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TomCADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 05:20 PM
Original message
US News - "Both Sides Aren't To Blame for Debt Ceiling Crisis"
Here is a rare article that does not enage in false equivalency, but calls out Republicans for turning a routine vote into a tool for economic extortion. Even better, it does not blame the Democrats for the actions of Republicans. Instead, it calls out Republicans for their extreme acts.

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/robert-schlesinger/2011/07/29/both-sides-arent-to-blame-for-debt-ceiling-crisis


There are many times when “Washington” falls down on the job, when “Congress” can’t do its job, and when “both sides” are to blame for whatever the failure of the moment is. Blaming both sides is easier than thinking, but it also has the virtue of sometimes being true. This is not one of those times. Let’s be very clear: The current debt ceiling crisis is the deliberate creation of the Republican Party, especially its Tea Party wing of fanatics.

Let’s start from the beginning. Raising the debt ceiling is a routine legislative matter. The debt ceiling was raised 18 times under Ronald Reagan; nine times under George H. W. Bush; six times under Bill Clinton; and seven times under George W. Bush. Sometimes the opposition party will use the occasion to score some political points (as when then-Sen. Barack Obama voted against raising the ceiling in 2006). But that was just political theatre because heretofore everyone understood that the United States could not default on its legal obligations, be they money owed to owners of maturing bonds or to Social Security check recipients, military personnel serving around the world, or border security guards expecting to get paid, or any other of dozens of functions of government that have been legally authorized.

It’s worth underscoring this point: The debt ceiling isn’t about new spending. It’s not about a “blank check” as GOP talking points would have you believe. It’s about paying bills that are coming due for goods and services that Congress and the president have already acquired. It’s as if you called your credit card and utility companies and told them that you were very sorry but in the name of fiscal responsibility you just wouldn’t be paying your bills. That’s neither fiscally conservative nor fiscally responsible. I can actually remember a time when conservatives stood for things like fiscal and individual responsibility.

But powered by an angry base that, frankly, doesn’t understand the issue and actively opposes the very notion of legislative compromise, the GOP decided to deliberately manufacture a crisis around raising the debt ceiling. It was, in the memorable words of House Majority Leader Eric Cantor, a “leverage moment,” to extract policy concessions from President Obama. But the GOP’s hostage wasn’t some esoteric or super liberal Obama initiative. It was a routine measure necessary for the continued healthy functioning of the economy.

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crazylikafox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
1. Bout time.
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. K & R - long past time! n/t
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
30. + google
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Shandris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
2. Hath hell actually frozen over?
Might explain why its so damn hot up here...

Good article. :thumbsup:
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Ruby the Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
3. US News = Wall Street and they are pissed.
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. It's going to be really...
... funny when the tea-baggers lose all their silent money backing over this stunt.
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #3
43. I've been saying this all along - Wall Street has the most to lose here.
If we don't get a clean bill and no raise on the debt ceiling, THEY will lose their fortunes, not most Americans.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 05:47 AM
Response to Reply #3
48. Not really.
They don't care what happens to the economy. As long as they know in advance, they'll make their money.
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54anickel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #48
53. Yep. If by "they" you mean the system that is Wall St. Just the nature of the beast, much like a
corporation's ultimate purpose is to return a profit.
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Patiod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #3
51. You're right - two Republican friends were furious last night
Edited on Sun Jul-31-11 08:31 AM by Patiod
Neither watch Faux - both are Northeast, Country Club, "I've got mine" Republicans.

The one said he's "had it" with the Republicans, and then fell back on the old "I'm really more of a Libertarian anyway".

The other is just horrified that her savings keep disappearing into the market. She then said "Obama isn't a socialist - he's actually a moderate conservative" (which is what she thinks she is). "These people holding up the debt ceiling and threatening the economy are really far to the right."

