Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

John Adams to Thomas Jefferson in a letter dated January 22, 1825.

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread		 This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » General Discussion Donate to DU
 
Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 12:36 PM
Original message
John Adams to Thomas Jefferson in a letter dated January 22, 1825.
Edited on Sun Jul-24-11 12:37 PM by Skidmore
Note: Google books carries the entire text of this book.



From The Works of John Adams, Second President of the United States: General correspondence, 1811-1825 by John Adams and Charles Francis Adams published by Little, Brown, 1856.

"Your university is a noble employment in your old age and your ardor for its success does you honor but I do not approve of your sending to Europe for tutors and professors. I do believe there are sufficient scholars in America to fill your professorships and tutorships with more active ingenuity and independent minds than you can bring from Europe. The Europeans are all deeply tainted with prejudices both ecclesiastical and temporal which they can never get rid of. They are all infected with episcopal and presbyterian creeds and confessions of faith. They all believe that great Principle which has produced this boundless universe, Newton's universe and Herschell's universe, came down to this little ball to be spit upon by Jews. And until this awful blasphemy is got rid of, there never will be any liberal science in the world."



Statements in this writing which would not meet the political correctness standards of today's society aside, I make note that John Adams was not on board with the theocracy many of the rightwing of today claim for the founding of this nation.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
LaurenG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
1. And if he thought Episcopalians and Presbyterians were bad he would
die of indignation if he had to put up with these morally decrepit tea-bagging types with their religiosity hanging from their underwear.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Curmudgeoness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
2. Adams didn't have to preach to Jefferson about religion either.
Jefferson did not have a great view of religion. I wish more "Christians" would think like Jefferson did:

"But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."
-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. These men were great thinkers for their time and with vision.
My favorite is Thomas Paine.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
white_wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Hell Paine was so radical though he made the others seems like royalists almost.
Not that I mind. Paine is my favorite as well.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Curmudgeoness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. I wish I knew where the great thinkers of today were hiding.
Paine was incredible. He would not be tolerated in today's climate.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dappleganger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. A great quote.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
patrick t. cakes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
4. america used to be progressive
hope we get back there some day
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Initech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
5. Oh I've got into so many arguments with people....
Over the subject of how our founding fathers weren't Christian that it's not even funny anymore, and it's scary - my own parents - who are both left-leaning moderates - don't buy into this either. Thomas Jefferson would not have approved of Fox News or Pat Robertson's craziness.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
white_wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. On another forum I post on I've had this argument and I can't seem to win.
They pretty much ignore the Treaty of Tripoli and go by a few personal statements and actions like Washington swearing on the Bible, Congress opening with prayer, etc.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. IMO when they refer to themselves as "Christian" they don't mean the religion
They mean "of European descent" or "white." It's a code word with them. America was certainly a white nation at its founding (except for a few free blacks who probably didn't have the right to vote). This may even be somewhat subconscious on their part, as they certainly advocate churchgoing and such, but if pressed, I wonder if they'd admit any black church as "Christian." We have their vomitations on Rev. Wright for a hint.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
indurancevile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. black people were about 20% of the us population in 1790 and about that in 1776.
that's more than today.

black people "discovered" and explored & pioneered the continent at exactly the same time whites did.

http://norberthaupt.wordpress.com/2011/01/16/u-s-population-in-1776-and-1790/
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-11 07:28 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Right wingers would not acknowledge that
Or know about it - my point was the way they use the word "Christian."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
indurancevile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. sorry if i misunderstood.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dappleganger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. They would have been treated like the snake oil salesmen which they are.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
10. On the other hand, they'd be entirely on board with the idea
that European scholarship is inherently lesser than American knowledge. European knowledge is somehow tainted, servile, and certainly possessed of less ingenuity and creativity than the wonderful scholarship naturally shown by the free-thinking and independent-minded Americans.


Amusingly, it's assumed that one set of assertions are necessarily true in order to use them as a political cudgel even as we pass over a different set of assumptions that would strike many, if not most, as offensive and puerile and could readily be used by the opposition in battering our viewpoints.

I'm easily amused these days.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hyphenate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. I do, however, doubt that most of our founding fathera
would find a place like Liberty University illuminating, or compare favorably with Cambridge or Oxford Universities. ;)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hyphenate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
11. And neither was Jefferson
They might have been Deists, but most of them did not subscribe to the shit that the religious right produces nowadays.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
white_wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 10:31 PM
Response to Original message
15. If you want to see a great critque of religon by one of the Founding Fathers
go with Thomas Paine's Age of Reason. I just started it and it is very good. Thomas Paine was at least 250 years ahead of his time, hell sometimes I think he was ahead of his time by today's standards.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SlimJimmy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-11 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. He was also arrested and nearly executed (in part) for writing it. He and
George Washington ended their friendship because of it. Not his best work, in my opinion.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
white_wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-11 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Are you sure he was arrested for the Age of Reason?
I thought it was for opposing the execution of Louis and pissing of Robespierre? Though you are right about Washington, he wanted to leave him to rot there, but Jefferson got him out.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SlimJimmy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. If I've read his history correctly, that bit of writing was one of several factors that pissed off
the French. But technically, yes he was arrested for opposing executions.

He also began writing a provocative new book, The Age of Reason, which promoted the controversial notion that God did not influence the actions of people and that science and rationality would prevail over religion and superstition. Although Paine realized that sentiment was turning against him in the autumn of 1793, he remained in France because he believed he was helping the people.

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/an-american-hero-is-arrested-in-france
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon May 13th 2024, 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » General Discussion Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators

Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC