Why Europeans Think We're Insane. Warum glaubt Europa Amerika Sei Verrückt Geworden

(This diary of which I am the author was initially published at Alternet and is here with as part of the Daily Kos foreign language group republished in both German and in English.)

During President Obama's visit in Europe and especially during his televised address in London, shouldn't we ask how does the British media in particular and the European media in general view the United States? The short answer is, they think that America has gone crazy. This diary provides a review of the European press which criticizes the American weak social safety net to the point where the only logical conclusion that one may come to is that America must be insane for allowing this tragedy to befall the American working class.

--------------------------------------
Intro: (Written by an American expat living in the European Union who holds an MBA degree).

Intro: (Geschrieben von einem ausgewanderten Amerikaner der in der Europäischen Union Lebt)

#1)
It wasn't until I left America that I started to realize how badly the American plutocrat owned media lies to the American people through its disinformation campaign.

#1)
Nicht bevor ich Amerika verliess, began ich zu erkennen, in welchem Masse die den Amerikanischen Plutokraten gehörenden Medien das Amerikanische Volk durch ihre Misinformationskampagnen belügen.

#2)
Well today for a span of at least this one Daily Kos diary, you will get to see what the American plutocrat owned media never wants you to see, and that is how Europe in particular and the world in general has come to see America as a country in decline, whose people are so badly misinformed by the media, they actually don't realize that America is the only major industrialized nation in the world that by right of law does not offer universal medical access, paid sick leave, paid maternity leave and paid annual leave.

#2)
Heute nun, für zumindest eine Spanne dieses Tagesberichtes, werden sie sehen was sie die Amerikanischen Plutokraten gehörenden Medien nie sehen lassen wollen und das ist, wie besonders Europa und die Welt im Allegemeinen, Amerika als ein Land im Niedergang sieht, dessen Bürger so schlecht durch die Medien informiert sind, dass sie tatsächlich nich realisieren, dass Amerika die einzige bedeutende Industrienation ist, die gesetzlich keinen Zugang zu universal medizinischer Versorgung, bezahlten Krankenurlaub, Mutterschutzperiode und bezahlten Arbeitsurlaub hat.

#3)
It just seems almost impossible to get that word out to the American people. Even diaries on that subject at the Daily Kos top out at just over 3,000 views. Let's please remember the purpose of the plutocrat owned commercial media isn't so much to inform us but rather to sell commercial advertising space.

#3)
Es scheint fast unmöglich diese Nachricht an das Amerikanische Volk heranzubringen. Selbst Tagesberiche über dieses Thema bringen gerade mal etwas über 3000 Daily Kos lesers. Lasst uns erinnen, dass der Zweck der Plutokraten gehörenden Medien nicht so sehr zu unserer Information dient, als dem Verkauf von Reklame.

#4)
Therefore this diary today will try to do something different. It will show you what the European media is saying about the American dream and you will be shocked!

#4)
Aus diesem Grunde will der Heutige Bericht etwas anderes versuchen. Er will ihnen zeigen was die Europäischen Medien über den Amerikanischen Traum sagen und es wird sie schockieren.

#5)
Here the British Guardian newspaper says that the so-called American middle class lifestyle for most people was fake and that was financed by three decades of a debt bubble which has now gone bust. The credit ride of working class folks living a middle class lifestyle is dead and gone. Is this article stating bluntly that it's over? The only remaining question is, will it ever come back? I mean, how long can people ride a wave of endless debt before the ride is over, all while pretending to be middle class? Is that what this British Guardian newspaper article is saying? Well, to that end I offer the quote below and a link to the full article. Please read it and decide for yourself what it says.

#5)
Hier sagt die British Guardian Zeitung dass der sogenannte Amerikanische Mittelklasse Lifestyle für die Meisten ein Swindel war und über drei Jahrzehnte hinweg durch eine Schuldenblase gestützt wurde, die nun geplatzt ist. Der Kreditritt der Arbeiterklasse, die einen Mittelklasse Lebensstil erfuhr, ist jetzt nicht mehr vorhanden. Sagt dieser Artikel dass alles vorbei ist? Bleibt nur die Frage wirder je wieder zurückkommen? Ich meine, wie lange können Menschen eine endlose Schulden welle reiten bevor der Ritt zu ende ist der laufend Mittelklasse vortäuscht. Ist es das was dieser British Guardian Zeitungs artikel sagt? Zum besseren Verstehen biete ich untenstehendes Zitat und einen Anschluss zum vollen Artikel an. Bitte lesen sie es und treffen sie ihre Entscheidung über das was sie aussagen.



#7)
This article below declares the American dream is withering away and talks about the use of food stamps in America which is growing. To which we should note that no country in the European Union uses food stamps to humiliate its poor in the grocery checkout line.

#7)
Der unten stehende Artikel erklärt den Amerikanischen Traum als verschwindend, und spricht vom wachsenden Gebrauch von Lebensmittelmarken in Amerika. Dazu sollten wir bemerken, dass kein Land in der EU lebensmittelmarken benutzt und damit seine Armen an der Kasse demutigt.



#9)
Did you know that while 50 million Americans go hungry, the corporatist fatcats are paying themselves ever larger salaries? Shocked Europeans looking over seeing 50 million hungry Americans, the Europeans can't understand how America could let this happen to its own people.

#9)
Wussten sie, dass während 50 Millionen Amerikaner hungrig gehen, die Korperschafts "Fat Cats" sich selbst immer grössere Gehälter zahlen? Geschockte Europäer sehen 50 Millionen hungrige Amerikaner und können nicht verstehen wie Amerika das seinem Volk an tun kann.



#11)
The article below is from the British Guardian newspaper which asks, why do working class Americans keep electing millionaires to represent them in the Congress, and then proposes radically 'why not elect some poor working stiffs to Congress instead? At least maybe those people could identify with their lives, needs and working class values instead of electing millionaires to Congress, who cannot identify with their working class constituent's needs, because they live in the millionaire's bubble.

#11)
Der untenstehende Artikel ist von der Zeitung Britisch Guardian und fragt warum die arbeitende Bevölkerung weiterhin Millionäre als ihre Representanten in den Congress wählt und schlägt radikal vor weshalb keine Arbeiter an deren Stelle in den Congress? Zumindest könnten diese sich mit dem Leben, den Nöten und Werten ihrer Klasse identifizieren, und nicht andererseits Millionäre in den Congress wählen die sich nicht mit den problemen der aus der Arbeiterklasse bestehenden Wählerschaft identifizieren weil sie in einer Millionär's Blase leben.



#13)
Did you know that the British Telegraph newspaper says America has the least generous unemployment system? Let's consider that in Britain, their unemployment benefits never run out. Another example is in Germany, when your unemployment benefits ran out, you get unemployment assistance called HartzIV and it also never runs out. Under HartzIV, while on unemployment, their people still get medical coverage.

Why do the unemployed all over the European Union get medical coverage and the unemployed in America don't? Why is that? More over, why isn't the mainstream American media telling you this? Because most people in America don't know this. I mean, why are you having to read about this on a blog? Is journalism in America dead?

#13)
Wussten sie dass der British Telegraph berichtet dass Amerika das am geringsten grosszügige Arbeitslosensystem hat? Lasst uns bedenken, dass in Britain die Arbeitslosenunterstützung nicht zu Ende geht. Ein anderes Beispiel ist Deutschland, wo man, wenn die Arbeitslosenunterstützung zu Ende ist, die sogenannte Hartz IV Unterstützung erhält die auch nicht zu Ende geht. Mit Hartz IV bekommen Arbeitslose weiterhin ihre Medizinische Versicherung.