It was really surprising to hear such usually stalwart Republicans so angry at their own party.
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
4. in other news
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #4
17. Here, you are gonna need it
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jaysunb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #17
40. ROFLMAO ! @ both of you.
:rofl:
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
5. k/r
:kick:
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
6. Of course not. It's the old people and the poor whose
fault it is. :sarcasm:
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #6
33. No. It's the greedy baby boomers -according to Limbaugh. nt
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54anickel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #33
54. Wouldn't that be the ultimate projection? The greedy, recently turned 60 bastard!
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tedbear Donating Member (30 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
7. The confusion of the week - debt ceiling
This is a one-sided attempt to screw with the President and the American people.
IT is simple - the debt ceiling has ALWAYS BEEN RENEWED AND HAS ALWAYS BEEN RENEWED WITH A SIMPLE ONE PAGE PROPOSAL WHICH HAS ALWAYS BEEN PUT THROUGH.

IT IS ALSO SIMPLE WHAT IS HAPPENING NOW:

THE CON MEN - THE REPUBLICAN CON MEN WHO ARE IN THE POCKETS OF BIG MONEY ARE TRYING TO FORCE THE PRESIDENT AND DEMOCRATS TO EITHER GIVE THEM WHAT THEY WANT (WHICH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE DEBT CEILING) OR THEY WON'T VOTE TO RAISE IT.

Let them,the cons in the Republican Party,make the decision not to sign the debt ceiling increase and then let them take "credit" for the fact that the USA WILL DEFAULT FOR THE FIRST TIME IN HISTORY.

THE REPUBLICANS SAY THEY WON'T LET THE COUNTRY DEFAULT - LET THEM SHOW US.
THE PRESIDENT AND DEMS NEED TO ALLOW THE REPUBLICANS TO DECIDE ON THEIR OWN TO EITHER APPROVE THE DEBT CEILING OR LET US DEFAULT - NO OTHER DEALS.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Can we impeach them for using the power of their
office for criminal purposes?
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
9. Must read
Rec
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
12. It is so common to see the word 'are' that that is what I saw at first
until I focused on the title. THANK YOU US News.
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Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
13. Well said.
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russspeakeasy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
14. the angry rehog base is also an uninformed rehog base.
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AlinPA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
15. But "the masses" don't read, especially US News.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. THis is not the masses, this is WS sending really dark smoke signals now
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
16. I keep seeing more and more of a switch in the media
My ear is tuned to that I guess, due to studies on Nazi propaganda and messaging techniques.
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AlinPA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. There is a lot of propaganda now from the right. This afternoon we had CNN on for
a few minutes and the bald guy host was screaming about how the teabaggers were going to explain on his show why they don't want any revenue increased. While he was yelling they showed old video of teabaggers marching that included some nuns with their signs and it was clearly an attempt to make it look like the teabaggers represented a broad cross section of Americans. They kept showing the same clip with the nuns in it.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #19
36. CNN is as in the tank as Fox.
So is NPR and C-Span. I observed clear manipulation of callers on C-Span. Often the host will cut off liberal points of view while allowing idiotic right wing views. It is clear to anyone with a shred of objectivity.

See, first they took over the media......you know the rest.
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Miss_Underestimated Donating Member (239 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #36
44. Yes; and Neal Conan on NPR Talk of the Nation is always framing it as "both sides"
Edited on Sun Jul-31-11 01:11 AM by Miss_Underestimated
are to blame. He disgusts me. :grr:
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BobbyBoring Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
20. This is what Obama should have said VERBATUM
in his mini address the other day.


* Democrats asked Republicans to pass a clean bill, just as GOP leaders had supported many times in the past. Republicans said, “No.”

* Democrats invited Republicans to Biden-led bipartisan talks. Republicans quit.

* Democrats offered a $2.4 trillion debt-reduction package, 83% of which would come from spending cuts. Republicans said, “No.”

* Democrats sought a Grand Bargain, with more than $4 trillion in savings. Republicans said, “No.”

