DU Christians: Are you ever embarassed by your stupider "bretheren"?

I have known many rational Christians. Ones who say "God gave us a brain - USE IT!"

As a result, their studies have led them to acceptance of groups they would not usually accept

So I know smart, rational, critical thinking Christians are out there

You have more in common with us, the Atheist Community, than you do your Rapture Ready folks

Anyway - just wondering

:popcorn:

So I expect a bunch of folks saying

"THESE IDIOTS ARE NOT ME!!!!"

And I like that

They think JC is gonna come back from the dead and Gawd is gonna fry sinners' asses ... at some point. So, it's not like they're bursting with rational thought; it's just that they're a tad bit more sane in this particular instance.

They get a lot of attention because they're so weird, but they represent only a tiny fraction of even the more extreme evangelicals. Even the notably loony Michelle Bachmann and her BFF Sarah Palin don't seem to have any plans to go home to Jesus this weekend.

J-Park made them bigger than real ones. It would be easier to kick them (the ones you're talking about) to the side if they were closer to the real size of V-Raptors




See, if Bachman or Palin were that size, then a good sized dog could take them out, even with their teeth and claws. :evilgrin:

:eyes:

The only thing that makes me feel better is the realization that, despite what the televangelist-crazed media (and, to be honest, too many people here on DU) believe, the Religious Reich and the Rapturists only make up a small minority of American Christians. They just have more cable networks than we have.

40-50% of ALL Americans believe that god created the world less than 10,000 years ago. You don't get much more fundy than that. And there won't be many atheists and non-religious folk among that 40-50%, so the percentage among Xstians is even higher.

better, more enlightened and more tolerant, but do little to repudiate and condemn the hate and bigotry that is rampant in the Christian community in America, then yes, you will find yourself lumped together with them.

Ask yourself what this country would look like if "liberal" and "progressive" Christians, most of whom claim that they are the majority, fought as hard for gay rights as fundamentalist Christians fight against them. But they don't, not as a group anyway. Never have.

How about all of the time? I don't think we'll need any popcorn for this thread.

holding up bridges or Jesus on a piece of toast (which can be sold for money) are the ones who exasperate me. I had someone show me the Virgin once. I asked her if she looked the same now as she did when she was pregnant with Jesus. That was snarky I know, but it always amazes me how some of them think--and I am of the Christian faith.

I thought that was the whole point of the Rorschach tests

A true wtf thread. hur hurr look at the stoopid Xians.


edit - And I'm very much an atheist, for whatever that matters.

While you sit and judge from your throne, please understand that MOST Christians aren't screaming pro-lifers, Hutaree Militia, Rapture Ready, Opus Dei or televangelists

Back when I was a Christian (I was! Honestly!) there was a magazine I read called "The Door." It still exists, but at the time I noticed it it was called "The Wittenburg Door" that is - the door that Martin Luther nailed his 90 point thesis.

It is a magazine dedicated to Christian Self-Criticism.

Not the exact type you expect when you think Christianity.

They had a section, one of my faves, called "Truth is stranger than fiction" where they would clip out ads, news clippings or what not where Christians had missed the forest for the trees. An often featured group would be |The Power Team, which were roided up bodybuilders who ripped apart phone books for Jesus (what exactly Jesus Christ had to do with phonebooks, I dunno.)[br />
Self criticism will lead to the pinnacle of truth.

?

Yeah. It's pretty embarassing. When I went to the seminary, it was "thinking allowed" -- even EXPECTED. Now, it's either "intellect on ice" or "ignorance on fire," and ignorance is winning.

Bake

This is why, in the end, we (people who know what's going on, despite or because of religion) will win.

Think about previous illogical plans: NAZIism (yeah, kill everyone from one specific strand of humans), Lysenkoism, Alchemy, and Rome.

They never scale - because they are a flawed model.

He heard at school that Osama bin Laden was killed, he was at first happy.

Then he asked: "Why did we want to kill him?"

I replied: "Because ordered the death of at least 2,000 people."

He thought for a second and then said:

"But doesn't that make us the bad guy, because we killed him?"

I was at a loss for words.

You told this exact same story in an earlier OP. Except, in the OP, you claimed your son was 8. Now, you are claiming he is 7. WTF?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=1144165

Do you know how old your own son is? Do you even have a son? Oh, wait. You're also the poster that was frantically seeking a way to pass an upcoming urine test, while simultaneously bragging about how much weed you smoke. Aside from the obvious question about why anyone would smoke that much weed around an impressionable 7 or 8 year old kid, is it possible you've smoked enough that you don't even remember how old your kid is?

I've never met the Rapture Ready people. Or Literalists. Or Snake Handlers. I imagine they're out there... simply not in any great number in my neck of the woods.

And as none of them appear to represent mainstream Presbyterians, I can't really be embarrassed by them or for them anymore than the Directors Guild of America is embarrassed by or for Polanksi.

Whether it was the swatting by paddle, objection to disagreement, or attack on the attempt to write your own story

They always reacted the same: "The Bible Says it, I believe it and That Settles it!" and to disagree with this was to disagree with God, and HE WILL GET YOU!

Fuck 'em.

They think nothing of being as mean and judgmental as possible, then sit in church piously on Sunday. Then they're right back at mean the second they're out the door.

Even though they call themselves Christians, go to Christian Churches and hang out with other Christians...

:eyes:

We are all responsible for our own actions, not those of others.

Not so much embarrassed as extremely contemptuous.

what annoys me the most about them is that they can not think or reason for themselves when i engaged them in conversation about christ`s message.

I am of the belief that religious affiliation or dedication does not make one a better OR worse person


It's just a tic on a specific list

I just ignore the wackos and suggest you do the same. The only reason anyone is having them on the news is to make fun of them, not because anyone takes them seriously.

My guess is NO

Are you embarrassed by the intolerance of certain members of the Atheist Community?

Look, you believe in god - I have no problem with that

I do not believe in god - you have no problem with that

Then there is no problem....

But if you want point out folks on our side who can be mean to you...

We can do the same for members of your faith

Perhaps empathy is our answer - it works for me...

There's the Family Radio guy, Dobson and there's Jerry Falwell/Pat Robertson

Do you feel confident in telling them they're OK?

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You people just foam at the mouth for any opportunity to bash atheists, dont you?

but these days I consider myself more of a a non-Christian Jesusonian. The so-called Christians, the fundies who seem to have claimed sole ownership of the label, have forgotten most of what Jesus taught. If they followed his teachings and forgot everything else that's in the Bible, they'd be a lot more tolerable ... and tolerant.

I don't believe that Jesus was God, unless we all are, and I don't believe his death absolved me of my own "sins." But I do like the spirit of his teachings. All that anti-gay saved-by-the-blood-of-the lamb stuff is Paul's doing -- I never liked him much anyway.

:D

The things about Christianity that made sense to me, I held onto, like the golden rule. It's a no brainer, if I don't like X happening to me, I make an effort to make sure I don't do X to other people. It could be a simple courtesy like holding a door open, or passing my exit on the freeway because I can't make the lane change without cutting someone off. Some of what is written as things Jesus said is practical, the stories of miracles and resurection are not important to me.

This is not a criticism, just an observation. There are Christians to whom the resurection is the only important take away from the new testament, and belief in it is what Christianity is for them. I don't agree, but I can't technically prove what I believe either, so I'm not going to bust balls.

I hear what you're saying about Jesus. My dad had one of those bibles that put quotes from Jesus in red print. It made bible reading more sensible, and much quicker.

- don't know of any faction or belief that doesn't have its share of stupid people. No exceptions.

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I don't see any Methodists, Presbyterians, Congregationalists, Episcopalians speaking out against the evangelicals and their attempt to take over our society.

I don't include the U-Us because they were formerly two xtian denominations merged, but are now explicitly non-Christian and have statements of principles, and no creedal test.

I was raised Presbyterian and graduated from a very fine Presbyterian liberal arts college. I want to know where the rational Christians are speaking out?

They campaign for liberal causes, they protest against Republican outrages, but the press pays no attention. We are not controversial enough.

And quite possibly are attacking Jesus himself and (2) Some people just love the perpetual victimhood of all Christians

I'm a liberal Christian, so I have almost nothing in common with those folks.

Matthew 25:41-45
Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.' They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?' He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least among you, you did not do for me.'

Mark 10:21
Jesus looked at him and loved him. "One thing you lack," he said. "Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

Matthew 6:1-4
Be careful not to do your 'acts of righteousness' before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven "So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

Proverbs 31:8-9
Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute. Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy.

Proverbs 28:27
He who gives to the poor will lack nothing, but he who closes his eyes to them receives many curses.

Luke 14:13-14
But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.

1 Timothy 6:17-19
Command those who are rich in this present world not to be arrogant nor to put their hope in wealth, which is so uncertain, but to put their hope in God, who richly provides us with everything for our enjoyment. Command them to do good, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share. In this way they will lay up treasure for themselves as a firm foundation for the coming age, so that they may take hold of the life that is truly life.

1 John 3:17-18
If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth.




Tough ones to argue with.

And one to add:

For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: ... and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." - Luke: 12-48

Stupid people are everywhere, there are just too many of them to avoid the occasional encounter. I am responsible for who I am, that is sufficient.

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Pauline Christians. They follow the parts of the bible written by Saul/Paul of Tarsus. They don't follow the teachings of Jesus. So, I don't identify with them. My Jesus is the Jesus of the beatitudes. My Jesus is the Jesus of A Course In Miracles.

It is not possible for me to be like an atheist in spiritual thoughts, I know the supernatural exists.

However in areas of social ideas, there are probably some ideas I agree with in both groups.


Although that could happen with divine intervention, since nothing is impossible with that, but the idea of being an atheist by divine intervention, would be a bit ironic, so I doubt that would happen either. :)


However that does not make me better or worse then an atheist or some of the Christians you mention.

by the "earthquake machine" bretheren who pop up every time there's a natural disaster.

That's why my belief went solely internal. They have embarrased the chit out of me for over 30 years.

"stupider," more obnoxious atheist buddies?

Richard Dawkins? I wouldn't exactly call him obnoxious. He has never lowered himself to throwing insults. Broad brush? Perhaps, but sometimes you need a broad brush to paint a big wall

But Jesus makes me love 'em all anyway, even the ones who do stupid stuff that don't believe in Him.

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There are close to 2 billion Christians on Earth. There are, unsurprisingly, a staggering number of different viewpoints and takes on theology among that 2 billion. Why would I be embarrassed by the actions of someone over whom I exercise no control? I'm Catholic. The Rapture Ready crowd think that Catholics are Satan-worshipers beholden to the Whore of Babylon (not joking - they really think they Roman Catholic Church is the biblical whore of Babylon). Why would I be embarrassed by the beliefs of people who hate me as much as they hate you?

Am I embarrassed by Catholics who are extreme, fundamentalist, or evil? I wouldn't say "embarrassed" because that implies that I have some measure of control over what they say or do, but it certainly upsets me more, because I do understand the Catholic ethos more and it upsets me to see it being abused in the service of power/privilege/right-wing tooliness. But I promise you that the Rapture Ready clowns are every bit as foreign to me as they are to you, despite the fact that superficially, we are both "Christian."

Incidentally, I do wonder why DU so frequently demands that Christians apologize/express shame for idiot fundie Christians when it almost never demands that Muslims apologize for their more belligerent jihadist brethren.

I wonder the same thing.