Weshalb bekommen die Arbeitslosen in der gesamten EU medizinischen Schutz und die Arbeitslosen Amerikaner nicht? Weshalb ist das so? Zusätzlich, weshalb sagen die hauptsächlichen Amerikanischen Medien ihnen das nicht? Die meisten Leute in Amerika wissen das nicht. Weshalb müssen sie davon im blog lesen? Ist Journalismus in Amerika gestorben?



#15)
In my experience as an American expat living in the European Union, the uniform response of Europeans seems to be shock at the fact that Americans while unemployed have no medical insurance. This fact almost never appears in the American plutocrat owned media, except in very forgettable sound bites.

#15)
In meiner Erfahrung als Amerikaner der in der EU lebt, scheint der geschlossene Eindruck bei Europäern Schock zu sein über die Tatsache, dass Arbeitslose Amerikaner keine medizinische Versicherung haben. Diese Tatsache findet fast nie Aufmerksamkeit in der Amerikanischen besitzhabenden Plutokrat Media, ausser einigen, leicht zu vergessenden sound bites.




#17)
The chart below which the Telegraph is referring to shows America ranking last in terms of unemployment benefits.

#17)
Untenstehende Liste, auf die der Telegraph sich bezieht, zeigt Amerika auf der untersten Stufe bezüglich Arbeitslosenunterstützung.






#19) Here the German magazine Der Spiegel says America is in decline.

#19) Hier das Deutsche Magazin Der Spiegel sagt: Amerika ist im Verfall.




#21)
Did you know that 132 million Americans have no dental insurance, whereas everyone in the European Union has access by law to some kind of dental plan. The statistic that is being widely reported in the European press is that we have 59 million medically uninsured in America. From a country that boasts 403 billionaires, this is a scandal! While we can all be proud Americans, we don't have to be proud of the inaccessibility of the US health care system. We can do better than this.

#21)
Wussten Sie dass 132 Millionen Amerikaner keine zahnärztliche Versicherung haben während jedermann in der EU gesetzlichen Anspruch auf eine Art von dental Plan hat. Die Europäische Presse berichtet weitverbreitet dass wir 59 Millionen Unversicherte in Amerika haben von einem Land das sich mit über 403 Billionaren brüstet ist dies ein Skandal. Obgleich wir alle stolz Amerikaner sein können, können wir nicht auf die Unzulänglichkeiten des Amerikanischen Gesundheitssystems stolz sein. Wir können besser!




Source: http://www.cepr.net/index.php/publications/reports/contagion-nation/


#23) After reading this quote below, ask yourself: Can America do better than this when we have 60 million people without paid sick leave?


#23) Nachdem sie untenstehenden Artikel gelesen haben fragen sie sich selbst? Kann Amerika es besser machen als 60 Millionen Bürger ohne bezahlten Krankenurlaub zu lassen?



#25)Why don't we do what they do in Britain? Bail out the unemployed by making their unemployment benefits permanent.

#25)Weshalb tun wir nicht was sie in Britanien tun? Helfen wir den Arbeitslosen in dem wir ihre Arbeitslosenversicherung permanent machen.

#26) We all know that America presently has 59 million medically uninsured Americans. Here is a British newspaper called the Daily Mail that printed an alarming headline.

#26) Wir alle wissen, dass Amerika gegenwärtig 59 Millionen medizinisch Unversicherte hat. Hier schreibt The Daily Mail, eine Britische Zeitung, eine alarmierede Schlagzeile.




#28) Michael Moore interviews Tony Benn about America's indebtedness. (Full Video Transcript Below).

#28) Michael Moore interviewed Tony Benn über Amerka's Verschuldung (Voller Video Wortlaut Untenstehend).




(This diary was cross posted by author from the Daily Kos.)

And, if that discipline doesn't work, there is also the fact that more Americans are imprisoned than any other country. Everybody is being watched, with an intensity and technological scope that the the KGB or East German Stassi would have envied.

We are the most economically backward and undemocratic western society. America is also the most violent developed country, and the only solvent part of the economy is tied to global commerce and the military. We are also falling apart, just like the Soviet Union did. There is a correlation and historical linkage between the fall of competing empires.

Capital is fleeing abroad, unemployment is rampant, while the government lies about the extent of the problem. Yet, most people are too frightened and distracted to even talk about it. No wonder you think we're crazy.

I dont know if anyone else feels it, but I definitely fear losing my job even though my evals are all good. I disagree that we are being monitored with an intensity that would make the Stasi envious. I dont think any government will ever be able to match the Stasi in that department. Some calculations suggest that one out of every seven East Germans were Stasi informants. One out of every 166 East Germans were employed by the Stasi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stasi#Personnel

CIA+NSA is somewhere south of 30,000 people making the ratio around 1/10,000

government had. Further, the privacy violations in our country are not just perpetrated by the government, but they are also perpetrated by private industry -- employers, polling companies, your local grocery, your landlord, and of course, the traditional nosy neighbor.

And all of what you described doesnt come close to the Stasi.

to 50 years ago, we are nearing the Stasi. If you created a linear graph with the amount of surveillance especially electronic and photographic surveillance that is going on now compared to the amount that went on 50 years ago, the increase would be staggering.

unlike the USSR, there does not seem to be a liberal-democratic revolution brewing in America that would address our problems and seek to fix them, the way there was in the 80's in Russia.

In the USSR, things eventually reached a boiling point and Khrushchev rode a populist wave into power with the promise of reforming the communist party, which he did to a certain extent. In America, there does not seem to be anything like this, the only populist social movement is completely illogical, xenophobic and hateful, both the parties are in the pocket of special interests, we have no savior individual who could come in and reform the democratic party, and we have a joke of an electoral system that simply elects whoever has the most establishment support and money.

We are like the USSR, if the people of the USSR were actively working against their own interests and disenfranchising anyone who tried to speak the truth. Unlike the USSR, the American people have been conditioned to believe that they are worthless if they dont succeed and its their fault if they cant feed their family and the state has no obligation to alleviate human suffering.

Its nice to try to compare our downfall to that of other empires, but sadly we are totally unique in terms of how insanely brainwashed our people are.

Granted, many of the western democracies have better, longer-lasting unemployment benefits, but I don't know that anyone
lives without some fear of unemployed.

"And, if that discipline doesn't work, there is also the fact that more Americans are imprisoned than any other country. Everybody is being watched, with an intensity and technological scope that the the KGB or East German Stassi would have envied".

I'm sorry. but that's just a tad over the top, isn't it?...The Stassi?...Please.

In addition, isn't equating "labor discipline" with a high rate of imprisonment a bit much?...You're making the country sound like
some totalitarian hell hole, which it certainly is not.

Yes, there's a decided link between unemployment and crime, but there's no direct connection. There's no "debtors prison"...People go to prison for committing crimes,
not for being unemployed.

"All those European countries are nothing but dirty socialists, where no one has anything."

We hear statements like those so much I think it is the rock our propaganda is built on. It becomes unpatriotic to see the truth about this country. Sometimes when I've tried to point out various truths, even to people I see as pretty open minded, I get shut down really fast if they think I've criticized the great USA. It's really hard to get information to people when most folks can't digest anything that they consider criticism of their country. Unfortunately, I used to think a lot like that myself, then I woke up. Now it feels like being surrounded by zombies sometimes, chanting "USA, USA, USA".

and I really wonder how "representative" it

is of the country as a whole..:eyes:

I honestly don't actually know anyone like that and

RARELY even brush up against them, so to speak,

You say that you feel like you're "surrounded by zombies

sometimes, chanting "USA, USA, USA".

Might our differences in experience be

in any way explained by the fact that

I live in a blue state and you live in Kentucky?

Of course, none of the people who see the US as the land of endless opportunity have ever lived anywhere else.

I have lived in several other countries.

I like the US best, but not for the reasons that most Americans would expect. I think Americans as individuals are wonderfully warm and kind.

The dominant social and economic philosophy in the US is not consistent with the character of individual Americans. Individual Americans are very generous and helpful. The dominant social and economic philosophy is selfish and cruel. Good people have been sold a sociopath nightmare and come to believe that it is what they are and deserve.

"Of course, none of the people who see the US as the land of endless opportunity have ever lived anywhere else".

I'm not one of those people and I have also lived outside the US.

"I like the US best, but not for the reasons that most Americans would expect".

I'm not sure you really know what "most Americans would expect" in terms of reasons, but I agree

that "Americans as individuals are wonderfully warm and kind".

I'm sixty one years old and have seen the "dominant social and economic philosophy in the US" change over time

and I deplore the uber corporatism that is being foisted on us.

I can't imagine very many people willing to criticize this country here, it just isn't openly done. Liberal people will say we should expand health care, protect unions and such but to talk much about European systems of doing things being better is often crossing a line. People really feel this is the "greatest country on earth". I'm no saying no one is willing to do it, but the vast majority aren't, and you sure don't want to criticize in a way that makes anyone think you are thinking some other country is better. That's the feeling I get anyway.

I would bet I could have some good conversations up north, if you guys could understand me through my accent.

I think it has something to do with your immediate environment.

Do you think it's "not done" in New York, Chicago, LA or other big cities in blue states?

It most certainly is...I think your view is a bit skewered from living in such a red state.

But red states make up a pretty good sized chunk of the country, that's something we, as a whole, have to deal with.

The red states do make up a large chunk

of the country, and they are a big problem,

I agree.

Cool people are out there, you just need to find them.

Just terribly brain washed, as I was previously.

national agenda and politicians to the left of pretty-far right are afraid they'll shit their pants if labeled soft on crime, soft on drugs, soft on communism, soft on terra, or weak on national defense: the nation's irresponsible fiscal policy, grossly unfair tax policy and annual budgets have mostly created, one by one, the factors enumerated in the OP. :patriot:

All bought and paid for and kept in place by rw $$$ --

from the faked Christian movement to their T-baggers --

and everything in between --

They radicalized the NRA to target not only liberals in the Dem Party but

liberals and moderates in their own party, thereby moving Congress to the right.

Same for GOP/"pro-lifers" which is as an extension of the Christian charade --

aggressive and murderous approach to getting their way.

They solicited people to picket women's clinics from Methadone clinics and paid them!

We have Goldman Sachs and the Fed private bank running our economy --

and corporations bankrupting the nation with exhorbitant costs of health care and drugs --


Then there's our glorious MIC -- Reagan quadrupled the MIC budget and W doubled it again!!

That's what we Americans live for -- sending our $$ to the Pentagon --

providing $$$ for 10 year wars -- !!


If we're awake to all of this ... PLEASE, let's begin to prove it!!



We have an election coming up in 2012 -- make a move --

dump those who are betraying us -- fight to move the government to the left!!

After all, that's where the people are!!!


:nuke:

of, by and for large corporations and the uber-wealthy. :thumbsup: :patriot:

So how would they know better? Certainly not by their (often) weak geography skills.
I know, I know. I sound like such an elitist, don't I?

A little known fact is that more Americans have visited Europe

than Europeans have visited America.:eyes:

very red area...Freaking A, I have cousins in Utah

and they feel the same.:eyes:

I've lived in blue states my entire life and apart

from these cousins, I've never met

anyone who takes that phrase seriously.

I've always thought it was bs self-aggrandizement

if you want a better country, kick and rec!

powerful 'our' country is as they step over the sleeping bodies of homeless women and men.

I read, some months ago, at the government website for Iceland about the *global depression* created by the banks. I was going to come to DU and post it but decided it was too "controversial" and I didn't feel like wasting the time 'defending' another country's view on the world economy.

Global depression...caused by the banks. Better to deny than to address.

Sad world, sad country, sad people.

what is happening. I just don't understand why there aren't more of us. Or, perhaps there are but our media makes a point to keep us uninformed. Hmm, maybe I should start putting up flyers. :)

off the reservation, oder? ;-)

Perhaps you're thinking of someone else? :)

I've only been to Mexico twice and the Caribbean once.

I've met people from all over the world because I grew up in and worked for many years in Las Vegas, NV; including 8 years in the casinos. Perhaps that has helped my view of the world.

having seen such nuanced posts from you, I hope you'll forgive my assumption. :pals:

I was just a little confused and hoped I hadn't in some way, over the years, misrepresented myself; claimed experience I don't have or something. Goofy as it may sound, I'm me, anonymous for the most part, but still me.

Thank you so much for the nice words about my posts. It's nice to have someone else appreciate nuance.
:pals:

but for some reason it seems many still watch it --

breaking the TV habit is essential to doing something about corporate fascism.


Additionally, while we hear over and again how bad corporate press is and their lies --

evidently, many think there is really, however, a LIMIT to their lies!!!


:evilgrin:

:rofl:

I wouldn't know what the latest and greatest TV shows and commercials were.

:evilgrin:

I'm 'polled' out! LOL

Besides, I find my taste in entertainment bores the crap out of most other people.

:rofl:

In my humble opinion it's a case of the emperor's new clothes with the America media. We all pretend to see the media dressed up to tell the truth but the naked truth is they are wearing nothing. We continue to lie to ourselves and pretend that they are incredibly well dressed. We pretend that this beautiful window dressing is the truth because after all, we have a "free press". That is to say a bought and paid for corporate owned press. They report whatever the owners tell them to. In fact the six figure talking heads will say anything that the teleprompter tells them to say to keep their jobs. So you may ask what is the truth? The truth is quite simply this, in the matter of the corporate owned American press, their job isn't really to inform us but rather to sell commercial advertising space.

By contrast in Europe, this cannot happen because there is a lot of state owned radio and television media, which is rather ironic and in America unthinkable that it is only state owned media in Europe (like the BBC) that ensures freedom of the people's press.

How could the GOP ever explain this? Because to them, state owned media means socialism!

It would just be impossible for them to understand this and it is quite hopeless to try and communicate this to them. Because it is only state owned media that will work for the working class, whereas the plutocrat owned media will only ever work for the plutocracy and never working class people.

Perhaps my "line of sight" is wider than some

might appreciate.

everyone was without money for a while but now they are rebounding, and quickly. Something he doesn't believe would have happened had Iceland bailed the banks out.

I've read a bit about Iceland's response to what happened. The bankers were dealt with as though they were criminals; not given positions of authority in their government.

I'd also recommend, if you've not already watched it, "Inside Job." It begins with Iceland and shows how their economy was destroyed by the bankers.

which was the least they could have done --

Rahm .... crowing about preserving "private health care industry" ... business s/b grateful!

DU 8/12/10

”In a Thursday interview, White House chief of staff Rahm Emanuel argued that rather than recoiling against Obama, business leaders should be grateful for his support on at least a half-dozen counts: his advocacy of greater international trade and education reform open markets despite union skepticism;

Obama's rejection of calls from some quarters to nationalize banks during the financial meltdown;

the rescue of the automobile industry; the fact that the overhaul of health care preserved the private delivery system; the fact that billions in the stimulus package benefited business with lucrative new contracts, and that financial regulation reform will take away the uncertainty that existed with a broken, pre-crash regulatory apparatus.

http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=B2F85DDF-18...


Economists also told Obama that the stimulus he was asking for was only 20% of what was

necessary -- then Obama settled for even less!!

all else and puts it in place of God; anything done in the name of that god, is the 'only' acceptable way to proceed. No other options can or will be considered. All options questioning that, will be vilified as blasphemy.

But, I think I'm preaching to the choir here. :)

as I do about the $80,000 that I have in the banks (most of it in my retirement account). What happens to that if the banks fail?

It's gone, that's what happens. And then I am gonna want to kill somebody. And that's probably true of a lot of people with money in the bank.

they step over as well,

In terms of our self-image, it seems we suffer in negative ways as well as "postive" from

a lack of information about Europe in the media.

I almost completely stopped watching/reading US corporate media "news" after the Bush selection in 2000. Now, when I can't avoid seeing it- it's a total mind-fuck. There are so, so many things wrong with US news media. It's just depressing to see people sucked into the phony news/reality framework created my corporate interests.

Sure there are exceptions, but few and far between.

Capitalism, it nearly destroyed them too. The people of Europe are out in the streets opposing their puppet governments, puppets to Global Capitalism, and I think are far more aware of what happened to them, than the average American.

In Iceland eg, they are prosecuting bankers and working on retrieving their nation's stolen money. They threw out the government that got them into the mess. They are refusing to allow fore-closures, working on making the banks who were the cause of the collapse, forgive those mortgages.

I think Europe will rally and will go after the culprits as soon as they get rid of Corporate Puppets like Sarkozy eg. Iceland was also preparing to prosecute their political leaders for participating in the downfall of their nation.

But here, the Corporate Elites are given even more money, each time their gambles fail and they are protected from prosecution.


And I agree with the notion that we need to start election ordinary working class people who are NOT millionaires to Congress. Right now Congress is a millionaires' club and those who are not will be if they earn it. Which means few are there representing the people.

Thanks for your support and thanks for the great post. Would you please email me any information or opinions about the situation in Iceland? Also if you could find any links that would also be helpful. I would quite like to thank you and the other readers for your support. It is much appreciated. Here's my email address: democratsramshield@yahoo.com

in the US, example of what SHOULD have happened when the extent of the corruption behind the Economic Meltdown, became known, not just in the US but all over the World.

Icelanders were outraged and took to the streets until they toppled the Conservative Government they held responsible for not preventing the total and devastating collapse of their economy. The new government (headed by a Lesbian woman who married her partner after her election) knew what was expected of them. The people wanted Justice! They refused to bail out the banks, and refused to allow the 'austerity' programs where those not responsible for the meltdown were asked to pay for it. Instead, they went after the Banks. They demanded prosecutions and got them.

Some in the new Government worried about reprisals against Iceland from the Global Capitalists, and urged restraint. But the people were not going to be dissuaded.

So far, Bankers and the former PM have been indicted. The US media which did cover the collapse of Iceland's economy, the first European country to fall, have not covered this little country's pursuit of justice and no wonder.

Contrary to what some of Iceland's elected officials feared if they pursued corrupt Bankers, Iceland's economy is improving every day.

I am hoping for other countries to follow Iceland's example and maybe one day, the US will get around to prosecuting real criminals, rather pot smokers.

I have been planning to do an OP on Iceland and will probably do so over the weekend. It gives me hope that justice might be done someday here.

Check your Private Message box as I will send some links in a few minutes. And thank you for an excellent OP :-)

You can find many of his videos here:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Max+Keiser%2C+Iceland&aq=f

I think it's amazing that our media has not covered this amazing story but I think we know why. Don't want Americans getting any ideas.

Btw, Wikileaks exposed the corruption at one of Iceland's main banks also. So that's another reason why I think, the people were so angry. And another reason why our media probably will remain silent on the story of Iceland.

Thanks for the link, love Max Kaiser. He's a DUer also, and has a show on RTV.

heading for holding any capitalists accountable now or ever!!

restore it, if it's not too late. Holder has been such a disappointment, to say the least. And all you can conclude from what has happened since Democrats took control which we thought would be the beginning of a turn-around, is that the system is in place and elected officials and their cabinet nominees are all part of it. And we, the people, are not. What else can we think?

What Iceland has done is the normal reaction to such corruption. What we have done is simply insane, rewarding the criminals and making the working class pay for their gambling debts. It's our fault, because even here on this board, people will defend the insanity.

Going to do an OP on Iceland tomorrow. I just assumed people knew what was happening there. But when I went to look for links to update the ones I had, I could not find any US media stories at all, just one I think, and some from Infowars and a few independent sources. We are being censored also. So people should write about Iceland as much as possible to get the story circulating. It might inspire the American people to refuse to put up with the nonsense anymore.

American public has for so long been told that they live in the best country ever --

and capitalism is the best that it's difficult to break that thinking --

Especially because Americans don't sit around in pubs or anywhere else talking to one

another about politics. Was hopeful that was changing for a while with Cheney/W but

think we're going backwards again because I think people very much want to trust Obama

and Democrats!

Will be watching for your thread -- :)

talking about politics. Look at what is happening in Europe in reaction to the same Global Capitalist/inspired 'Austerity' programs being implemented here. Spain, Greece, France, Iceland etc. have been out in the streets, this week Spain which is not being covered here, is in revolt. Iceland is not being covered here either, or the Greek uprisings. The people's message is 'we won't pay their bills' while here there is an acceptance that the people will have to 'share the sacrifice'.

Europeans think of their social safety nets as RIGHTS. But here people have been told they are 'privileges'. This summer in Europe should be interesting. I think European governments are a little more afraid of their people, while here the people are afraid of the government.

But the system that collapsed the World's economy is being rewarded here, Iceland eg, rejected pressure from the Banks to bail them out. They let them collapse. We could have done the same here, but the goal here was not to save the people, it was to save the system. I don't know how that can be changed, unless of course the rest of the world does it for us.

other than some complaints, that I'm really amazed --

Especially that Obama -- NOT BUSH -- cut the Cola payments on Social Security

for two years now and no reaction from senior citizens!!

Elites are united every way possible -- seniors aren't, except thru AARP!!

Unbelievable!!


And then there's Global Warming, BP/Gulf and nuclear reactors -- !!! Yikes!!

Good summary of the situation with helpful links (especially Icesave) for more info:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1059150&mesg_id=1061981


ETA: also search Krugman. He's been looking into this for quite awhile, which also yields some info on the origins of what occurred.
For example: http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/04/09/the-plot-against-iceland/

It really gets tiring. Nobody said that Europeans have a perfect system. It's just that on average, it does better than America on many levels.

Workers and Unions are protected and respected. People are treated as citizens first and not as a "productive (good) and unproductive (bad)" mentality.

Families are cherished and actually PROTECTED by things like unlimited family leaves, state daycare and longer paid vacations.

Infrastructure is a matter of national pride. And the environment gets equal billing with corporate endeavours.

Tell me, what's your idea of perfection? What would YOU fight for?

Theirs will recover faster than ours. They do not have the huge differences between rich and poor that we have. They have differences, but they are not so huge. There is more equilibrium in their societies.

We are not doing as well as people think. That is the point here. We have lived well by borrowing. Now, the lenders are calling their loans.

We should not have been borrowing so much all along.

