5 Things Nobody Tells You About Being Poor

I have to say that the handling the problems of life that come up are infinitely more difficult because you dont have the money to deal with them.

I will never forget that experience.

I'm just curious. Don't post anything you're not comfortable with, but your post intrigues me. I'm especially curious to know how you're defining "poor" versus "upper middle" class.

In my experience, it is very difficult to truly lose one's "upper" status. So, I'd like to read more from a person who went through it.

.... but let me tell you ... A horrible divorce following years of being a "stay-at-home" did exactly that for me. Sometimes the partner with the most financial resources simply has more resources to "screw" the other partner, if they so desire.

In my case I left one state and returned to our state of origin.

I define UMC as a couple of hundred thousand dollars per year (in 1999 dollars).

I don't know what my children and I would have done without my family.

Unemployment/underemployment continued 2 years after exhausting all of my resources including retirement funds.

It happens .... there really is no protecting yourself from catastrophic life events.
I hope you are OK now

there are no mechanisms to protect you from one life event wiping you out.

It did make me glad I was a Democrat and had been on the right side of things all along. It reinforced my belief in the need for safety nets.

One might think one is doing well if you have an upper middle class salary, but all that you have can be gone pretty quickly.

I am doing much better and am on the cusp of really doing well, but it has been a rough last 9 years.

I am glad you are doing well.

I also think it is much more likely to rebound if you don't come from poverty ... we both did (in abouth the same amount of time).

I've seen it happen to several friends. It often destroys stay-at-home moms that don't quickly remarry. Even for dual income couples, I've seen huge setbacks. High legal bills, the cost of setting up an entirely new household. These things often compound with other nasty stuff like having to do that on borrowed, high interest money or liquidating retirement savings and paying big tax penalties.

In a way, money is a bit like the game shoots and ladders. The more money you accumulate, the more ladders appear. The more debt you have, the more shoots appear. It can snowball either way.

The best advice I ever got was from a friend's dad who sat me down and showed me how compound interest works. He showed me that if I saved $400/month for 40 years and earned 7%, it grow to about $1,000,000. On the other hand, if I borrowed money, the forces of compounding would work against me. The difference between saving a bit each month or borrowing a bit each month might not seem like much at the time, but the effects would be staggeringly different.

Often with Divorce (or severe medical problems, or long term job loss, or any major financial calamity), it throws people from being able to enjoy the benefits of compounding assets to suffering the consequences of compounding debts.

you got that right.

that's why all the crap about Social Security running out of money is just that, crap. If you look at how much a person has been taxed for SS over their working lives, it does not look like much compared to the benefits they'll receive. But if you calculate what that taxed amount has become earning a conservative interest rate compounded over the years, its far more than people ever get back.

on divorce. It is devastating in a multitude of ways. And when coupled with health issues, can take an individual from financial stbility to financial ruin in no time.

I was very comfortable as part of a dual income family and admit to not having to worry at all about money at one point in my life. Then my husband of 25 years whom I had helped through professional school and who was making money hand over fist as a result, decided he wanted to be free to chase young skirts again!

While I had some resources (and thankfully my father and sister), the divorce sent me into a financial tailspin for a couple of years. I seriously came to have a better understanding of spousal homicide in the Betty Broderick mode.

Now I tell every dreamy eyed young woman on the cusp of marriage to learn about money and save some for that rainy day (including retirement). I never expected to be abandoned after a 30-year relationship (5 dating and 25 wed) nor did I have the expectation that I would have to work until I'm 70 or beyond because of the impact of the divorce and the current economy.

You have a lot of resources, like functioning cars, freezers and other food storage space, some savings, all your teeth, connections that can lead to finding work again, knowledge about what bureaucratic functionaries maintaining what safety nets we have left expect you to do and say, etc.

Still, there may be real trouble if these resources start running out before you get back on a middle class job track again.

divorce followed by bankruptcy(caused by the divorce)and then the company you work for deciding they are leaving the state.Divorce is a racquet in this country if you have some assets.But to be honest I could write an essay on the good things about being poor.I went from $75,000 a year as a single person after the divorce to $14,000 a year now.With bad credit it is hard to live in this great country.Credit is great now just no money.But I am happy.

Where have you been and where are you living? Think major job loss, divorce and so on.

I am now going the other way but I know how to live poor. I have parttime jobs to help my pension and as long as I can move I will work. Its fun and not so hard where I do work so it helps. ANyone who bullshits about being poor and how to get out of it is full of shit. May they be poor and hurting so they can get it.

at 27, I guess it's still possible it could change, but... I think the limit of what I can hope to achieve is getting my head above water. I don't think I'll ever not be struggling.

and can carry $200K of debt without a fee.

but, you know, newtie & folks like him *deserve* it.

They are good "Christians" and really care for their fellow man.Newt,Santorum,John Edwards,Dick Morris,Rush Limbaugh ,O'Reilly Cheney etc etc................are all so Christ like it is chilling.I do give George Bush the Younger credit for his aid to Africa for aids.I also give all the credit in the world to a real Christian,Jimmy Carter.

it should warrant its own thread and be very informative.

Having a lot of money is better. If you are poor no one is happy to see you. If you are rich most people kiss your ass. Getting your ass kissed all the time is nice.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Having my ass kissed is a painful experience. The most painful issue for me is when I am passing by janitors and maids and have them being nervously ready to avert their eyes. They are so used to being unseen that they are visibly stunned to have a person look them in the eyes and say hello and wish them well. You enjoy the ass kissing, don't forget to leave good tips for the people that serve you. They can make good use of the money and it won't make a difference to your well being.

to have a person look them in the eyes and say hello and wish them well"

I have noticed that with the cleaning crew at my job. I treat them as equals- after all, I perform a job to make my company operate smoothly, and so do they. It is really easy to say a few civil words to a person to make them feel appreciated, but those few words go a long way IMO. We are all valuable.

