With friends like Bill Clinton who needs enemies.????

How in the heck does a little old lady out here
on a cul de sac in Ohio KNOW that Medicare was
almost completely reformed and savings made
in the AFFORDABLE CARE ACT.

How could Clinton sounding like a Rock Ribbed Republican
sit in a public meeting with control of the Microphone
and say in a whiny way__I am afraid the Democrats will
see the results of the Ryan Plan and not do anything.

Playing Mr Republican and making the Democrats seem
irresponsible is just great.

He knows just as Geithner and BERNANKE have said we do
not have to immeidately cut the deficit. In fact, there
are people on Business programs weekly who say doing
these cuts too soon can undermine our weak recovery.

It is Democrats who get things done and Republicans
who destroy and make messes for Democrats to clean up.

Democrats are not going to support any privatization
scheme. They are not going to put all the cuts on the
backs of Middle Class. That being said Democrats I am
sure will fix Medicart.

Also I was a little disappointed in Wasserman-Shultz in
her response about Medicare . Came off as trying to say
to much and straddling fence. Usually Debbie is good.

As I said, who needs enemies.?????

democrat anymore. He's a private citizen and if he wants to hang out with Republicans, like Ryan and the Bush family, that's his choice, but you can be judged by the company you keep.

I hope the exact opposite of what Republicans are hoping for now. I hope Democrats watched what happened in NY Dist.26 and forgot any ideas they might have had about touching either SS or Medicare.

they were appearing at the same event.

Clinton didn't say anything traitorous either. He just said he hoped the Democrats wouldn't "do nothing".
He didn't say the word Medicare either. I believed he meant the deficit.
Something needs to be done. Only the naive or dumb believe we just ride it out.
Doing something could me cutting defense spending and raising taxes.

The problem is the Wall St. criminals who collapsed this economy and it is they who should be asked to repay the money they gambled away. No one should be asking the working class, and especially seniors, to pay with their healthcare and SS for the gambling debts of the wealthy.

Raise taxes on the wealthy.
Cut the defense budget
End the wars
End the Bush Tax Cuts
Raise the cap on SS
Create jobs and collect more taxes.

But hands off SS and Medicare. And if he wasn't thinking about Medicare as a way to cut spending, he would not have said what he said.

how completely wrong you can get basic facts.

Did you even watch the video?

won. DU folks appear to be overlooking the fact that democrat is of the blue dog strain. She was proud to draw republican support and stated clear plans to keep that support. The feature that I like about her after watching her speak is her realistic no bullshit talk about how Social Security and Medicare can be maintained and improved. Her views on how failure to tax the rich properly is by far the clearest headed statement of the principle that I have seen coming from a democrat.

I did some rough calculations as to the 20 million jobs we've sent away, and figured we'd be collecting somewhere near 750 Billion extra tax dollars each year were they still here. Needless to say, it'd but a huge dent in the unemployment rate, and employees wouldn't be living in fear, but would once again be able to move around to different jobs, be upwardly mobile, and ask for better pay when they deserve it too.

money. I think he was talking about the deficit too.

on the budget deficit and debt. Democrats have the upper hand on Social Security and Medicare, they must use that advantage to drive elimination or reduction of subsidies for corporations and the rich. Money that is saved must be spent paying down debt. Progressives will reflexively rail at the point just made, but unless leverage is used to eliminate subsidies and tax breaks for the ultra rich and trim off wasteful spending on un-needed defense spending, Social Security and Medicare will end up on the cutting table and there will be nothing that will save them from an ax. Paul Ryan is a self centered idiot that wants to feather the beds of people that do not need more money while putting up changes to elder care that will kill off the elderly poor and middle class early, but if democrats fail to back Ryan into a corner and force sane budget reform, democrats would have made as big a mistake as Ryan.

could call him. And he did reference the NY26 race where the democrat ran with ads relating to Ryan's medicaire busting, voucher for seniors plan. Since when does that weasel Ryan talk about raising taxes or cutting the defense budget? Who else has carte blanche to call him, certainly not the democrats who voted for him?

He and Cantor are talking about austerity for us, no cuts in defense, nor ending the goddamned wars, but if you live in MO, spending cuts are on the table before FEMA funds are released.

I suppose my biggest question is: Why in the hell was Bill so cozy and chumy with Paul Ryan?

Bill's words,"coziness" and willingness to talk to Ryan

about on Medicare very chilling.

insinuated that Ryan, in attempting to 'reform' Medicare (by privatizing it) was acting more responsibly than the Dems (who, he further insinuated, might take the lesson of NY-26 and use it as a justification to do nothing with regard to Medicare).

I am waiting for the national party leadership to rebuke Clinton formally. If they do not, I will not vote Dem ever again. The party, by allowing Clinton's treason toward the New Deal and Great Society to pass unremarked and uncensured, will have demonstrated once and for all its bankruptcy of purpose and its utter banality and vacuity.

When Obama comes out with it, he will be hailed by the Clinton haters as, 'pragmatic.'

comes out with it, after having pledged unequivocally that there would be no cuts to Medicare, I will be leaving the Democratic Party for good.

if he was "colluding" with Ryan and that was my suspicion as well.

New Deal and lend poltiical cover to it. After all, Fox News will imply, how bad can Ryan's plan be if Clinton validated it?

It's fucking disgusting and the silence of the National Dem Party is all the more revealing. Methinks at least half of them secretly are with Clinton in hoping to betray and overturn the New Deal and Great Society.

FWIW, the War on Poverty was NOT a failure, except that it didn't go far enough.

If anyone knows where there's video of their complete interaction, reply with a link, I'd love to see it.

In the clip that's out there, Clinton says he's glad the Dems won. At that event, he also said the Republican plan wasn't the right one. Yes, he schmoozes with Ryan and said let's talk. So what. Schmoozing goes with politics like peanut butter goes with jelly.

the usual Clinton trashing is getting so fucking old

Thisd is a tempest in a non existent teapot.

the meeting. Not his suck up to Ryan.

with people who have no soul.

What deals did he make with Pappy? I recall him REVERSING Pappy and Reagans tax cuts for the rich.

is just Kabuki theater and the final results are already in. The repugnants present a despicable Austerity Plan (just like in countries in Europe). It's a plan that fills the Greedy Corporate coffers. So the Dems come along (as they are told to) and offer We, The People, a plan that isn't quite as despicable and We, The People are screwed again. Just more of the 'Lessor of 2 Evils.'

It has been scripted by the Corporate Boyz and they're the ones who pay for the RE-ELECTION CAMPAIGNS.

BOHICA.

We now live in a fascist faux democracy. And the campaigning is just a Circus to distract us from what is really important....We, The People are important....not our betraying representatives.

The Empire is dying as I type.

then the actual plan won't look so bad by comparison. And most likely anyone who has any power over these things, already knew, even helped orchestrate, how it played out. I hope they don't think we are that stupid.

The only way to save this country is for the people to get behind candidates that are not corporate supported in any way, but that would mean a lot of very hard work on the part of millions of people to overcome the money from Big Business. If we could fill Congress with non-corporate members, any control they have over the WH would not matter. But, that's probably an impossible dream.

will simply just destroy itself. Industry by industry. Or the people get so hungry that they have nothing to lose and will finally say, 'Enough.'

It certainly has happened in the past.

The Empire is dying....the rich ones know it and are taking the last of their 'slop from the trough.'

didn't do it "our way."

cut the wars & raise taxes on those who can afford to sacrifice.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1180567&mesg_id=1180567

Thanks, Bill, for fucking up Democratic message discipline and undermining the Obama administration and their Democratic allies. Still sore over 2008, eh? Or are you just jealous that President Obama was adored in Ireland and made the kind of history you never did in England when he became the first president to address both houses of Parliament in 900-year old Westminster Hall? Perhaps both, eh?

after all he's the Big Hound.

what an asshole, *spits.

??

and stuff like Obama being so warmly greeted in Ireland and invited to Paraliament, that would get Bills little wiener ego all aflap.

sorry if that i harsh, but I have not one iota of respect or like for that lieng self centred creature.

and don't read what I think about that slimesleaze if it bothers you so

Im weird like that...

facts and truth. So I'm glad he alerted the public to what may be on the minds of Democrats before it is too late to stop them. This is about the people not politics. And in that regard, the people need to know just what their representatives are up to.

Bubba knowingly stepped on the Democratic Party's messaging re: our victory in NY-26 being about Republicans' wanting to scuttle Medicare via Paul Ryan's plan. If he had any DLC "concerns", he should have kept it to Pelosi and Reid, not Paul fucking Ryan and ABC News.

using that victory and Ryan's plan to 'do less' than Ryan proposed, and hoping we'll feel 'lucky' that they 'scuttled' Ryan's plan and are only going to have 'small cuts' or whatever, they need to forget it.

There is far too much 'message discipline' going on in DC and far too little being done for the people. The truth never changes, there is no need to hide it. If Democrats are completely opposed to touching Medicare, then let them say so, now.

But the fact that they are upset with Clinton's remark, doesn't inspire confidence. It leads people to believe that they were in fact planning on cuts.

And if they think they can use Ryan's extreme plan to make theirs look better, then whoever is advising them ought to be fired. The people will NOT accept cuts to social programs. Period. They cannot afford it and it is draconian to even think about it.

Make those who are responsible for this economy pay. It's simple, they can afford, seniors cannot. And the American people don't care much about politicing and 'message discipline', they want to feel secure with what little they have left after the results of the politicing and message discipline of the past.

It's simple, Dems can come out now and say, 'we are not cutting Medicare or SS' and they would win back the House in 2012. But if their corporate masters are more important to them, those who will not say that, will suffer the same fate as the Repubs are facing. We are sick of the games they play, totally sick of them.

There is so much message discipline that we're often messed over by both sides and left standing like a deer caught in a set of headlights.

A few months before an election...they come out, kiss the babies, promise that they're thinking about your particular pet project...we vote them back in, and they return to business as usual. You can tell when it gets close to an election...pick your pet peeve...they'll pretend to care long enough to get a vote.

In fact, I now believe there are some things on the "try not to do yet" list, because they want to use it as a carrot at elections. I'm fairly sick of all "crookiticians" at this point.

"Rec'd and it's a good question. I don't view Clinton as a democrat anymore. He's a private citizen and if he wants to hang out with Republicans, like Ryan and the Bush family, that's his choice, but you can be judged by the company you keep.

I hope the exact opposite of what Republicans are hoping for now. I hope Democrats watched what happened in NY Dist.26 and forgot any ideas they might have had about touching either SS or Medicare."

But I stand by what I said about the damage his comments have done, considering Republicans are already using them to undermine Dem opposition to the Ryan plan:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1180862&mesg_id=1180949

if they come out now and state publicly that Medicare and SS are off the table.

No one can undermine opposition to Ryan's Medicare plan. Everyone hates it, including Republicans, as the NY Dist. 26 race shows. Tens of thousands of Republican voters stayed home because of it in that race. Voter turnout for Repubs was one third what it was in the same dist. in Nov.

Fox can say what it wants.

The only thing about Clinton's remark that could harm Democrats, is if people assume from the remark that Democrats are contemplating cuts to Medicare. They can fix that immediately by coming out now and telling the people that is not so.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding where you see the damage? To be clear, the damage imo, is that people, like me, eg, think he means the Dems WERE planning to cut medicare and we will be told 'we had to, we couldn't stop the Repubs, but it's better than Ryan's privatization plan and we can fix it when the economy is back on track'. We are the people who vote for Dems. But many will not if that turns out to be true.

Security. That's the problem

I have not heard them speak out strongly AGAINST touching those programs and sometimes silence speaks volumes.

of the current Democratic Party is an overwhelming majority in both houses and a Democratic President. They would then have nowhere to hide.

get them a majority in both houses AND the WH, we are told that's not enough because of the Blue Dogs. I never bought that. The Republicans are able to get their party in line to vote in lockstep, see the Ryan Plan eg. Many of them did NOT want to vote for that, they fought with Ryan and his supporters behind the scenes, they knew from the polling they had done that it was political death to do it, but when it came to the vote, they got in line and voted for it.

Good leadership is what is needed then if a majority such as they had and then blew, is not enough for them to get our agenda passed. They always have excuses, so I think you are right, they don't want a super majority. But WE need it. Which is why I will never donate to the party but directly to the candidate I support.

"President Obama on Medicare and Turning 50":
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=680141&mesg_id=680141

President Obama says nothing about "cuts to Medicare and Social Security" in this interview done today. He and Democrats have thoroughly lambasted Ryan's Medicare proposal, so I'm not sure where you're getting this idea from.

A $56,000 lifetime cut for the average recipient, recommended by a commission that could only have been designed to recommend savage cuts - most of the commission was on record as saying SS required deep cuts before they were appointed.

And Obama repeatedly says he doesn't want to "cut" SS for those over 55, but he doesn't want to "slash" it for those 55 and younger. Disgusting.

And, to start with, there's zero reason to make any cuts - this is pure triangulation.

hence the audacity in leading the charge.

:hi:

Proof: http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=president+Obama+no+Medicare+benefit+cuts&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

You have yet to provide any evidence for your claims.

Now I know why. You have none.

Bubba's statement does not make me think "think he means the Dems WERE planning to cut medicare" at all. Quite the contrary.

As for what I meant about damage, I guess we're not on the same page. What you're saying is true enough if politics were that simple and straightforward. It is not. Bubba's comments muddied what were fairly clear waters for the Democratic party, especially after the wonderful victory in NY-26. It's not easy for Democrats to completely and publicly dismiss his words as Republicans did with Newt Gingrich's dissing of Paul Ryan's plan (which I wish Bubba had echoed instead of dissing Democrats' efforts to stymie Ryan's ideas), given the enormous influence the Clintons wield with Congressional Blue Dogs and their standing in American politics.

the conservative wing of the party? The Blue Dogs? If true, then wouldn't that mean he knows that at least some Democrats were hoping to go after Medicare? And if so, couldn't those who do not want to, use the NY victory against them? Exactly what Clinton seems to fear? What else could he mean by his remark? Again, maybe I'm just not getting it.

Read all about Bubba's secretive pact with Newt Gingrich re: Medicare "reform":
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=680017&mesg_id=680334

Same with his Republican debt ceiling talking point that came out today:
http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/2011/05/26/136693205/bill-clinton-retracted-gopish-debt-ceiling-remark-after-white-house-request

He is a certified DINO, which echoes your sentiment in Reply #1.

I agree and regret the number of years I spent defending him against rightwingers, distracted I'm embarrassed to admit now, by the Monica affair while not realizing what he was busy doing while many of us were distracted.

I will read the links you provided. I still think all Dems have to do is come out very strongly to state that Medicare and SS are off the table because as NY demonstrates, this is not what the American people want.

Any Blue Dogs left in the party should be told there is no chance of any plans they may have had to cut Medicare even being considered. And if they want to run on that in the next election, let them do so.

And I bet you champion it as 'pragmatic.'

when they got those inclined here all atwitter over their predication that Pres Obama would announce gutting Medicare and Social Security at the State of the Union Address in January 2011.

It's May 27, 2011. Still waiting.

you just "know" we don't need it.

Too funny.

I missed it.

Read all about it: http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=bill+clinton+paul+ryan&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

Here's another Republican talking point Bubba offered:
http://news.google.com/news/story?client=safari&rls=en&q=bill+clinton&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ncl=dskBIgPAPgNGKHMfAZ5Z_9F7EsWbM&hl=en&ei=fBbfTYe-Job20gHO_pnACg&sa=X&oi=news_result&ct=more-results&resnum=1&ved=0CDIQqgIwAA

that he was being filmed.

This doesn't happen all that often! ;)

So we know Clinton was acting like a Republican collaborator.

Of course, that's what DLC politicos DO, much of the time.

:hi:

He says the Democrats shouldn't "do nothing." That is not a 'high five.'

Medicare is ABSOLUTELY off the table and staying off the table!!!! :mad:

district by attacking Social Programs, I hope they realize that Democrats will face an even worse backlash from their constituents.

I've read that over 100,000 people who voted for the Republican in Nov. in NY Dist.26 stayed him in the special election. Which proves that even Repubs do not want their social programs cut no matter what they say. When they are faced with losing those programs, they stay home. So imagine what will happen with Democrats.

Clinton's remark proves that it was 'on the table' for Democrats. And we should not ignore that information.

We can not give a single inch on any of these social programs ... they work!!!

ClarkUSA.

Clinton suggests that Ryan's attempts to reform Medicare (by privatizing it) make Ryan a statesman and that Dems will try to use NY-26 to avoid having to act like statesmen and make the painful choice to cut Medicare.

Clinton's remarks help to lend legitimacy and 'gravitas' to Ryan's plan, demonstrated by the fact that Fox is now using Clinton's remarks to bash Dems.

If Medicare cuts were on the table, most Dems had to be dragged kicking and screaming to that table. Obama had explicitly ruled out cuts to Medicare. And until Clinton shot off his mouth and revealed where his true interest lie (not with working people, that's for sure), the Ryan plan was a millstone that was going to doom the Repukes in 2012. Now that Clinton has implied that Ryan is the real statesman, it provides cover to the Repukes.