That's weird because I live here and I'm not noticing anything of the sort. In fact, the combined GDP of the EU is higher than the USAs.

and a population of 420 million, about a quarter more than our 310 million.

Your hit and run - without any substance to it - says it all; you haven't really got an argument.

The US Empire is allot nearer to collapse than the integrated European Market is.

Now that the EU is on its way to finding its own voice there's a pretty good chance of Europe surviving even after the American Empire has long gone.

I wouldn't bet on Europe going bust. Look at Germany; the most successful of "western" nations - about 100000x times more stable and prosperous than the US.

Really, the only scenario in which the "EU system" is going "in the ditch" is one in which the American Empire collapses simultaneously. I think your snarkish-brattish attitude stands exactly for the kind of anti-intellectual "AMERICA FIRST!!!¨¨1111!!!" bullshit that is extensively criticized in this thread.

"The US Empire is a lot nearer to collapse than the integrated European Market is"

That's likely true, but then Europe already lost her "empires" years ago, so the analopgy isn't very good, is it?

America may no longer be an "empire", to the disappointment of some, no doubt, but wiil, like Europe, continue to survive.

"I think your snarkish-brattish attitude stands exactly for the kind of anti-intellectual "AMERICA FIRST!!!¨¨1111!!!" bullshit that is extensively criticized in this thread"

Really?...Gee, some of us might feel that YOUR "snarkish" attitude is exactly the kind of euro-superior, self-serving attitude that is ALSO criticized here,

and not unjustifiedly. :-)

n/t

As we speak those same European powers are rolling back their social safety nets, thus the mass demonstrations we've seen across Western Europe this past year. Yeah, the European working class has further to fall, but their bankers and political hacks are working hard on it. So are ours.

It's the capitalism, and it's worldwide.

First they came for the poor of Africa, but I was not one of them
Then they came for the Greeks, but I was not Greek
Then they came for the workers of the G8......

because they don't have a corporate monopoly on the media. Unlike the U.S. the European populace is informed and they know where the danger lies.

Not that we don't "overdue" it on defense spending,

but it could be argued that they "underdo" it.

There are lots of myths the American propaganda machine has fed you. Much of which the taste you really liked, or you would have made a little effort to see how false that is.

We spend so much on defense, because #1 our military industrial complex successfully attached itself like a parasite to our government by lobbying itself into an untouchable position in regards to funding. Nothing was ever enough to defend ourselves.

We spend to have OUR WAY in the world.

I doubt if you realize how often the Europeans did NOT support or believe OUR way was the smartest way, but guess what we have used OUR military might to force them to do things our way.

But our media rather than cover the points of disagreement, sums it all up by reporting Europeans are cheating the USA and letting us pick up the tab for their defense.

Did you even notice how harshly Team Bush came down on France and Germany when they refused to go along in the run up to the Iraq war?

They did NOT think it was in their interests, nor that it was a good idea, and most don't care that we took out Saddam, because he was NO real threat.

Their POV though was dismissed and disrespected. Only someone who doesn't follow world events could think they are riding our defense coattails after the most dramatic example in recent history of the USA demanding they pay for a war they think is a terrible idea. Then when they refuse claiming they are riding on our defense coattails.

The threats YOU were taught existed and justified the huge defense bill, simply did NOT exist in the minds of Europeans. They were boogeymen meant to scare Americans into spending butt loads of money on things we didn't need.

Of course we're told the reason is actually that they are cheating the USA by letting us pick up their defense tab.

Finally Europeans have learned one simple lesson from all our spending, spending often based on pride, rather than common sense.

And that is, it is far far cheaper to find peaceful solutions through negotiations or if that fails, containment than it is to make the war option the first and only option as we do.

They realized after WWII that the price of pride and ego is just not worth the cost, and are constantly reminded of just how worthless it is by our own endless actions to "teach" other nations a lesson.

---

oh in regards to the WWII reference.

The UK fought ALONE for ONE full year against Nazi Germany. They fought alone withOUT American aid. The only thing we offered them was a lease on a fleet of mothballed, out of date warships, because we did NOT want to offend Germany.

Most American know this, but instead of realizing that "holding the line" solo is actually doing the "saving". Instead we've been taught we rescued them.

So cocky and blinded by pride most don't consider what would have happened if we decided "not to save them".

If they did, they'd realize sitting on the sidelines allowing Hitler to win would have meant we were the next target and not in a far weaker position, because we'd face Hitler with the resources of a conquered Europe along with Japan solo.

Nothing explodes the myth of American foreign policy doing things based on "saving" other nations better than this, but it takes thinking beyond what you are told to be proud of.

It was in OUR OWN interests to get involved, and because of that we saved each other. For the USA to claim our intervention was a sort of generosity is absurd and hubris of the worst kind.

In the United States, national mythology is so firmly entrenched that we no longer even recognize it. The fact that the U.S. outspends the entire combined world on 'defense' doesn't seem at all strange to a populace that has been skillfully propagandized. Apparently it isn't even worth a mention in the media. That in itself is mighty peculiar.

was only partly directed at current defense spending

and I heartily agree that it's outlandish.

Most of his post was on WWII and he was largely in

error, although that might not matter to some

who think the important thing here

is to stay "US Negative".

I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

I am not terribly impressed with European public attitudes now or during the cold war. When NATO was formed, it was in response to a perceived threat from the Soviet Union. That threat was clearly reinforced by the belligerence of the Soviets when they suppressed the people of Hungary in 1956 and Slovakia in 1968. The idea that the Soviets would 'leave us alone if we leave them alone' became popular among the European public after a generation of peace, but one can debate the wisdom of this considering the risk.

The former eastern block countries did not embrace this laid-back attitude when the Soviet Union fell. They had first-hand experience with the behavior of the Russian-dominated USSR and did not seem very comfortable with the Russian-dominated Commonwealth of Independent States that replaced the USSR. They clamored to join NATO as soon as they could.


"The UK fought ALONE for ONE full year against Nazi Germany. They fought alone withOUT American aid. The only thing we offered them was a lease on a fleet of mothballed, out of date warships, because we did NOT want to offend Germany".

"The UK had to fight alone for all of a "full year"...So?..It WAS, at that point, a European war, the second one in a generation, and your false accusations aside, it was NOT because "we didn't want to offend Germany", it was because, at that time, the US was largely demilitarized and was not an immediate threat to the Axis powers. Added to this, in no small measure, was the fact that many here were understandably reluctant to shed MORE blood and treasure on yet another European mess, when
we had barely caught our breath from the last one. This sentiment found it's expression in a huge anti-war group called the American Firsters, and, yes, there was a tiny minority, represented by people like Charles Lindbergh, who actually sympathized with Germany, but mostly they were people who were just tired of getting sucked into Europe's wars...It's easy to say, in hindsight, that they were wrong, but at the time, it felt like self-preservation.

Your comment "most Americans know this" is crap, and hardly based on facts....We clearly did not favor the Germans. We cut off steel exports to Japan. We provided ships, food, petroleum, fighter plans and other material support to Britain.

Your apparent horror at the fact that we benefited from entering the war is almost laughable..Of course, we didn't act from complete altruism...Can you name a country that does, especially when asked to give so much?