The head custodian at my workplace, who runs the place like a Swiss watch, insists on being called by his first name even by students. I normally respect people's wishes to be called whatever they want to be called, but that is wrong, more for the students than for him.

we call that nouveau riche. This applies to most people who feel they are entitled to the best of everything and are rude to boot. The only charity they give to is themselves, and the homeless and poor are ignored and ridiculed. If this describes you, why are you here on DU? This is certainly a republican trait. Not that you aren't welcome here, but don't expect any ass kissing.

I think he's just trying to make a point that having money, and the things that come with it, is better than being poor, and not having those things. Being poor sucks. I know. Having gotten laid off four years ago, and only being able to scrape by occasional temp jobs, I've been experiencing being ignored and ridiculed first-hand, although not to the extent of those who have been in long-term poverty. The next person who tells me to "Get a job!" better run like hell after they say it. They wouldn't last an hour in the job I have been working this and the past two summers. And, I would love to have my ass kissed. However, the only ones I want kissing it are the motherfuckers who put me here.

but I've never really like having my ass kissed, as I interpret it. I like being served by well-paid professionals doing their jobs in a professional manner. I particularly appreciate professional service in a restaurant (not that it happens often where I live), and I overtip in paroxysms of gratitude when I get it.

I struggle now financially but I'm middle class.

However, George Bernard Shaw said it best when he said that "the chill of poverty never leaves your bones." It's never left mine, anyway.

They lived through the Depression. Or, the First Depression.

They died before I could have any 'deep' talks with them about it, but my other family will tell me about that.

But you learn to be resourceful and live longer and better than someone who never did. It took me four years of sometimes not eating to get back to where I am. When you don't eat your mind goes. You can't even remember your name. I feel more empathy than I can handle for our country and this world right now.

You get obsessed about food. It's all you think about. You have dreams about it.

That never really leaves you.

When I was a single mom, I saved uneaten food off of patron's plates at the restaurant I waited tables at. It was usually the only food I had. Days without work meant not only a lack of income but an empty dinner plate.

its crammed. So is my freezer. If things go south I can eat well. You are entirely right. You never get over it.

I remember shivering under 3 blankets, being able to see my breath, trying to forget how freezing it was so I could get enough sleep to function in school the next day...

no, it doesn't. Even once you are somewhat comfortable, the fear that you may go back is always present. That being said, far too many of our citizens are currently living under the "chill of poverty".

I frequently think: "what would we do, if we didn't have the money to throw at this problem?"

Some stuff is pretty inconsequential, but other stuff isn't. Cars, refrigerators, health issues that won't 'just go away'...

A lot of people living with those problems these days.
:(

that is what my experience (explained up thread) taught me.

... at cracked. This is another good one.

more "Cracked" articles on here. I think it's funny when you go to a Youtube video and the first comment you see is "F'n Cracked."

I was much more cash-poor during the 80s, than I am now, living right on the very edge of being considered officially in poverty, but I did not have any unpaid debts, and was of course much younger and healthier. I passed the test necessary to become an insurance agent in my state during the middle-80s, and tried to sell group major medical and dental to small businesses, "tried" being the keyword, as when making cold-calls, somehow 99% of those businesses claimed that they had full BCBS coverage when I asked about their present health insurance provider....heh!!

The irony of it all, was that I could not even afford to insure myself through the health insurance provider whom I was selling for.

I worked entirely upon commission, and w/o the use of a computer, I had to use an an old electronic typewriter to present proposals to the business owners. I was modestly successful at making appointments, but not at closing the "deal", as the company that I was selling for was extremely selective about what percentage of each businesses' employees and their family members' pre-existing conditions were acceptable w/o rejecting and declining to insure ALL of them. All that work, collecting applications and averaging abort a half-dozen appointments with each business, prior to submission and then being rejected and no-sale!!! Gave it up in frustration a after about year and a half of working 60-80 hours a week with very, very little income and only about a dozen successful sales. I had only one old suit to wear, and always had barely enough money to afford the gas in my car to travel to the business appointments that I had made.

Had a lot of friends who lost their houses and everything they owned during that period. I was "lucky", enough that I didn't have anything to lose or I certainly would have lost it.

And if you don't mind me asking, when you were in the health insurance business did you ever get the feeling like you may have had more success at closing the "deal", if you had some type of kickback scheme in place to grease the palms of the people who were declining your offers?

If you don't want to say I understand.

Don

more insurance companies to sell for that were not so "fussy" about whom they would insure. But it was of course, impossible to know what the amount or percentage of a businesses' employees whose family members had disabilities, illnesses, pre-existing conditions, and/or ongoing pregnancies that would be sufficient to become rejected. It wasn't like I could create my "own" applications for insurance to find out beforehand what health insurer would accept them, and which one I could insure them through before I gave them official applications that each health insurer would only accept and use.

Greasing anyone's palms, to "encourage" them into becoming my clients wasn't really an option I could use.

we had some stuff and all the food we could eat ... bills got paid on time .... but not alot of extras ...
we were happy for what we had .... I left the farm and have done ok for my family and me .... not rich
but ok .... which is were I believe most people want to be .....

"we had some stuff and all the food we could eat ... bills got paid on time .... but not alot of extras ..."

We consider ourselves LUCKY.
Less IS More

angel sister back what she lent me. One death in the family and a 2/3 cut in income can destroy any life you have going on. It can happen in the wink of an eye without warning and then its the hard scramble, the doing without and hanging on until you get your footing again. It's hell.

You had food, bills paid on time....what is poor about that? Poor is when you don't have good food, or any food....and a lot more. You weren't eating from trash....

Sheesh...

you had property and everything you needed, do you understand that by definition of poverty, a poor person does NOT have basic needs?

a person who does not have a lot of extras is middle class

a poor person doesn't have basic NEEDS

read the article again, the man is not talking about extras, he is talking about being able to buy basic transportation to get to work for example -- he is not talking about owning his own land/farm and being able to hop on the tractor and grow his own food if times get tough, owning his own land, much less good farmland, tractor, etc. is a dream that can never come true for the poor...most farms these days are hobbies owned by the very rich, at least around here

if you can buy "a lot" of extras you're rich, if you have to pick and choose what extras you buy because it's impossible to buy "a lot," you're middle class

That's about the only clothing that I purchase new. My budget is determined by my Social Security check, and it's been years - literally - since I've been in our local mall; no point in going there with empty pockets.

