Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

If Cantor were shorting a publicly traded company he had this much control over

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » General Discussion Donate to DU
 
WonderGrunion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 05:08 PM
Original message
If Cantor were shorting a publicly traded company he had this much control over
He would be in jail right now for insider trading.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/8209315/eric_cantors_debt_ceiling_conflict.html

Eric Cantor's Debt Ceiling Conflict of Interest

House Minority Leader Eric Cantor made it known today that tax loopholes would now be allowed consideration in the debt ceiling negotiations. According to the Associated Press, the statement was a break from his former position that they only be considered in an exhaustive overhaul of the tax code. It is a slight break in what has become a deeply entrenched partisan-specific debate. But Rep. Cantor has a problem with conflict of interest with regard to the negotiations, something that was made public a week ago. So why hasn't he recused himself not only from the negotiations but from having anything to do with the debt ceiling talks and/or its subsequent vote?

Last week, Salon.com ran an article revealing that Rep. Cantor had up to about a $15,000 investment in ProShares Trust Ultrashort 20+ Year Treasury EFT, a fund that deals in "shorting" U.S. Treasury bonds. To explain: a "short" increases in worth when something fails. In this case: U.S. Treasury bonds. If the debt ceiling is not raised and the United States defaults on its loans, treasury bonds are likely to see increased market volatility and an assured drop in worth. If that were to happen, Cantor stands to make a lot of money on his investment.

Yet, the congressman is in negotiations with Vice President Joe Biden and others in what is supposed to be attempts at resolving the debt ceiling issue and keeping the government from shutting down, which could occur should a compromise not be reached by Aug. 2, the last day Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner maintains he can keep juggling the government's bills in order to keep it running smoothly without defaulting on at least some of its debts.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. Elected Democrats, why aren't you pushing this story?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WonderGrunion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. House and Senate Democrats should be flooding the airwaves
and calling for a full ethics investigation of Mister Cantor.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
18. Pushing it where?
The only Dem with media access is the president, and he's already proven that he won't investigate any repuke, regardless of how egregious the crime.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WonderGrunion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. 24 hour news channels need people to interview
The biggest problem we had the first two years of the Obama Administration is the lack of Democrats willing to act as surrogates for the president on the cable and regular news shows.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Holy shit. Wake up, WG
first of all, no actual liberal ever gets anywhere near the 24 hour news channels. Second, the reason Dems don't want to be Obama's surrogate is that he's much closer to the Repukes on almost of of these issues than any real Dems.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WonderGrunion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. The progressive caucus never fought for this president
And then wondered why he abandoned them and Rahm called their tactics "Fucking retarded".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
3waygeek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
29. Because they're benefitting from the status quo...
as much if not more than Cantor.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rdking647 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #1
45. its a non story
he has 3k in TBT. hes worth over a million dollars. its meaningless. if he really wanted to profit from a collapse in bonds there would be a lot better ways for him to make serious money than buying 3k worth of TBT. (shorting teh stock market as a whole come to mind)

cantor is a schmuck but this is really not a big deal
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AlabamaLibrul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
3. And a "short" also means that this fund goes up any time UST rates go up
which are being held artificially low by Fed.

This was making the rounds before, with the same breathless pronouncements.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
woolldog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. nevermind
Edited on Tue Jul-12-11 05:19 PM by woolldog
didn't read your post carefully enough the first time. :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
woolldog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
4. If he's short Treasurys
he's taken a beating this week and the end of last week. So no matter. It's not even clear that if the debt ceiling isn't raised, that yields will rise.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WonderGrunion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. And that may give him financial incentive to nix debt ceiling talks.
Eric doesn't mind if Grandma gets her SS check. He'll make a killing on the shorts.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
woolldog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. I know.
Just pointing out that if he's been short Treasury's recently he's been getting killed. heheh.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rdking647 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #6
46. not a killing
he owns 100 shares of TBT. Thats 3200 worth. TBT is designed to make twice the inverse move in treasuries on a daily basis.
do if bond drop 50% TBT would go up 100%. he would only make 6400 on his investment.
There are a lot better ways he could make a killing

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WonderGrunion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 04:46 AM
Response to Reply #46
48. OK so he only makes 6400 while stopping SS checks
I should feel better about this somehow?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rdking647 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #48
49. i agree he is a scum bag
but to somehow claim hes doing it because hes short bonds is just plain stupid
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
7. Cantor is free to short publicly traded companies that he owns stock in, too,
even when he's involved in Congressional votes that directly affect the company.

Congress isn't bound by any insider trading laws, according to something I read recently.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
westerebus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. You are correct.
Congressional critter's can actually trade on insider information and many do. Nice to write the laws that govern other people and exempt themselves from the same set of laws. You can bet that was bipartisan.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WonderGrunion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. It's not a matter of ownership, this is equivalent to being management
and shorting. He has the decision controlling equivalence of a COO or CFO. You can't short a company and then tank the company to make a killing. Cantor has the power over the debt ceiling talks to tank the Treasury.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. I agree that this is horrendous. I wouldn't minimize, though,
the seriousness of the other situation -- that Congress people are immune from insider trading laws.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
woolldog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. they are?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #14
28. Yes. Here's more info.
Edited on Tue Jul-12-11 06:07 PM by pnwmom
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/aug/06/public-citizen/public-citizen-gets-it-right-about-insider-trading/

Little-known fact: Members of Congress are exempt from rules that prevent insider trading.

Or so says the left-leaning advocacy group Public Citizen in a July 10, 2009, e-mail sent to supporters.

"The federal government has finally got the message that it’s time for stronger oversight of Wall Street and the financial services sector. It’s also time to put an end to secret spending and insider trading," the e-mail reads. "A dangerous legal loophole still exists which allows members of Congress and high-powered executive branch appointees to exploit 'insider' knowledge of the financial industry in order to turn personal profit."

It goes on to describe an army of lobbyists and traders who "haunt the halls of Congress seeking insider tips from staff — known as 'political intelligence consultants'" who may also use the confidential information.

SNIP

So yes, it seems there is a way for members of Congress to engage in insider trading. Whether they are actually doing it is another story. So far, there are no specific examples of lawmakers engaging in "secret spending and insider trading," as the e-mail indicates. But for its factual claim, we give Public Citizen a True.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
woolldog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #28
42. Thanks.
That's bizarre.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WonderGrunion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. That needs to change immediately
I thought Newt's Contract On America was supposed to make congress subject to the laws of the land. Or do I have conservative hypocrites mixed up?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
westerebus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. Management shorts their own companies when it suits them.
You are confusing SEC rules and fiduciary responsibility under contract law, they don't apply to Congress. The Congress exempted themselves a long time ago which is why they have an ethics committee. An you really have to be blatantly egregious in your financial dealings before any thing happens. Shorting T bills is not one of them that would get a meeting with the ethics committee staff let alone a hearing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #17
30. I'm not confusing anything. I'm objecting to the fact that Congress isn't subject
to any regulations about insider trading -- since they often have what amounts to insider knowledge. I'm objecting to the fact that they exempted themselves from such laws.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
westerebus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #30
36. The reply was to post #10, not you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. Ooops! n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
westerebus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. non problema
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WonderGrunion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. And, as admitted, my financial IQ sucks.
I'm pretty much a "Man on the street" when it comes to this stuff.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
westerebus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. It was not intended as criticism.
I support your man on the street's view. Logical, practical and truthful. Just needs a little more information. ;-)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ruby the Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. Interesting. What about SCOTUS
and whose brilliant idea was it to exempt lawmakers from adverse positions in companies directly affected by their decisions and votes?

If you recall where you read about that, I would love a heads up on what to google to find more information.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WonderGrunion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #15
22. Here's what i found about congress and insider trading
http://insidertrading.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=001759

US Congressional Ethics Rules on Insider Trading
Compared to 975 Other Government Agencies' Rules and Laws

Some government officials--by virtue of their position to regulate industries, enact legislation, or render court decisions affecting businesses--have access to nonpublic, market-moving information that can give them an advantage in the stock market. A 2004 Georgia State study revealed that US Senators' stocks on average beat the market average by 12.3% annually.