The US entered the war and made a big difference and honest europeans themselves admit it..IF we had not, I expect that Asia and most of the western Pacific would have been part of the Empire of Japan. However Europe may have ended up German, Russian or divided between the two. And Britain, if it did survive, would have lost even more of its empire and been left defensively huddled down, waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Americans love to talk about how much they contribute to European defence but the thing is, the US chose to do that. America chose to put bases and defence all over Europe as part of the fifty year game of chicken we refer to as the Cold War. Well, the Cold War is over and has been for twenty years. The chances of major inter-nation war in Europe ala WWI are remote. The major threats to us are from loose groups of non-government actors like Al Queda and all the US bombers in the world are useless against a couple of guys with a backpack full of explosives. If the US closed it's bases and pulled it's defence tommorrow, we'd survive. Sure, we'd have to adjust a little but in the end, we'd be ok.

And incidently, even the "defending Europe" excuse doesn't justify a defence budget bigger than the rest of the world combined.

and, incidentally, I believe I DID mention that we are now "overdoing" it.

"If the US closed it's bases and pulled it's defence tomorrow, we'd survive. Sure, we'd have to adjust a little but in the end, we'd be ok".

Yes, of course you'd be okay NOW...but please don't argue that you didn't benefit from our defense system during the decades of the cold war.

The honest answer to that is... I don't know. I was born in '76 and only became politically aware sometime in the late Eighties.

Then ask someone who was alive and cognizant at the time.

Saying that Europe would spend more on defense if there weren't any US troops in Europe is ridiculous. Absent NATO, the EU would simply integrate its national defense forces and it wouldn't cost them significantly more than NATO does today. This stuff has been studied extensively by the EU; it's all in the public domain.

In fact, the argument is ludicrous: The EU keeps pushing to develop strategic capabilities that NATO tried to deny to them: GALILEO; SUPERCARRIERS; EUROFIGHTER/COPTER; these are all projects that the EU financed on their own against NATO/US wishes. The EU lacks nothing when it comes to defense except for command infrastructure which it will never need since it doesn't plan on conducting forward operations halfway around the world like the US does. To say that the "US paid for Europe's security" is an ahistorical argument that defies reality and can only be accepted within the propagandistic framework of the cold war. No one buys that shit anymore.

To believe that a country needs to spend as much on defense as the US in order to be able to defend itself is ridiculous. The US spends as much on defense as a subsidy to its otherwise non-existent heavy industry, not because it needs it. Europe would be better off taking care of itself, without being forced to subsidize the non-competitive US arms industry through NATO-bullying. It would be cheaper and more effective for Europe to take things in their own hands - the very thing, actually that Europe wants since the end of the cold war. That this didn't change has more to day with "Super-imperialism" of the US than with the "gratefulness" of Europeans to the Americans for "paying their defense bills"

- I gotta say - The extent to which pseudohistory and propaganda are the favorite arguments even among left-leaning democrats in the US is simply astounding. America is very far gone when even reasonable people have nothing more to offer than stale talking points from the cold war.

And no, this is not a "Europe good, US bad" post. I've got no stake in promoting this view; but to say that the "US paid for Europe's" defense is simply nonsense.

Where Europe was when people were being slaughtered in Bosnia? If the Euros want to turn up their noses at genocide occurring in Europe itself, then of course they don't need to spend on their militaries. They do not intend for their military forces to do anything except parade around and look impressive.

The idea that Europe would simply integrate their defenses does not acknowledge the political realities in that region of the world. Their difficulty in organizing a financial response to crashing economies in Ireland, Greece, Portugal, etc. shows this. When they cannot even support a single currency, how can we believe they would support an integrated military?

Show us some links. These extensive studies you cite sound like self-serving intellectual dreaming -- the sort of thing we might hear from the Heritage foundation.

Excellent comment, very well said indeed. The truth is the plutocrat owned American corporate media works for the plutocracy who owns it and not the American working class. By contrast in Europe, state owned media like the BBC which is owned by the people works for the people and doesn't work for the plutocracy and Rupert Murdoch really hates that.

Of course the GOP considers public ownership of the BBC to be socialism. And of course as all good Americans, they tell us that we should recognize the word socialism to be a curse word because a free press cannot be ran by the government which is owned by the people. A "free press" must be owned by the plutocracy. For only then can it be free to serve their corporate masters and free to be used a weapon against the American working class, whose job it is to be brainwashed by the plutocrat owned corporate media.

The corporate media is of course very important because in this way our members of Congress will be forced to raise lots of money which they have to spend on the media in order to be re-elected. This money for the most part will be raised from the plutocracy who then wield undue influence over our members of Congress. You see it really is a very neat little package after all, isn't it? But then you see their secret is safe because almost no one will ever this read this diary and even fewer people than that will read this post.

By contrast Glenn Beck has an audience of 13 million on radio and television everyday. You see that's why we need your help to support diaries like this one. Please won't you help us get the word out? Thank you.

which is hardly "corporate owned"...It did get a bit of funding

from the government, but that was just voted down by the RW House.

Government "ownership" of the arts is not always so great...The BBC

has not ALWAYS been "objective" and at least one

government arts system in the UK ("educational theatre")

was axed during the Thatcher administration because

in their view, it was too critical of them.

"Of course the GOP considers public ownership of the BBC to be socialism. And of course as all good Americans, they tell us that we should recognize the word socialism to be a curse word because a free press" cannot be owned by the people".

Yes, the GOP does consider it socialism, but, as you might recall, we're not a one party nation,

and so they clearly don't represent "all good Americans".

By the way, I doubt Glenn Beck "has an audience of 13 million" as

he just lost his TV show due to poor ratings.:eyes:

But we're fighting them. A year after taking power here (England), the ConDem government (which gained power mainly by playing on the same class resentments which the US pretends it doesn't have) is so unpopular that if another election were held tomorrow, they would lose.

To re-install the so-called Labour Party? You folks are in the same boat as us, a punch & judy show of ruling class actors substituting for real politics. None the less I salute the efforts of your people in the streets, I'm sure there is more to come. And it is inevitable that this will lead to the realization that we have the power of our numbers and require self-organization in order to bring that to bear. The conditions which the ruling class is imposing upon the working class worldwide guarantees pushback on a global scale.

Then maybe you can tell us where they were

when genocide was being perpetrated in Bosnia?

Who said the US "pretends" it doesn't have class resentments?

Just because Britain has a far longer and deeper history

of class distinctions, doesn't mean we're not aware of our own.

When genocide was going on in Bosnia, they were mostly unaware of it. In some regards, our media is slightly better than yours but they tend to be just as insular.

I've been told numerous times that the US doesn't have a class system.

"When genocide was going on in Bosnia, they were mostly unaware of it. In some regards, our media is slightly better than yours but they tend to be just as insular".

Excuse me if i find that assertion questionable...The war in Bosnia and it's attendant genocide was covered extensively and in depth in The US, across the Atlantic, many thousands of miles away,so please don't tell me they "didn't know" what was happening on their own continent, especially since
the fighting and death toll was confirmed as "the worst since World War II".

Your leaders certainly DID know about it, they simply didn't want to help, and may have limited the coverage to hide their embarrassment with the fact...I can remember hearing of Margaret Thatcher being one of the very few polically prominent persons in Europe calling for intervention -- She went unheeded.

"I've been told numerous times that the US doesn't have a class system".

The US has basically been a "meritocracy"..It's not who your father was,it's who you are and what you can do. We don't have "class" accents in America, only regional accents. The idea of a monarchy, with its attendant titles, etc. was ruled out at the nation's inception.

To the extent that certain jobs and occupations pay more than others, and that a given amount of education is generally necessary to attain those jobs, there is a kind of "class system" but it is not nearly as entrenched as Great Britain's has been, Several Britons who have either expatriated or concentrated their careers here (such as actor Michael Caine) have attested to that fact.

I don't know about you,

but I am!lol.