Clinton should at a minimum face a formal party rebuke and, imho, should be expelled from the Democratic Party for betraying it.

Edited for clarity and garbled syntax.

the same room with the table.

I hope he doesn't do the same thing with Medicare.

:thumbsup:

...should stay on the porch where he belongs.

What's he doing today? Playing golf with Poppy and Dubya?

However, since he's been out of office, he's been of almost no use to the Democratic Party and, in fact, almost seems to be helping the Republicans to some degree. I remember being upset at him when he he stood behind George W. Bush's decision to invade/occupy Iraq during the 2004 campaign, which helped "neuter" the issue in Bush's favor, he wasn't very helpful during the 2008 primaries (though I'll cut him some slack since his wife was running and he did support the team after the primaries), and now he appears to be getting chummy with Paul Ryan and Ryancare, threatening the party message discipline right when we have the Republicans on the run on the Medicare issue. Somebody (Hillary?) needs to have a private conversation with him and remind him that he's supposed to be a Democrat, he's not President anymore, and, if nothing else, he should keep disagreements over issues like this more private. Just like Obama doesn't need to have Democrats freaking out over announcing the same position on Israel as every other President and giving the Republicans more ammunition to go after him, we don't need Bill Clinton muddying the waters with this Medicare issue. :eyes:

he was very liberal. There was even a story circulating at the University of Arkansas-Fayetteville that Bill had done some tree-sitting to protest for some liberal cause.

Anyway, Clinton was even quite liberal during his first term as governor of Arkansas (1979-81). However, a funny thing happened on the way to the forum in November 1980, and Clinton was defeated by a Huckabee prototype named Frank White. After two years of White, Arkansas voters decided they'd rather have Clinton, but Clinton himself had moved somewhat to the right in the meantime.

After Mining Deal, Financier Donated to Clinton

By JO BECKER and DON VAN NATTA Jr.
Published: January 31, 2008

Late on Sept. 6, 2005, a private plane carrying the Canadian mining financier Frank Giustra touched down in Almaty, a ruggedly picturesque city in southeast Kazakhstan. Several hundred miles to the west a fortune awaited: highly coveted deposits of uranium that could fuel nuclear reactors around the world. And Mr. Giustra was in hot pursuit of an exclusive deal to tap them.

Unlike more established competitors, Mr. Giustra was a newcomer to uranium mining in Kazakhstan, a former Soviet republic. But what his fledgling company lacked in experience, it made up for in connections. Accompanying Mr. Giustra on his luxuriously appointed MD-87 jet that day was a former president of the United States, Bill Clinton.

-snip


"Kazakhstan’s president, Nursultan A. Nazarbayev, whose 19-year stranglehold on the country has all but quashed political dissent."

"Mr. Nazarbayev walked away from the table with a propaganda coup, after Mr. Clinton expressed enthusiastic support for the Kazakh leader’s bid to head an international organization that monitors elections and supports democracy."

-snip

Just months after the Kazakh pact was finalized, Mr. Clinton’s charitable foundation received its own windfall: a $31.3 million donation from Mr. Giustra that had remained a secret until he acknowledged it last month. The gift, combined with Mr. Giustra’s more recent and public pledge to give the William J. Clinton Foundation an additional $100 million, secured Mr. Giustra a place in Mr. Clinton’s inner circle, an exclusive club of wealthy entrepreneurs in which friendship with the former president has its privileges.

LINK:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/31/us/politics/31donor.html

Not a friend to democracy or Democrats!

when they don't hamper the police state or interfere with corporations, environmental protections when they are a scam, pro-poverty philosophy and Wasserman-Schultz is no different.

Just didn't know how much he played it BOTH ways, and so obviously!

Makes my blood boil!

is money.

Specifically what? Everything I heard was very, very vague and general.

:)

Seems so pretentious. These are not sonnets. So I skipped it. So many of the hyperbolic language experts here write in that form, and I'm done and over it.
Enjoy the affectation!

Seems so pretentious.
These are not sonnets.
So I skipped it.
So many of the hyperbolic language experts here
write in that form,
and I'm done,
and over it.
Enjoy the affectation!

:shrug:

the official unspoken position of the Democratic Party is favorable toward privatization of both medicare and social security.

Also there is almost no discussion of the real deficit driver -an out of control military industrial complex.

Who is the Democratic party, or who is a nation. All the people that make up that nation? All the people by the laws of that nation are part of its population. Or a few people that say they decide those things. That is what your comment is saying.

I am not commenting on what some in some groups might think, or have as positions, but I do think the role of a representative is to represent the people of a nation, all the people. And also to educate that populace to make better decisions on both selecting representatives, and ideas of what is best for society.

And that is the question, that is answered differently by many people.

You got it.

doing what comes natural.

The Democratic Party has milked the legend of the New Deal for all it was worth. What we are doing now is a return to 'normalcy', capitalist style.

plenty of Bill Clintons in office right now. Including, imo, our President.

None, nada, zip.

We are on our own and don't need anybody else, we just need solidarity.

if ya know what I mean.

Pretty fucking simple.

Then it's 'pragmatic.'

I could care less what politician does this.

Then I reminded myself about all the great "free trade" Slick endowed us with. Personal integrity? - an we try so hard to distance ourselves from Edwards.

before the Lewinsky thing derailed it.

There is a large group of 'Clinton Republicans' who voted for him twice, loved Reagan but loved money more. Clinton made a lot of people very rich.

These are the folks who fear Palin, but probably wouldn't mind Mittens.

But they like Bill - he's one of 'them.'

Bill Clinton has absolutely 0 power now, so his job is being good PR, not among the Democrats, but among Republicans.

I knew of at least 10 California Republicans who did not like Obama until he chose Hilary as SOS.

Then they were fine.

Basically, we aren't the target demographic.

I was hardcore Clinton supporter. I was one of the first people to sign the original MoveOn petition about the impeachment. I defended him tooth and nail through his eight years.

Now, I look back and can't imagine WTF I was thinking. :puke:

The DLC mindset is a cancer on the Democratic Party that needs to be eradicated.

:eyes:

Nuff said.

"I think you should draw the conclusion that the people made a judgment that this proposal in the Republican is not the right one"

http://www.examiner.com/libertarian-in-national/bill-clinton-confabs-with-paul-ryan-warns-dems-against-doing-nothing

And, "I said I’m glad we won this race in New York. I hope Democrats don’t use this as an excuse to do nothing."

I think the clip that's out there with Clinton's interaction with Ryan is HIGHLY edited and the only conclusion you can draw is that he's a schmoozer, like all good politicians. And I think we knew that already.

If anyone knows where there's a complete video of their interaction, I'd love to see it.

K&R

...what will you call it when Obama 'meets privately' with Ryan and 'hashes out a compromise' that basically gives the republicans everything they want for nothing in return? 'Pragmatic?'

As Hillary learned in 2008, no one can control WTF comes out of Bill's mouth. Your conspiracy theory is ludicrous.

but after Repugs blew the surplus -- which we understand was probably Social Security

SURPLUS funds -- then the debt becomes urgent --

BUT ONLY AFTER OBAMA EXTENDS TAX CUTS FOR THE RICH!!


How dumb are we?

They are too busy attacking each other.

Calling Clinton an enemy for those comments illustrates the problem the OP decries.

The fact we cannot work together may be a good thing. After all, we don't want to be corrupted by having too much power.

Best Republican president we ever had.

Clinton believed the ONLY thing that mattered was going to center to get reelected. (even if that center is ever shifting right) I believe he made the model that Obama is now following. Democrats that do this, just give cover to the repugs ~ they may very well be worse than the enemy.

I'm beginning to think that the word "politician" is the ugliest word in the english language. Clinton is a politician.

in the real world they can't imagine it would be a stretch for an old person to come up with a few thousand bucks more a years for medical care. Clinton REALLY annoyed me with his Ryan chat.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Bill Clinton is a DINO and deserves badmouthing for his sabotage of the unified Democratic stance against Republican Medicare "reform" as embodied by Ryan's plan. This incident in addition to his Republican debt ceiling talking point on Wednesday (which his spokesperson unconvincingly retracted after the White House called him on it) proves where Bubba's ideological sympathies truly lie.

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Happy?

That will make things better for us all. :toast:

He was also a bad one in many ways. This all or nothing mentality that pervades DU just doesn't work for me. If you can't see any gray areas in life then we probably won't get far in any conversations.

Of course, none of this changes my initial point that being silent when you feel something is wrong is a sure way to guarantee that it stays that way, and is a disservice to yourself, and if you're right about what you feel is bad, a disservice to the country as well.