I have this fantasy where I'm attending some red-carpet event. Joan Rivers asks me "Who are you wearing?", and she faints when I tell her "Goodwill". . .


-

I refuse to go to malls.

or that they should pay less taxes.

laying on the ground delirious from hunger for not eating for 3 days straight (prior "meals" were only one a day and just raman at that)

selling flowers on street corners for money. and having Sam Kenison (yes, that Sam Kenison) ask me, "do you know who I am?" because I didn't fawn all over him. I responded, Yes, but that doesn't feed me. He bought the cheapest flowers and peeled out in his trans-am.

giving blood for money. 15 bucks for a pint. But I was so malnourished, that I could only fill half a pint and puked because my body couldn't take the stress.

I won't even go into the amusing antics of dealing with a student loan when the bank finally hunted me down and found me in a homeless shelter.

Being poor sucks. more repukes need to feel that kind of pain.

what that feels like, to be hungry and see people eating food all around you. They would never bullshit again.

ETA: What did the bank try to pull when they found you in a shelter?

Fuck student loans. They're a racket. Once I have a real job, I'm going to keep on living the same lifestyle I did while I was borrowing the money until I have them paid off. I have very low expectations and I despise being in debt.

I assume (hope) you're on a decent footing now?

The money didn't do him much good, did it.

Good that you're still here, right? :-)

And those who are not poor, are often the people that are judging you at your job. Since they happen to be very RW, you have to suppress every liberal tendency in your body.

One of my first jobs, at the March of Dimes in Chicago, I had my winter coat festooned with Nixon buttons every morning when I arrived, and then in the elevator going home at night, I'd be replacing them with the Peace buttons. (Often I was the last one out of the office at night.)

That way no one suspected that I ever used the 800 phone lines to co-ordinate Chicago peace rallies with other peace groups. On the March of Dime's dime, so to speak.

campaigned on it in 1968 :)

...Nixon would be considered so liberal the teabaggers would be screaming he was a communist.

A lot of people forget that one.

You just sit back, watch TV, eat caviar and filet mignon, collect those hefty checks, and you never, ever have to go to work or do anything. Just take it easy and enjoy the good life. In fact, the minute you sign up for welfare, they deliver a brand new Cadillac right to your door along with the first check. It's ALLLLLLLLL Easy Street, brother. And have you seen that Section 8 housing? Suh-wank-key!!!

Just ask any Republican who's never been poor. They'll tell you all about it.

(DISCLAIMER: The above post has been enhanced for the sarcasm-impaired)

The difficulty increases exponentially, as you lose resources.

though I know my experiences do not compare to some. Missing meals afew times per week, wondering why our lights and water took turns in not working. One of the best memories I have of back then was goverment cheese. I'm not sure if it was good or I was just starving, but I remember us ripping open the brown cardboard box and loving every crum of it. I think standing in line for that cheese probably saved us. Now I'm in my 30's.. and I probably qualify as middle class, though I still hate to spend money due to childhood experiences.. just in case I guess.

cheese' triggered some of my own of getting government commodities during the early- to mid 70s, remembering specifically the peanut butter (good) and instant mashed potatoes (horrible). We were dairy farmers but so poor we still qualified for commodities. Ah, American capitalism, what wonderous ironies thou produces.

In addition to the stigma poverty places on children, poverty places enormous streses upon the parents also. Not a good scene.

Thought not having any debt was good, but it's actually not (for credit purposes).

My credit reports used to come with 3 strikes against me, all of which were the exact same thing (lack of credit) listed in 3 different ways.

(although debt found its way into my life, since paid off... free money for Bank of America)

and without any credit history, for a lot of aspects of life and business, it's like I don't exist

You have to have credit history (which means some kind of debt) to rent a car, etc. Many things are hard to do without it.

cycle of our system of economic manipulation, without an existing credit history, I'm not sure how I'll ever be able to start a credit history.

If you want one, go for something like a gas card, a Target credit card, something like that. Charge a little every month and pay it off. After 6 months or so you will start to exist!

For me it was one place that gave me a credit card, starting with a really low limit, and I've never had another.

I hate credit cards and for years I've refused to have one. If I wanted something I saved my money and purchased it in cash. This includes vehicles, clothes, appliances, etc. Now, I feel as though I am forced to have a credit card or else I will be turned down for any number of things, including jobs.

Why jobs? Because some future employers run credit checks. My checks always come back with a lower score, even though I always pay my bills on time. Why? Because I don't have a line of credit.

I don't think it's right or fair that I have to pay someone for the honor of using MY MONEY, yet I'm penalized for being a frugal person.

I use one credit card and pay in full each month. The credit card company gives me 2% cash back automatically deposited into my bank account. I charge groceries, gas, drugstore stuff, etc. I just charged my $1000 a year flood insurance, which is a new feature of that.

Does this save me money? yes. Does it cost someone else money? yes. Am I about to throw away 2%? no. And if I ever need credit, like in a financial disaster, I have it.

I don't need to use their money but I feel as if I'm almost forced to in order to have a decent credit score.

I don't want a cc but without one my score is lower. I pay my bills on time and I save for what I want to buy but still feel as though I'm penalized for not borrowing money.

Whatever happened to "cash is king"?

and I agree with you... but what can I do? The only thing I can do about it is make sure I pay my bill off every month so they never make a cent off me.

there need to be new regulations about exactly how a credit score is computed. People who pay on time and save money are penalized for not spending.

about the whole process. The credit agencies have a lot of control over our lives and we have to beg and ask them to tell us what they have on us? That's BS...

I monitor my credit score but with what I do on a daily basis it should be enough. I don't buy things I can't afford, I pay on time, I save my money.

This is something I don't understand about this new breed of Republicans. I've always thought of them as "fiscally conservative", something which I can respect in small doses. This breed out there now is anything but and it frightens me. They allow businesses like this to walk all over them and then beg for more. This behavior ruins it for people like myself who do their damnedest to live within their means and keep their noses clean of all the poor credit scams.

I'm being punished for others problems.

I think it was the Ed Schultz show, but someone was filling in for him. May have been a rerun, but the guy said something like "Most Republicans are not rich enough to be Republican." That cracked me up. Just imagine saying that to someone!

And welcome to DU! :hi:

I wasn't drunk, just strung out on heroin.

And I got lucky. I haven't worked for maybe 30 years.

Sonoman

I never had to go to a loan shark, but I think even our loan sharks charge less.

Here's how bank fuckage for being short of money works here:

Nearly all checking accounts come with a limit (say, the equivalent of US$ -1,000 or -2,000) and a rate. Whenever you let your account go into the negative, you get charged by day. The monthly rate is a bit under 10%. So if you paid $200 for that tire and tow, and only got to deposit the money a day later, you're out of $8, tops. (I'm not sure if they count only business days or all days, so spanning a weekend may or may not make a difference.) Debit card transactions just don't go through if you're going to hit the negative limit. Checks do bounce if you hit the limit, and you get charged for that.

Now, it's the credit card rates are truly monstrous here. But paying the bill in full every month and not going into debt isn't held against you.

I wasn't 100% sure our system was more benign, but now I am.

That $35 fee they list there per item... it's actually per item, PER DAY. This happened to me when the ATM showed the wrong amount while I was waiting on a transaction, and by the time I even heard about it, I owed the bank $600. Oh, and calling them and explaining the situation... yeah, that doesn't work.

Greetings from Argentina (where credit card rates are also crazy and the old military dictatorship left us with a 21% VAT!)

I like the majority of his articles, especially the one about quitting smoking.

Gallows humor, I guess. It beats crying. The author is spot on. What he said is exactly the way I have experienced it. I live in the "Catch-22 poverty fuck gauntlet" he speaks of. Waitress, overdrawn, bad back, love to move, but.... <sigh>

Hey... he's got a writing job. Maybe they can use two Cheeses.

things like not being able to see a dentist. Not being able to take care of one's teeth lead to one not being pretty, and not being able to get a job. Poor health because of bad diet. If one is a child, poor development and a lifetime of problems due to poverty caused poor nutrition. If you have no money your educational resources are limited...the list goes on and on.

but when you are poor, it ain't all that funny! grrr

working poor. There isn't anything wrong with that as long as they are honest.

I was raised by a fairly prosperous upper middle class family. I think my father earned an upper middle class income, but we lived much leaner because he grew up in the depression.

When I got out of college, I was not particularly driven. I frittered away several years during which I moved out on my own and slowly watched my capital base disappear. I earned a small, irregular income. It seemed to be enough at first, but then stuff started to go wrong. My car broke down and I put the repairs on my credit card. I charged a bit more than I made. I didn't feel like I was going crazy buying stuff, but I always bought a bit more than I brought in. After a couple of years, I realized that I had dug myself a nasty hole. I spent the next several years climbing out. That experience - practically not dating, no eating out, no car (in a non-transit friendly city), often buying food based on calories per dollar - changed my perspective. Now I feel very fortunate to have learned my lesson in my mid 20s and have benefited from it ever since.

I learned a lot from those years. I learned that a lot of stuff that people think is important isn't. I learned how important it was to save money for emergencies. I learned a lot of self discipline. I wouldn't want to repeat those years, but I think they were at least as important to my later successes as were my years in college.

not trying to be sarcastic, but a kid with a rich family playing at struggle is not the same thing as a genuine poor person w. no fallback

as another person pointed out, when you're poor, you don't get your teeth fixed as a kid and that's it, the course of your life is set, or mine was, you can't represent, you're not "pretty," there is no decent job you will be hired to do if you are not prepared to do something extra and by extra i don't mean the metaphorical assfucking of the cracked article but the real deal...for men (some men) poverty may be a game, it is never a game for women

a person w. basic common sense doesn't NEED to be poor to figure out that being poor is terrible, if you needed that "lesson," what can i say to you? a serious person doesn't need a fucking lesson, they have eyes and a brain in their head, however just because they notice that poverty is terrible, it doesn't mean that they will ever get a chance to get away from it

everyone struggles a bit the first few years after college but it is a game for those from upper class backgrounds who have the right "look" -- they are just paying "dues" but know they will ultimately have opportunity handed to them on a plate --

for the rest all the bullshit about struggle is just that, bullshit, struggle doesn't lead to anything except more struggle, bad teeth leads to more bad teeth, bad health to more bad health

Not having the money to visit a dentist and being from the wrong side of the tracks are not damaging as you imply. I will come off badly, but frankly I don't give a shit. I had all of the elements that you listed working against me. I college, I lived in a slum and could not afford to buy even the poor quality food sold there. I went hungry many nights with those nights becoming hungry days. My clothes were old with everything that I owned fitting into part of a small cardboard shipping box. But I did not give it, I kept fighting every day without any assurance that life would get better. I found out that fighting gives one a chance of ultimately seeing light, giving in and viewing the world as a total loss just dooms. I want to end what I write with something that I witnessed while living in the slum with other poor students and permanent residents. There was a house that was in bad condition. A family moved into it. By observing I saw they were no better off than the other residents in the slum. As time went on, I noticed that family improving their home and yard. Their house looked strange at times because their sanding or peeling paint stopped when their funds for sandpaper ran out. Their yard went from thrashed to raked with patches of green that stopped when they ran out of money to buy grass seed. But they did not give up. Their house ended up not a mansion but painted. Their yard was small but had uniform grass. Their life was rough, but they did not give in.

their rent went up.
Am I right?

I rented a crappy old house with (what was unknown at time of rental) a nasty bug problem. I paid for multiple trips from the exterminator until the problem disappeared. I tore up all the urine-soaked carpets and pads and refinished the wood floors underneath. (They were badly stained so I scrubbed, sanded, primed, painted, and sealed.) I patched the holes in the walls and ceiling, repainted everything, repaired baseboards, patched screens, sanded and painted the house and porch. I raked out all the gravel, trash and glass out of the yard. I brought back all the old flowers that were dormant and planted more, along with a couple of fruit trees. I seeded the yard, I started a beautiful veggie garden, I had herb, and I had a hummingbird garden. Within two years the beaten up old house went from looking run down and on the verge of being condemned to being a sweet old house that you imagine would be found in a well cared-for old neighborhood.

The landlord raised my rent several hundreds of dollars and then tried to take me to court because I didn't leave his property the way I found it. (I won, btw. I brought with me the before and after pics, along with receipts for everything.)

No good deed goes unpunished, so they say.

The landlord used to complain about the place all the time. He called it a "money pit" and said he wished he'd never been willed the place. (He inherited it and a few other places.)

I called him one day two years after I'd moved in and asked him about possibly selling the place. He was interested and was willing to use the two years as a down payment. It was his new wife who decided that was a bad idea and immediately raised the rent after letting herself in without my permission and looking around. How did I find out? She left a note stating that I owed back rent-she tried to make the increase retroactive.

but he wasn't the nicest man around. None of his properties were up to snuff.

I found out later that someone else had worked on their home and his wife did the same to them.

It was a family owned building (8 siblings) but only the one brother took care of it.
My friend was renting from him and was planning on buying it.
they had an agreement that for 6 months rent would be low.
the bank had already cleared the check to buy the place, but because of assorted bad luck my friend has had in the past, he had to wait a year.

the year was almost up, and one of the sisters had a rod up her ass and demanded the back rent or for my friend to move out.

My friend had done alot of work on the house.

Mind you there were like 2 months to go, and he was going to BUY THE HOUSE FLAT OUT (well mortgage)!!!

So the sister and the other siblings (none of whom LIVED in MN, but in rather nicer areas, one came from Bel Air) came out to bitch at him and FORCED him to take my friend to court to evict him.

In the end my friend was evicted, but was allowed a month grace to finish a project and to move out, because the one (insert gender-based insult here) sister had to speak up. The judge was so fed up with her constant BS, that he gave the grace and denied the back rent request.

Point being her greed cost them all the sale of that house.

it laid empty for nearly 2 years, until it was bought and gutted.

My friend found another place to live, and I was extremely grateful to him for letting me room there for the winter, but that's another story.

His current land lord, is so happy with him, he has offered to make all previous rent go towards the cost of selling the house to my friend. he's a very good tenant, and always pays on time.

Maybe sometimes a good deed doesnt go punished, but rewarded... but god damn it's rare!

Unfortunately, in the world I lived in then and now, if they rented their rent may have gone up, if they owned their property taxes went up. Even as they were doing society a service by making blighted property respectable.

:kick:

Higher rent, oftentimes doing laundry in a laundromat, high interest rates, gas guzzling beater car (if you're lucky enough to have one), having to pay for health care if not insured. Etc.

Between my wife and I, our expensive Rx drugs and doctor office visits eat up about a third of our monthly income. I am on Medicare, but can't afford Part D b/c my wife is now long unemployed, (4 years) and she suffers from fibromyalgia, and has spinal stenosis/arthritis, she has NO insurance, and her monthly doctor bills and RX meds eat up more than the amount of money I would need to pay the premiums for Part D. We are always flat broke before the end of EVERY month, ever since I began to receive SSD over four years ago. We both REALLY need to see a dentist, but no way can we afford to, toothaches or not...


MY spouse applied for Medicaid last fall, at our county's DHS offices, and was summarily rejected, b/c my gross annual disability income exceeds the maximum allowed by our state to qualify, but it is only over by around a mere $300.00!! She also applied for SSD last fall, but recently received a rejection letter from SS, partly b/c we simply can't afford to have expensive tests done by specialists, such as by neurologists, or an MRI scan as evidence of disability. She only has the backing for her disability by our longtime family physician who is a DO. We ARE going to appeal, however, and I finished her appeal forms online a few weeks ago, and we will also need to hire a disability attorney as well, to assist us with her appeal.

I hope that some parts of the country do still have such things.

You do not 'hire' the attorney as their fee is paid by SS, or it was at one time. I found a very good disability attorney, met w/ her, in her office, once, did most of our communication over the phone. I finally got disability because of she knew the system. It is fucked up but after five years, I won the appeal.

I could spend all day there. They have about 4 or 5 articles on the bottom of every page and I'll see 2 or 3 I really want to read so I start on one planning to go back to look at the other. Problem is at the bottom of the next article I'm reading, I see 4 or 5 links with 2 or 3 articles I want to read. So I end up reading those and it becomes a cycle.

Article makes excellent points though. So true with everything.

It really sucks to go the the grocery store with your kids and have to put food back because you don't have enough money. Everything is increasing in price and the gas prices suck too. Then you cannot afford to buy larger more economically sized packages of stuff, so you are fucked there too. I keep hoping things will get back to like it was when Clinton was in, we all had jobs, but I won't hold my breath.

or hasn't been there recently. Sharing this on Facebook - a lot of my friends will be able to relate.

One paid for the rent and childcare; the other two bought food and clothing. It wasn't a lot of fun.

5 things about being poor

1. More than likely you parents were poor. It's a vicious cycle.

2. Your vote and your voice counts only a little

3. You have more than likely have been mistreated, mishandled, disrespected

4. More than likely you are obesed. Healthier foods are far more expensive.

5. More than likely you will leave here poor.

My mom was single from the time I was five. She died when I was eight and I went to live with my father, an upper middle class jerk, then when I was 13, I divorced him and the stepmonster and went to live with my grandparent's in the South, fixed income and lived in a trailer. I ended up getting my bachelors degree in nursing with much government help ( yeah, pre Reagan).

I'm currently polyamorous and a socialist so we have three incomes but they get dropped off at the door and we each have a fixed stipend. Most of mine gets spent handing out ten dollar bills to people on street corners and other such things. I don't care for this society much and I spend as much time as possible staying out of it. I put on my urban camouflage for work, but otherwise, I've dropped out. I don't see how one can stay sane in such an insane society.

... in a poor family going to school with mostly "rich" kids. It affected my outlook on everything and it is the main reason I am a "Democrat", whatever that means any more.

I'm not poor any more because when I was young I decided I was not going to live that way. And I resent the attitude that some have about the poor, that they are lazy or whatever, because it is only the case sometimes, probably not even most of the time. Certainly no more often than the entitlement attitude the rich kids carried around.

I started noticing 15 years ago or so that the deck is stacked against the poor more and more and more in this country. If you are poor, you pay more for banking, loans, dang near everything. The "system", in the name of risk amelioration, has stuck it to the poor so thoroughly I wonder if I could have crawled out of that state if everything was that way back in the 70s.

We are reaching the endpoint of this system. The monied interests have pretty much killed the golden goose. They seem to think they can live without the poor and middle classes, that they can sell their crap in China and India. They are in for a rude awakening, the governments of China and India are going to take care of their people much more carefully than our government has us.

most other countries. Those governments protect their citizens first. Corporations that operate in those countries will find themselves setting up daycare for worker's children, or paying for worker transportation. Corporations won't be able to welsh out on paying their fair share of taxes. The USA golden goose is not dead, but is limping badly. The very corporations that were nurtured to world powers by that goose now decry it as they assume that can do just as well in other nations. Corporations are in for an education, as you stated, they won't be allowed to rape and pillage the people of nations like China and India then abandon them.

.... but they are NOT going to open their markets to American products, they have already proven that in abundance.

They are going to put their own poor to work making the product they need, they don't need America at all.

SONG: DISPARITY BY DESIGN written and performed by RISE AGAINST

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1F0Fmuf-S54

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Being poor is like a game of poker where if you lose, the other players get to fuck you. And if you win, the dealer fucks you.

A bunch of you reading this are among the 45 million "working poor" in America, and if you're not, you know somebody who is. Like me.

I'm not blaming anybody but myself for getting into this situation (I was drunk for two straight decades) and I'm not asking for anybody's sympathy. What I am saying is that people are quick to tell you to pick yourself up by your bootstraps and just stop being poor. What they don't understand is the series of intricate financial traps that makes that incredibly difficult.

If you're not poor, that's awesome. I'm not mad at you, or jealous. Hopefully you'll never find out that ...

but it was a lot easier then to fix that situation...jobs were much more readily available as were educational options at a reasonable cost. I was lucky, I'd hate to have to go back to it.

I have lived it. The bank will charge you a $35 fee for every time you overdraw. However, it is true you can call them up and get it reversed. I have been able to do that a couple times.

You can't go to the dentist even if your teeth hurt when you run out of your insurance, and the insurance is not very much coverage either, it might cover you for $1000 a year. If you have a major issue that money gets used up quickly.

You have to buy your own health insurance, and it is very, very expensive. Then you can no longer afford it and have to let it go. If I didn't have a good friend who helps me out financially when I need it and is generous I would have been in a very bad way a few times. Homeless for sure. I can't imagine what someone without that kind of support has to go through.

And as the article states, it is a circle made out of traps. One major financial emergency can break you, and you are just screwed. And then you have major assholes like Republicans who think being poor is living the high life with government benefits when they are clueless. You can get a little help but its at a subsistence level only.

That said, I know being poor here is a walk in the park compared to some other third world countries. I have a computer, tv, satellite television, cell phone, I can go to movies occasionally, I don't starve, etc.

Still, being poor sucks in America, and the article is spot on.

Margaret was a 2nd wife in Somalia and when the wars came, she and her three children were "let go" by the father of her kids. Her children were slaughtered and she barely escaped with her own life after spending years in the forest. In the refugee came where she lived, she was repeatedly raped. Margaret converted to Christianity and when she came to America, she was sponsored by a church, she barely knew English, she was an immigrant and while she is hard working, she could not make enough to pay the rent. Margaret wound up on the street for 2 years while working, and contracted the non-curable TB from the Christian women's homeless shelter where she stayed.

Yet I have never met a prouder American than Margaret, nor a kinder more generous person. She is a devout Catholic who goes to church every day, yet seeks her Muslim roots within her community of fellow Somalians and works with teens and art (music, and painting) as a volunteer, nowadays. While she has a deep faith, Margaret never proselytizes because she says she came to know God within her old faith Who led her to the path she is on today and she knows God's plan is not the same for everyone.

We often march together for social justice, Margaret and I. I cry amid the hugs and cries of recognition every time we meet because I find so much courage and energy from her. Most of all Margaret possesses a deep goodness you rarely find, where there is a joy about being alive, true non-judgement, and a genuine curiosity about who you are.

One time while marching at my state capitol with Margaret, I told her just what you say ~ that the poor in America must be a lot easier than where she came from, and did she think this was so? She surprised me with her answer.

Margaret told me that the poor in Somalia actually have it a lot better than we do here as far as finding a way to survive. She said our society is so dependent on things you have to pay for in order to survive that we cannot have what so many in the world take for granted as "free". She said when you have no home in Somalia (and S America, Asia and other places), "You simply go to the forest and find peoples who have lived that way since the beginning of time. There you will learn how to make your own shelter, find and share food and make lifelong family and friends."

"Here in America, if you tried to go into the forest, you would surely be arrested or shot since the indigenous peoples who knew how to live that way have been chased off their lands and forced to live where they have to pay for all their needs too, so they cannot teach you how to live there anymore. If you tried to build a fire in a city park here so you could stay warm or cook, you would be arrested, and forget about sleeping under a tree!"

I have thought a lot about what Margaret said about being poor in America. Other peoples see the Earth as God's it is not theirs, but it is a place God made so they could live. I now see so much of "This is mine, it is *not* yours (or God's), and even if I live on acres of forest, I will shoot you if you even TRY to live or find shelter and food there!" Even our government who is supposedly "the people" will never allow this kind of survival.

Poverty is an institution, as I often write. It is based on racism, sexism (including LGBTQ), ageism and classism. It is not a choice. If you had been a drunk and rich, you would simply die of cirrhosis and nobody would blame you for making bad "choices" about your living conditions. Poverty is based on resources where a few have everything and mete out the crumbs to the rest of us and the upper classes (including the middle class) live off the backs of the poor depending on their cheap labor, their forced "fees", their taxes (yes the poor pay a much higher proportion of taxes in order that the upper classes do not pay as much), which is why it remains as an institution.

Hope this gives some insight to our culture and how it perpetuates poverty. Thank you Margaret, I am so much richer in my heart because I met you!

Cat in Seattle

Other than being briefly broke at 40 due to a divorce, I've managed to stay afloat most of my life. It's taken a lot of hard work.

as the mail room of a large company. That was all my poorly educated, common laborer parents had as an address. I was delivered by a midwife that had no medical training, she was all my parents could afford. My parents took me, their newborn back to a worker shanty. I have lived most of my life poor, even as now I am likely upper middle class in earnings and assets, but I don't know. I love my work and have loved to work my whole life, even with crap jobs and even more crap bosses. For me having a flinty toughness and determination that was horned from my birth through my struggles to pay for my college education has been, what I feel, is the hallmark of why I move forward, even in the face of what sometimes looks like difficult odds. But most of all, I owe what I have to my parents. My parents could have accepted that they were poor and went into despair, but they awoke everyday to work their behinds off on physically demanding jobs that they got paid little to nothing for doing. But one value that they instilled in me was that I would have a better life. Their sacrifice and belief in me is something that I will never forget. My parents were lifelong democrats, as I am. They worshiped FDR and Jack Kennedy as deeply as they worshiped God and Jesus Christ. Even though poorly educated, they were always able to figure out republican lies and teach us, their children, of what was true.

:eyes:

:nuke:

But thank you for upholding the long-standing tradition on DU of casting anything a person writes in the worst conceivable light.

...of implying, and then saying "I didn't say that."

Believe me, it isn't. But if cornered animals don't learn to fight back, they keep getting cornered.

I'm not understanding this article. Most of the things are not about being poor, they're about being stupid. And stupid DOES NOT EQUAL poor! Unfortunately some people think that.

Being poor does not mean you shouldn't keep track of your money. I have to pay $35 per bounced check now, and it was less back in my poor days, but I still had paid it. I tried to avoid it then and I do now. I never used paycheck cashing services, because I knew they were a rip-off. Being poor doesn't make you have to use them. Just have a checking account and keep track of your money.

Credit is not hard to get when your poor. Pay your electric bill on time, and get a collatoralized credit card with $100 limit, and use it.

Frankly, I grew tired of being poor, and faced up to that. For me, drinking and smoking wasn't contributing to changing that, so I stopped. After years of working for ass-hats I started my own business, worked 16 hour days until it started paying off. Now it is and we're wealthy.

By the way, people don't treat me differently (no one kisses my ass) and I'm not any happier. If anything, I'm more stressed out. And I can't roll one to relieve it anymore.

But the big point for me it. there IS a way out. But it's completely about you, and no one will help you.

It this the fabled "bootstrap" argument? Looking back on it I think that it is. And yes, it could only happen in America.

But you are right. I am not rich. But in earnings and assets I am most likely in the upper 20% of american society, if not somewhat wealthier. My parents worked hard and nurtured me as a child, even as they were dirt poor. As an adult, I made and still make hard choices about conduct and issues like living up to obligations, even when I stand to get hammered. Life often presents us with forks in our journey, we have to make decisions at each one. But unlike some unknown journey, we have information that allows us to weigh the merits of taking one of the forks versus the other. As a college student and young adult, I made the decision to study and work, often into the early morning while my peers partied and slept. Good fortune does not happen by accident, we have to pay a price for it. And if one is disciplined and determined, yes, one will occasionally get screwed by the evil, but those people can't prevent ultimate breakthroughs.

As I write over and over: Poverty is an institution based on racism, sexism (including LGBTQ), ageism and classism. It is kept in place because all upper classes benefit from this class due to the cheap labor it produces and the extra costs it takes to BE poor, including taxes which are much higher proportionately than any other class in all states, which keeps taxes down for the upper classes. Poverty is *not* about "choice" because you can be a drug addict and Paris Hilton yet nobody is going to blame her for it as they do with those in poverty.

Yet Paris Hilton is one of the biggest welfare queens around living off the taxes that low income families pay at a far greater sacrifice. On their dime she can fly around in her private jet, live in her mansions, and drink bottles of wine that would pay an entire month's rent for a low income family, and she uses the Commons far more than any poor person. Even a welfare mother pays more taxes from her meager income than Paris Hilton. But Hilton would never be blamed for "making the wrong choices" if she were a drunk or drug addict even though she is living off far greater taxes than any street addict could ever dream to spend on their drug of choice.

Also "classism" is the new racism, ageism, and sexism because it is not illegal to discriminate against someone because they are poor. That the highest population among the poor are women, people of color, the aged, and LGBTQ is pretended to be ignored. You can deny a person a job, home, and any facilities (such as heat and lights to survive) based solely on poverty and nobody is going to do or say a thing. Yet more often than not, these are the people the rest of society "blames" for being poor, for "making the wrong choices".

Hope this helps

Cat in Seattle

It's a good thing you're not 'stupid'.

:applause:

I grew up in Canada with parents who were poor when I was a kid and after years of long hours my Dad's business finally paid off now they are loaded. I have friends who have moved abroad as fresh graduates and made tons of money. In fact, other nations with excellent economies that offer much better business startup services are way more like to have personal business success. Have you ever even left the USA? With such a stupid comment it sure seems like you haven't.

It costs money to start a business, money you need to save. In other developed countries they offer things like universal health care so you don't fall into medical bankruptcies which money you need to save to start a business. Also many developed countries offer little to no tuition costs so you can save and get an education.

the opportunities for even the most industrious among us are simply not there. The system is geared to make things even MORE difficult.

The system as it is now, and which it has been moving toward for decades, makes sure the "haves" get more and the "have-somes" struggle harder and harder to keep it, and the "have-nots" are just screwed all the way around, short of a literal miracle.

Hard work and good decisions really have little to do with one's success or wealth these days. Though certainly, being lazy and making bad decisions have consequences.

Oh, wait...they "haves" (i.e. Wall Street) don't seem to suffer consequences of their poor decisions and lack of industriousness.

Everyone's story is different. Everyone's circumstances are different. Not everyone can get rich just by giving up smoking and drinking (especially if they're already not doing either one). Starting a business requires seed money, and if you've been working $8 an hour jobs, you'll be lucky if you can pay for necessities at the end of the month, much less have savings or pay for college or vocational training.

Things are worse for the poor than they were just a couple of decades ago. Prices are higher but wages are not. Financial institutions have been given carte blanche to do whatever they want.

And as for the argument that rags to riches could happen "only in America," well, that's one of those legends that Americans tell one another.

The U.S. has less social upward mobility than any Western country except the UK.

account if one can't afford to maintain the minimum account balance required by most banks. At one time I had what was called a budget checking account, it didn't require a minimum balance, but it cost me 3 dollars a month plus 35 cents per check if I wrote more than 8 checks in a month.

and how did you get your seed money?
that last one being the most important.
When and how you get your money is very important.

the nature of your business? can you sleep at night with what you do?

There are ways to "get rich" right now, but they requite you to fuck over your fellow man, over and over.

the latest Amway scam is LTD leadership or some BS like that.
I got it from a lady at a catholic school when I was repairing their printer.
I didn't know what it was, so I googled it when I got home.
I have taken the high road and not Email'd her back where she can shove it.

:eyes:

You can tell that keeping the car running is a big part of this guy's problem with being poor, but when that goes a whole new can of shit is opened. Groceries, laundry (unless you have your own machine), getting to and from work with rigorous punctuality, all become a pain in the ass without your own wheels unless you live in an area with the necessities close at hand which usually means higher rent. What makes it such a pain is that everything takes so much fucking time.

without a car can be a huge time eater especially if you're traveling during off-peak hours.

If I have to make an appointment at 9:00 and the bus gets to a nearby (but not easily makable within 5 minutes, and also there might be a slight delay) location at 8:55 and runs every 20 minutes, then what I really have to do is make sure I'm there at 8:35. Now suppose, I have to transfer in the center of town. We're talking over half an hour of dead time.

:(

You're fucked!

Once after I came out of grad school during the Reagan recession as the proverbial unemployed Ph. D. I would have been on the streets without my family's help. I spent three years on part-time teaching jobs in the winter and temp agency jobs in the summer.

Then, when I was first starting my translation business, I was so poor for a while that I switched my phone service when a long-distance company offered $100 to switch.

Most recently, I had about 12 months of bare-bones living when the work temporarily dried up.

In my experience, everything the article says is true, although thankfully, I never had to resort to payday loans.

A major economic insight I gained is that unemployment affects a lot more than the affected individual. During the Reagan recession, stores were desperate for customers and advertising amazing sales on things. The trouble was that I couldn't afford to buy non-necessities, no matter how cheap they were. My one luxury was a daily 2-mile walk with a coffee stop at the halfway point.

News flash to all economic pundits: Poor people don't buy things. If you want the retail sector to recover, you have to have customers with money, i.e. jobs.

I'm a very capable Network and AV technician. and I can't beg for work.
I have interviews (a rare thing now a days) but never get to that next level.
Whatever is wrong with my projected personality (I tend to be honest to a fault) is enough for companies to decide they'd rather someone less competent but more ass kissing.

I don't live, as it were, on what scraps of work i do get.
I'm admittedly fortunate my mother pays my rent.

This started when I got divorced.
My wife has everything, I have 6k that I've burned through in the last 8 months living off of.
he's in Holland and im here, in the Mid west.

Actually Minnesota's not that bad. There's medical through Minnesota care (which is good as I recently went to the hospital for kidney stones and strep throat) and my rent is low.

The contract work I do is a real fucking scam. it's all 1099.... I am expected to pay my own taxes at the end of the year. I get no Soc Sec credit or unemployment credit.
I havent lived in America for nearly 7 years, so IM REALLY fucked when retirement comes.

I have only ever been well off for about 3 years, when bot I and my (ex)wife were working.
we werent rich by any means, but we had everything we wanted, and were content.
My commute sucked, and I was away from home for 12 hours a day. and things just broke down.

We did part on good terms (hence the 6k) but we didn't have much to begin with.

I've slowly built up some comforts, most of which were free or really cheap. I can fix things that are electronic, and im not proud (anymore).

I've given up applying to McJobs because im over qualified, and sick of being told so.
Poverty for someone with a degree is extra hard because you can't even get crappy jobs.
NO ONE WILL HIRE ME!!!

it's the same BS "you'll just leave when something better comes along" as if no one else would do the same!!! and it's not like im expecting to get better any time soon.

it's a vicious cycle, and frustrating as hell. I've worked fast food before... alot! and I don;t mind it. I usually work the register, or run between.

at least working flipping burgers I'd be earning Soc Sec and unemployment credit!

THAT'S something they rarely talk about, when ti comes to being poor as well... being unemployable.
I've forgotten more things than most people KNOW about computers and networks, and damned if I can get a regular job.

I'm in St Paul now (was in the middle of nowhere living with a friend of mine for 6 months) and I am at least getting those crappy 1099 jobs. My car needs engine work badly, but I can't afford it.

Mom added me to her family cell plan so I have a way to communicate with employers, but ATnT's reception sucks ass, in addition it seems that my california number is blocked by some phones (my land lord can't call me for example from his house line upstairs!) and i wonder how many jobs i've lost because of that.

I had to give up my pre-paid cell phone because the 20/mo was killing me for a while. Im a little more on my feet now so ill probably restart it.

yes I have money for rent and food. I try not to let myself get so bad I can't eat.
I buy very carefully, and EVERYTHING is from goodwill or craig's list. I'm fortunate there's and Aldi and rainbow foods all over the metro. the food is good and cheap, and I live for the dollar store.

I'm working poor. barely able to keep my nose at water. i live, but it's not much of one.