It's like the high school kids who gossip about last year's homecoming queen cheerleader who has let herself go.

I don't need Europeans to tell me. I already know. I think I know it better than they do, because I still live here. That said, I'm moving to Europe very soon. Like very, very soon.

it gives europe a heads up-what those corporate globalists have in store for them. It's easier to "shock and awe" us before they move onto those who actually perceive and value their social and labor rights and fight for them. Some people here just swallow the BS the corporate media shovels daily-one being FEAR and ignorance (using the "other", poor, labor as scapegoats).

"Some people here just swallow the BS the corporate media shovels daily-one being FEAR and ignorance"

Some people "here"?

Only if you are confusing us with Fox News or Free Republic...It's a VERY big country.

It would be nice if those with "breaking news" meant for rednecks and RW blogs could remember that.

Euro-envy is frickin' pathetic. They have the same problems we do.

they actually have a social safety net-they actually have a concept of labor rights and a perception of ecology. They actually, really care about their children, and some countries have reasonable child care, paternity leave, and pay additional monies to take care of their children.

Seeing the de-regulation, and just plain greed in this country with little care of the most vulnerable, hell yeah I have "Euro envy." Our politicians would sell all of us in a heartbeat to even foreign corporations, as long as they "win."

"They actually, really care about their children, and some countries have reasonable child care, paternity leave, and pay additional monies to take care of their children".

When Europe was highly homogeneous, it was not so hard for them to see all of the children in a country as "ours"....Now that Europe is a lot less racially and religiously homgeneous, the concept is changing...A few years ago, Ireland voted overwhelmingly to kill a bill that would make the children of illegal immigrants "citizens", aka "our children", eligible for state benefits.

and yes, they DO have quite a few of the

same problems we do, the brits especially.

It's easy to say that, you can't back it up.

I know you can't, because it's not true.

Oh sure you'll find experts claiming describing their problems as being as bad as ours, BUT when you compare the #s they are doing pretty well in comparison.

A good example is their healthcare.

It's easy to find Brits bitching about it, and commentators will use this as proof things are so good there, BUT ask a Brit, and overall they say the love their system. They know it's far from perfect, but does a good job overall, and far better than the non-system here.

And again, when you look strictly at the #s they are doing pretty well vs. a vs. the USA.

This is a basic cultural difference. I'm British. We bitch about everything, we're a dour people. It's a basic cultural trait for us to bitch even about things we like and value. We bitch about the NHS but just watch what happens to anyone who porposes we get rid of it: We shout them down and boot them out of office at the first opportunity.

Sorry, but it can be backed up and it's been done repeatedly on this board in other threads.

I'm not doing your research for you, but try googling "Europe shifts to the right".

BTW, I like the Brits NHS and am well aware of America's faults, I'm simply saying that Europe isn't code for "Heaven".

The UK has a high ratio of inequality of SES (socio-economic status), almost at par with the USA, in terms of inequality of income.

But still, the British have far better access to health care than we in the USA do.

That's because of the long years of Thatcherite rule and that Labour shifted substantially to teh right by the time they came to rule.

We do have problems here, I wouldn't pretend otherwise.

people rely on unemployment -- until it runs out and they become homeless.

In Germany's large factories, the employees have a voice on the boards of directors of their employers' companies.

Doesn't cost much to give employees a voice and a right to information.

We have problems, yes, but they're an entirely different set of problems.

Not necessarily.

I see tons of differences.

No one in this thread has suggested that the EU is some kind of happymeal-for-everyone place that hasn't go any problems. What I took from the OP is that compared to the EU, what Americans call "social security" is a sick fucking hoax.

And tell me what you want about Greece, Spain, etc. - I don't see Germany, France - or, for that matter - Poland gutting their social security systems to American levels soon, even if "austerity demands it". It's a fucking political impossibility - while in the US.... see Wisconsin and the rest. The things that are going on there are still politically taboo in "old europe" - quite a significant difference, I would think.

Honey, the things that are "going on" in Wisconsin are the

the union bashers are being recalled out of office.

Maybe you're not quite as "up" on things

here as you'd like to believe.:eyes:

it may be too late already.


Welcome to DU Democrats Ramshield,I hope you keep posting more articles like this.

I'll be posting another article tomorrow. Please look for it.

with "oh yeah? Well the EU ain't perfect either"! Responses. Which really only proves the OP's point:

"Well today for a span of at least this one Daily Kos diary, you will get to see what the American plutocrat owned media never wants you to see, and that is how Europe in particular and the world in general has come to see America as a country in decline, whose people are so badly misinformed by the media, they actually don't realize that America is the only major industrialized nation in the world that by right of law does not offer universal medical access, paid sick leave, paid maternity leave and paid annual leave."

The "Patriots" are willing foot soldiers for the Plutocrats, but most aren't even aware that this is their role. They've been trained well not to question the status quo. In fact, that's exactly what they are defending.

One needs to tame the jerking knee and make distinctions.:eyes:

eating every bite of the "US Sucks" shit sandwich.

Attempts to balance the discussion by looking as

critically at other nations as we do our own proves nothing more than that

some of us tend to objectivity more

than pavlovian responses.

Your sneering use of the word "patriot", an

obvious attempt to paint us as right wingers,

is low, of course, but also indicative of

black and white thinking.

If you seriously think long time DUers

"prove the OP's point" in being:

"people so badly misinformed by the media, they actually don't realize that America is the only major industrialized nation in the world that by right of law does not offer universal medical access, paid sick leave, paid maternity leave and paid annual leave."

I can only conclude that you're not only

rigid, but delusional.


Good bye and good luck.

Underemployed on this board. Rather than wring your hands about not finding a job, WHY NOT RUN FOR CONGRESS?

I'm series.

no one who isn't loaded with money or ready to be pre-bribed and pre-owned

by corporations like Koch Bros. can run for office!!


PS -- "Some unemployed"? We have 3 million homeless and still growing numbers.

We have 17% of the nation long term unemployed, many no longer collecting benefits --

We have 40 million Americans on food stamps!

:eyes:





The Rightwing Koch Bros. Funded the DLC --

http://www.democrats.com/node/7789

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x498414


If you knew about this, why didn't you tell us?

If you didn't know, pass it along -- !

:)

Then how does their "food stamp" program work?

and, as they note, they wouldn't do anything like food stamps which

is an obvious way to embarrass the poor!!


Read the OP -- it's quite enlightening!!

"You rock, We suck" europhiles.:eyes:

but I'd bet on it being negative.:P

about capitalism -- and nothing about commonwealths or socially responsible governing --

social values -- socialism !

The rightwing has taught the rule of lower and lower expectations based on "lesser evils"

and downward spirals -- in the richest nation in the world based on its land, ability to

tax, natural resources, animal life -- when our capitalists are destroying all of that 24/7!!


Democracy and capitalism are NOT synonymous -- they are direct opposites!

If you want true democracy you need economic democracy -- and that isn't capialism!


Capitalism is intended to move the wealthy and natural resources of a nation from the many

to the few --

Unregulated capitalism is merely organized crime!


Let's move on to more socially responsible government -- and true, let's also dump the

millionaires!!

America seems like a huge mental asylum.

Europe hasn't seemed very sane at certain points in

history either, and I don't necessarily mean long

ago history.

The Third Reich would be one such period, of course

but more recently, such as in the early to mid-nineties

when genocide was occurring in the Balkans.

We had to come in and straighten that out, too.

since Europe just sat on it's ass,

willing to let another "final solution"

take place in their area.

planning a trip to Europe this summer! B-)

Compassion, no...No....Gloating, yes.

Just make sure you don't cancel your "european vacation"

or they'll be back to sucking up to us

like they did in the mid-eighties

when American tourists took a
"temporary leave of absence":rofl:

Give it a thought.

If what you wrote wouldn't have been official US foreign policy for the last 60 years, maybe things wouldn't be so fucked up.

People who don't care kind of are the problem, methinks.

to be no direct relationship

between the strength of their opinions.

and the depth of their experience.:eyes:

Far more Americans have visited Europe

than the reverse.

to construct a more progressive society (even if their conservatives - like conservatives everywhere - never stop trying to tear down those progressive constructs? We should only listen to good ol' Americans, right?

This is a progressive blog. We know what is working for Europeans and it is something which the American Left frequently examines.

I find your apparent "outrage" at the reluctance of some here, to lap up criticism from "foreigners" curious and I believe that you and some others here, might benefit from another look at the situation.

In my opinion, MOST citizens of MOST countries feel defensive when being lectured to by foreigners, and I find this to be a natural reaction. It's like the predictable response of family members, who criticize each other, but resent criticism when it comes from "outsiders". When it comes to countries, that resentment is not simply "tribal" but rational, since the outsiders, in most cases, have little to no personal experience within the country they are critiquing, but are themselves, products of different histories, cultures, and political systems...For all the supposed "hubris" of Americans, I know of none who would be so arrogant as to "criticize" a foreign country's culture and politics directly to a member of that country.

If you honestly think that non-Americans would show greater tolerance of critiques by foreigners, particularly Americans, I invite you to go onto their boards, identify your nationality, and comment, in a mild way, virtually ANYTHING pertaining to their culture or politics....Based on personal experience, I can assure you that your comments will NOT be greeted with the benign tolerance you proscribe for Americans, but rather attacked,by more than a few,in the most hostile terms imaginable....I urge you and others here who think we are being "uniquely" defensive to try it.

For some of the reasons stated above, the Euros, by and large, cannot "show us" how to build a more progressive society. Their countries have different histories, cultures, and political systems than ours. Just as the specifics of the European systems vary from country to country, the American support system will ultimately be constructed into something appropriate to our culture and heritage.


I do not know who your intended audience is, but, again,this information about Europe is not new here. And the opinions of Europeans with regard to their opinion on our support system in the U.S. for the reasons stated above, are not helpful, motivating, or informative. At this point, especially, I'd say their irrelevant.

and welcome to DU.

In answer to your question "... why isn't the mainstream American media telling you this?", I would like to submit two quotes by two insiders who know best.


"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media."

~ William Colby, CIA Director from Sept. 1973 to Jan. 1976 under Presidents Nixon and Ford.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false."

~ William Casey, CIA Director from 1981 to 1987. (Quote from internal staff meeting notes 1981)

Casey headed up the successful presidential campaign of Ronald Reagan in 1980 and served on the transition team following the election. After Reagan took office, he named Casey to the post of Director of the CIA.

According to a 600-page report by the CIA inspector general, Frederick Hintz, the CIA under Casey was complicit in the Contras' massive narco-trafficking operation which resulted in the crack epidemic.

Welcome to DU. :kick:

Several responding to the OP point the finger at right wing. I get what they're saying, but it seems to me problems America faces run deeper than the rw/lw division suggests. Probably since its early years after becoming a country or soon after, America instituted a social system based on deeply felt notions of freedom and individual responsibility, well typified by America's strange-to-me love affair with such as Ayn Rand, the philosophy of pragmatism, etc. Individual freedom and responsibility are fine and well---I prefer my freedoms and adore self-responsibility, both of which I cultivate with dedication. But the problem in the peculiarly American version of these important life goods is America's overweening emphasis on "individual." The American dream is a carrier for individual values and represents a cultural symbol of individual aspiration. American exceptionalism itself carries a strong whiff of this curiously social ideal of the self-made individual.

But back to the several-century institution of these peculiar American ideals. America's ideals are now so deeply entrenched by so many years of law-making, policy moulding, systems making, institution structuring---by the way its justice system operates and doesn't, by the way its schools operate and don't, by the way its social safety net operates and doesn't, by the way its health care system operates and doesn't, by the way its politics is structured, its corporations, its police, its jails, its courts, its governments, its suburbias, its individual-freedom methods of transport, by the way its fiscal and banking systems work, by the decades of its suckling upon that rapacious empire premium, by the way its housing system works, now deeply tainted by the fiasco of the last several years, by its emphasis on quarterly profits, by its incredible military expenditures and economy (not a socially loving part of its society), by how it has structured its employment system with so so many poor, scared, low-paid people, by its racial and class divides, by how it has treated its labour force ... I mean, the list can go on and on. I haven't even mentioned such historical American star performers as McCarthy---a shockingly anti-social movement.

American ideals are so deeply institutionalized in so many directions in so many facets of American society, I personally don't see how America can but meet the fate, the painful implications, of what it has sowed by its centuries-long emphasis on freedom and individuality. The last time I checked, "individual" cannot even be conceived apart from "social," nor can freedom mean anything without care, at least not anything constructive. Is there truly anyone who can claim to live without love, care, support, cooperation, relatedness, empathy and concern? Where are these values in America's: military, corporations, news media, employment policies, social support network, courts, jails, etc.?

We are born social---and never not---and would literally die without care, concern and love.

I'm partly glad Obama has turned out to be the latest, and perhaps greatest, corporate-military political shill. Good homeopathic medicine to bring the disease a little closer to reckoning.

Slater's Pursuit of Loneliness. Have you ever read it?



And welcome to DU. :hi:

and nice to be here. I haven't read Slater's book but will look it up now. Pursuit of Loneliness ... ow, that hurts.

about the roots of the American exceptionalism that can be boiled down to the pursuit of the idiotic ideal of "the self-made man" who exists alone in a perpetual state of apartheid from the whole.
You're cruising in the deep there, 50000feet. Or is that the altitude from which you view the bigger picture?

the "Great Man" theory of history, and it's origins

are European, not American.

to Europe, at least, considering its history, and even it's present, according to many.

http://www.bing.com/search?q=europe+turns+to+right&form=HPDTDF&pc=HPDTDF&src=IE-SearchBox

You mention that you view America as having a "strange-to-me-love affair with freedom

and individual responsibility", so I'm curious about where you come from and what your

personal experience with America might be.

Have you ever lived here?...Have you visited?

Just curious.;-)

much less his or her actual experience in America, you are quite "opinionated" about it, aren't you?

Your enthusiasm for sharing your opinions on this country, which, you've likely never set foot in, seems in inverse proportion to your willingness to tell us about YOUR country..Why do suppose that is?..Invidious comparison?..Afraid it might invite the same level of criticism you've aimed at us?


While waiting for you to gather your,um,courage? on the matter, I need to disabuse you of a particularly erroneous notion, and that would be that that America has anything like a "love affair" with Ayn Rand.

As an American, I can assure you that most Americans have never even HEARD of Ayn Rand,let alone developed an affection for her.

She is viewed as an "extremist" by most; the few who actually do "love" her are on the Far Right, and no,they still do not comprise a large proportion of the populace.

I didn't have to look at the entire article to know that

I listened to Jimmy Carter's energy speech the other day. The man tried to tell us what was coming, but no one wants to hear the truth. Even now, 30+ years later, the average American has no clue.

:rofl:

The bigger question might be, why do we care?:eyes:

and here I thought it was a good reason to ignore it...Silly me.