Under current insider trading law, it is unclear whether government officials trading securities based on material, nonpublic government information are liable for insider trading. The executive branch has established laws with criminal or civil penalties against the use of nonpublic information gained on the job for personal financial gain.

The legislative and federal judiciary branches, however, have codes of conduct (from hereon categorized as "rules,” which are not legally binding) or no rules at all addressing the use of material, nonpublic legislative or judicial information for personal financial gain.


Of course, more at the link.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ruby the Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. Most excellent. Looking forward to digging into that. Thanks!
Edited on Tue Jul-12-11 06:01 PM by Ruby the Liberal
Edit to add - what is all of this "should not" language? How about "may not" or "shall not" or will be found in violation of "name a law"?

Crimeny. I am not even allowed to have an ebay account, part time job or sit on a not-for-profit board without notifying my employer for prior permission.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WonderGrunion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #26
32. It's stunning how many laws you're exempted to once you get elected.
No wonder they don't want the average citizen getting into the game.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Turbineguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
11. He doubles his gain on treasury losses
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WonderGrunion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #11
31. And that should be illegal
It's a shame that it currently isn't.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ruby the Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
13. How many of them are holding PIMCO Total Return?
Largest fund in the world and a portfolio staple for fixed income (bonds).

Bill Gross has been short US Treasuries in that fund since the early spring.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AlabamaLibrul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. shh... then you can't convolute it into a vaguely political point n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ruby the Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #20
27. Like a passively managed ETF?
Got it. Mums the word.

(Still should be illegal for lawmakers. Period. Their investments should be black boxed while they are in office.)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WonderGrunion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #13
33. My financial IQ sucks
Could you explain PIMCO to me?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ruby the Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. PIMCO is a mutual fund company
Edited on Tue Jul-12-11 07:00 PM by Ruby the Liberal
Their Total Return Bond fund is the largest mutual fund in the world. Because of its size (and implied stability) it is considered a staple holding for people who are keeping a portion of their investments in fixed income securities (bonds). Bill Gross is the fund manager of the fund and announced in the early spring that he was selling off all US Treasuries and going short (they lose, he wins).

PIMCO also has Mohammed ElArian as a fund manager on their global fund. His name/face may be familiar to you as he does the cable news and talk circuits quite frequently.

Their site: http://www.pimco.com/EN/Pages/default.aspx

This isn't about financial IQ or anything of the sort - it is just one of thousands of companies who offer thousands of funds. I noted it because of it being a portfolio staple. One has to wonder how many members of congress are holding it because of its (relative) low risk and (relative) low return, but conservative investment strategy.

Thanks for asking!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WonderGrunion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. Awesome. I love learning about finance but hate CNBC
You rock
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ruby the Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. Hey - happy to help
I am in the industry and absolutely abhor CNBC and BloombergTV. Not all of us step in with that crowd...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rdking647 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #37
44. i like bloomberg
cnbc i hate most of their commentators and tend to have it one all day with the volume off. (i trade for a living) I especially hate tea party hero rick santelli. he used to stand next to me when he did his reports from the CBOT floor. he is as dumb as a box of rocks

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
24. Senate Minority Leader is betting on China over America
Senate Minority Leader is betting on China over America with his investments. By shorting US Treasurey Bonds Eric Cantor has proven himself a traitor. There should be a law that elected representatives must bet on America's success. Perhaps then they will do what's best for America instead of CHINA!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WonderGrunion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. There is your bumper sticker!
Eric Cantor just bet everything on red (China).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #25
43. Thanks
:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #24
47. you mean house majority leader?
Edited on Tue Jul-12-11 11:12 PM by Gabi Hayes
that said, wonder what McConnell's investments are.....

or what his wife is up to
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Mon May 13th 2024, 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » General Discussion Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC