vs. rural poor. Baton Rouge is POOR. This is about saving lives and property, yes... a tough decision but one that had to be made unfortunately.

I am extremely compassionate about the folks that will lose everything, just know that Baton rouge is not a rich mans playground that they are trying to protect.
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EstimatedProphet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-11 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #32
46. Do you know anything at all about the Achafalaya Basin?
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customerserviceguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-11 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #46
50. Not specifically, no
I guess you think I'm overgeneralizing with my experiences of how rural people feel when city people always come first.

Perhaps you have some knowledge you'd like to share to enlighten me.
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EstimatedProphet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-11 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #50
55. I sure would
The Achafalaya is a swamp. It's supposed to be flooded. Biologically, it's supposed to be flooded yearly. Letting the overflow from the Mississippi isn't likely to even be noticed by most of the people that do live there.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #3
31. Looks that way to me
What a fugging mess
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-11 02:51 AM
Response to Reply #3
40. That's the way I understand it, too.
I also saw this on CNN today and they showed folks there packing up their valuables and moving out in preparation. I just cannot imagine... :( :hi:
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EstimatedProphet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-11 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #3
41. The Achafalaya Basin is almost entirely swamp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atchafalaya_Basin

There is no better place to put the water.
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-11 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. I see the right-wingers are already grabbing...
Edited on Sun May-15-11 12:43 PM by Commie Pinko Dirtbag
...the "evil elitist city liberals cowardly destroy innocent God-fearing Real Americans to save themselves" meme and running with it like there's no tomorrow.
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MountainLaurel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-11 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #3
45. Not just cities
I think the larger concern involved the chemical, petroleum and nuclear facilities along the river around Baton Rouge and New Orleans.
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. I think they're going to intentionally allow farmland in a flood plain to flood...
in order to take pressure off levies protecting cities and towns.

I think.

Sid
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Thanks!
That fills in all the gaps in details, you guys are awesomely fast in information!
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Dennis Donovan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Towns south of it and in its path will be slowly flooded...
They're doing this to save NOLA:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-05-14/mississippi-river-floodgate-to-open-today-inundating-louisiana-cajun-area.html

Louisiana’s Morganza floodway will be opened today at 3 p.m., local time, sending torrents of brown water from the Mississippi River into the Atchafalaya River basin, a move designed to spare Baton Rouge and New Orleans.

The corps expects to release 150,000 cubic feet per second from the Morganza, which is 310 river miles above New Orleans. The spillway, built in 1954 and not opened since 1973, can release 600,000 cubic feet of water per second at maximum capacity. It may send enough water to fill a football field 10 feet deep every second across the heart of what is known as Cajun country, eventually filling an area almost as large as Connecticut.

About 2,500 people and 2,000 structures are within the spillway and another 22,500 and 11,000 buildings are vulnerable when the waters rise, according to Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal. Inside the threatened area are 2,264 wells that each day produce 19,278 barrels of crude oil, about 10 percent of Louisiana’s onshore total, and 252.6 million cubic feet of natural gas, according to the state.

The water flow “is putting tremendous stress on the entire system,” said Major General Michael Walsh, president of the Mississippi River Commission. “I directed the commander to open those bays today.”
</snip>
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DCBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. It means a vastly smaller number of people will be displaced.
Opening the spillway protects high density urban areas at the expense of some small towns and farming areas.. at least thats the theory if it works.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
30. The Atchafalaya River is where the Mississippi would flow in large part
if it weren't channelized artificially. It's part of the Delta.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atchafalaya_River
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PDittie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
35. "Flood the coonasses. Save the refineries."
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Eugene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
4. Mississippi floods: Louisiana gates open to save cities (BBC)
Source: BBC

14 May 2011 Last updated at 20:05 GMT

Mississippi floods: Louisiana gates open to save cities

US army engineers have opened floodgates in Louisiana that will inundate up to three million acres of land in a bid to protect large cities along the Mississippi River.

The Morganza Spillway opened at 1500 local time (2000 GMT) to ease pressure on Baton Rouge and New Orleans.

This is the first time in four decades the level of the Mississippi has forced the floodgate to be opened.

About 25,000 people and 11,000 buildings could be adversely affected.


Link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13401894
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
11. The NBC banner says 25,000 will be affected. Baton Rouge alone has a population
of 250,000. So, just going by the numbers, this is a lesser of two evils.

Now add this: flood waters damage buildings and their contents. Historically, flood waters built the Mississippi delta. Farmers may lose this year's harvest, but get more topsoil as a tradeoff.

Of course - they'll also get all the crap that's been dumped into the Mississippi upstream.....

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customerserviceguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #11
21. I guess it would be more economically feasible to help a few thousand farmers
rather than tens of thousands of homeowners, but perhaps you'll forgive the farmers for seeing how that turned out the last time for the people of their state. They know they don't have the political clout of either Baton Rouge or New Orleans, and we saw how much time it took to get things fixed from Katrina, which the farmers suffered from, too.
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Sgent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-11 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #21
53. Not quite the same
After the 1927 floods, the Corp bought easement's from every property in the flood zone giving them (the corp) permission to flood the area in case of high river water.

The Corp sends out letters annually reminding homeowner's / farmers of this fact.
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BillyJack Donating Member (653 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
12. I think it means that the mighty Mississippi has PERMANENTLY
changed course. Apparently, the river has been trying to do this for a long time. It also means more death for New Orleans. The Mighty Miss probably ain't gonna go back there ever again. :shrug:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1097588

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=115x292686
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Joe the Revelator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #12
28. Think you're wrong here Jack
Nothing that ominous
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BillyJack Donating Member (653 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. I'm often wrong.....but at least I 'pay attention' :-)
To me, it seems to make sense that the Mississippi will eventually (perhaps now?) make the 'correction' that it has wanted to make for a loooong time?

We humans really can't hold back nature. Ever.
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pinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
14. I hope this all goes as well as possible. (nt)
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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
15. For those interested in what impact this might have, I'd like to direct you to the following images:
Edited on Sat May-14-11 03:36 PM by Poll_Blind
This link will bring you to the WikiPedia page for the Morganza Spillway and bring you to a section which has 4 illustrations, describing 4 possible scenarios for the impact the release of water would have on Louisiana.

These illustrations have been produced by the US Army Corps of Engineers but they are still speculation.

PB
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Thanks for that link...nt
Sid
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Maybe I can't see the scale of this by the images, but that looks to be
a huge area.
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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #18
25. Yeah, I'm getting that too. Like a "viewable from space" sized-area.
PB
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Zax2me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
20. I really hope this isn't a widespread disaster
What a terrible thing to have happen. Hope as many homes that can be saved are.
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FarLeftFist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
22. Ah yes, The Morganza Spillway
Another American achievement. What would the teabaggers do without the big bad govt?!
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Ready4Change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
23. Call me cold hearted, but I feel little pity for those in the spillway.
it's a SPILL WAY. Why do you think it's called that? Buying a house there is foolish. Farming there, without planning for an occasional lost season for this very reason, is madness. I've got some relatives who bought a house on Mississippi flood plain in Iowa. It was cheap because it was rebuilt from a recent flood. I thought that was foolish. Sure enough, 2 years later they lost it, plus most of their belongings.

If you bet against a river, you will lose.
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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. Having grown up in the state, I understand your viewpoint but it's also worth...
...mentioning that not everyone is wealthy enough to choose where they live. And also, there are some places in America which are wild enough to live off the land. In the same way that there were poor folks living hunting and fishing out in the boonies 100 years ago in Louisiana, there are poor folks still living out there hunting and fishing, today.

Maybe it was just me, but when I was living there there we'd regularly drive out to places where people lived in shacks they'd built. Sometimes with an outhouse. Sometimes without so much as a telephone or radio and with a shared truck but more-likely a family boat. This, of course, is not the typical Louisianan lifestyle, but some of my relatives lived pretty damned secluded (but not from each other) lives, living off the land, hunting and fishing. They go where the hunting and fishing is, and it's not like everyone can get a job and just move wherever they want.

PB
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customerserviceguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #23
33. You could make the same comments
about people who moved back into the area that was most severely damaged by Katrina.

Blaming poor people for their planning is something I associate with a viewpoint not often seen on this website.
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BillyJack Donating Member (653 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. Poor doesn't have to mean 'stupid'......but sometimes it does.....
that's where a lot of 'problem' stems.

Likewise, "rich" doesn't mean "smart" (or intelligent).....again, more 'problem'
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customerserviceguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-11 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #34
47. Well, you have a spillway that hasn't been opened for four decades
You also have people who need a place to live cheaply, and have a shot at doing useful work to feed their families, instead of simply going to the city and living on welfare, who want a better, safer life for their kids, and then this happens, and you're ready to call them stupid.

Since they're farmers who grow food for us, I hope that you're not disparaging them when you have your mouth full.
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DCBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-11 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #47
49. +1
well said.
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originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. And San Francisco.
After all, only a moron would rebuild a city destroyed in a massive fire after an earthquake.
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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-11 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #36
44. All those people living next to volcanoes. nt
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
37. With all of the Flooding and extreme weather expect
grocery bills to go up.

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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-11 12:02 AM
Response to Original message
39. My thoughts are with BManson
BManson was a friend in a defunct chat site "YatChat" who lived/lives in Bayou La Fourche. I haven't talked to him in ages but this flooding has me thinking of b. I hope he's ok.
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Shagbark Hickory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-11 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
54. Oh let me guess whats going to happen with the price of oil now. nt
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