"What IS it like to be gay in America?"

During my younger days I asked this of my best friend in Peace Corps, who had just come out of the closet. My friend was a very quiet, very mannered (from both British and WASP traditions) and at the time, very nervous.

When I asked this question, I thought he'd mention hardships, being made fun of, and sick of hearing 'That's Gay' any time someone didn't like something.

His answer went way beyond that. If I might paraphrase what he said:


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If you are gay, consider that 8 out of every 30 men you think are attractive are off limits. If you even casually flirt with them, they might beat the crap out of you or even kill you.

If you are gay, your story will never be told. All Romantic Movies are about straight people. Even movies that tip their hat to the gay community usually make the gay man the comic foil, hardly the knight in shining armor you really want.

Most music will be biased towards straight relationship. Sure, you can toy with alternate meanings in songs - but you never forget many are written by men for women.

All TV (this was the early 90's) will present gays as the queer one-off, who comes across as crass, snarky and sex-obsessed.

Any woman you meet could be sexually interested in you instead of as just a friend. The shock and heartbreak you see in your new lady friend when she finds out that no, you prefer men, is no more fun to receive than experience.

Through out your life, even if you are out of the closet, you have to keep your orientation a secret. When out with your boyrfriend, they are your 'friend' or 'buddy', not your date. Violence against gays is a part of gay life, even in places like San Francisco.

Role models are slim pickings: You have the Village People, Richard Simmons, Liberace and Harvey Milk. That's IT. Sure, you can read the Peleponisian War and read about gay relationships, but these men are nothing like you. Your life does not start off with the call to 'kill for honor.' You might as well be reading about nematodes.

If you have any political ideals as a person, they will always be viewed through "oh that's the GAY view" instead of as a contributing citizen of the US.

The male-bonding activities such as Fraternities and The Military are off limits to you, no matter how much you might fantasize about such a life. If they find out you are gay, the bond ends and you only get scorn from these people.

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That's when it dawned on me that gay rights really isn't about gay rights - it's about HUMAN rights, pure and simple.

to be castigated by those that will demonize one while professing their holiness, and piousness, and goodness for mankind. The hypocrites and liars who are the devil in disguise.

Basically, they hate anyone who doesn't think men are kings and women belong only in the kitchen and bedroom.

These fundies are a lot like the homophobic, jerks on 4chan's /b/ board, come to think of it. :mad:

say, "who doesn't think men are kings and women belong only in the kitchen and bedroom." What a regressive ignorant backward bunch. What always bothers me are the young minds they contaminate.

>>>>Any woman you meet could be sexually interested in you instead of as just a friend. The shock and heartbreak you see in your new lady friend when she finds out that no, you prefer men, is no more fun to receive than experience.>>>

Now I find myself worrying that I'm going to embarrass the *other* person.

I guess that's a step up. A little guilt is better than a lot of shame. But it's stlll awkward . And I guess it always will be.


Good OP.

That way you can give that person a "Well I'm gay, but my horndog friend X is not..."

My best friends are gay or are straight females. I have straight guy friends but they're not in my inner circle.

I'm not sure if that's me or them.

Easier said than done.

I'm not sure I would have pursued the friendship in Peace Corps if we weren't in a foreign country. But I thank my stars that he is my friend, and if I'm broke and in DC, I have a place to crash, even if chinchillas are running amok in the house...

He did help me realize my inner geek...

Sometimes I think I'm more like them than I am like gay guys and usually feel more at ease socially in a mixed gay-straight social setting than an all-gay one.

But the sexual-status part always seems to get the way of real closeness. Again: probably as much my fault as it is theirs. But I think The H Factor still doesn't sit well w. most straight guys.

But for me it became if you like model train sets (I don't) then wouldn't you have a lot to talk about if you met another model train enthusiast?

Did you mean 8 out of 10? That's a more likely number, assuming even the (low) 2-5%-of-the-populace-is-gay is anywhere near correct, as opposed to the 10% number that is more likely (and not even mentioning the bi-factor) as everything isn't black-and-white or binary and human sexuality is complex.

Others have brought down that number....and others have raised it

Let's just replace that with "the majority" instead of an actual number

That's his guess at the violently anti-gay. Three of the 30 are gay, according to Kinsey. That leaves 19 in the middle who could be described as one of: gay-for-pay, bisexual, questioning, straight but not narrow, straight and tolerant, just plain non-violent, or asexual.

Very touching, very sad, and very true.

That is the most concise wording I've ever heard.

Referencing the bits about most music and most movies being made for a heterosexual audience...

Movie makers are out to make the most money they can and appeal to the majority of the audience. Whats the "fix"?

et al, etc if we followed that thinking to it's logical conclusion.

Used to be that gen audiences couldn't relate to stories about AAs.

Then it was discovered ( gradually) that black people are people too.

Stands to reason that the "heterosexual audience" will eventually get over its "only heteros have stories worth listening to" mindset.

Gradually.

My one gripe is the unnecessary slam at Harvey Milk, who was a hero to all gay people, who was an out political leader and activist at a time when such a thing could (and did, tragically, in his case) get one killed.

He is not remotely in the same league as Liberace, who died still in the glass closet.

True I should have made a distinction for him - but in the 70's, other than Harvey Milk, there were very few role models who in fact were, role models