* Several Democrats offered some preliminary support for the “Gang of Six” blueprint. Republicans said, “No.”

* Many more Democrats signaled support for the McConnell/Reid “Plan B.” Republicans said, “No.”

I think even the dumbest of the dumb could understand that!

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TomCADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 07:11 PM
Original message
He Says It. A Lot. And The Corporate Media Called It An Angry Rant
...Remember the, "Can they say yes to anything?" I think we assume that Democrats are not making these points, because the media does not report it. Also, if the media does report it, then the media dutifully allows a Republican to say something that is the exact opposite even though what the Republican is saying is a verifiable lie. Afterall, fair and balanced means false equivalency.
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 07:51 PM
Response to Original message
27. You are right he did! They also say at the same time he
is a media hog. Yada..Yada..Yada..they are twisting themselves into pretzels...
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russspeakeasy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #27
41. Maybe if he said something like
"No fucking way am I going to allow the middle class to take all the hits..I have a giant pair of balls and I'm putting them to work.
I hope you fucking teabaggers have had a good time with your 15 minutes....it's over."
Now, all you chickenshits go back to your offices and bring me a bill that increases revenues and does not fuck with working people, or I will veto it. You have 48 hours. Goodnight." :bounce: :bounce:
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 06:28 PM
Response to Original message
21. I'm kind of blown away
Sad, I don't know how to handle it when a rag decides to do real journalism.
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blkmusclmachine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 06:31 PM
Response to Original message
22. Although a welcome morsel of truth, it's too little, & way too late.
n/t
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Indykatie Donating Member (416 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
23. Dems Failed to Educate Folks that Debt Ceiling is Solely Tied To Existing Bills
The idiot republicans have gotten away with getting uneducated listeners to think it has to do with future spending. As such we large large % of folks screaming not to raise it. It wasn't until Obama said that retirees might not get their SS checks that folks understood what was at stake. This was too late in the process. I shut republicans up by repeating that the debt ceiling fight wouldn't be necessary if it were not for Iraq, Afghanistan, Medicare prescription coverage and those wonderful tax cuts.....all Bush initiatives and supported by most of the same folks who don't want to increase the debt ceiling now . All public and televised appearances by the dems on the matter should have started with this clarification.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #23
38. You are exactly on point.
"The idiot republicans have gotten away with getting uneducated listeners to think it has to do with future spending."

THE IDIOT REPUBLICANS HAVE GOTTEN AWAY WITH GETTING UNEDUCATED LISTENERS TO THINK IT HAS TO DO WITH FUTURE SPENDING.
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #23
57. Inexperience shows.
Edited on Sun Jul-31-11 11:05 AM by Jakes Progress
Why did our side feel the need to tie this common practice to cuts in services and infrastructure. There was no need to have all this and tarnish our party with the idiots. There should never have been an offer of a "grand" deal. Just tell the nation what the debt ceiling is and tell the republicans to do what they have been doing under all of their presidents. The nation would have seen stupid republicans. But instead, the president played their game and got dirty too.

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City Lights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
24. Wow, even USNews won't cover for the GOP.
I'm pleasantly shocked!
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 07:06 PM
Response to Original message
25. They're anti-american terrorists
they should be treated as such, and a clear & present danger to the nation. I can't believe the rpesident plys nice with them constantly
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hifiguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 07:11 PM
Response to Original message
26. The entire Rethug party is as fucked up as
a left-handed football bat. To see this come from US News is like
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provis99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
28. so Democrats have been massively caving,
and Repubs still say no. When are Obama and the Democrats going to learn?
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #28
39. They are "in on it".
Come on! You have to realize this by now.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #28
58. The point of the article is that the Democrats are expecting something
routine and reasonable and the Republicans are to blame.
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 08:06 PM
Response to Original message
29. Rec'd. Always glad to see the blame go where it should
Thank you for this brief respite from the constant "Obama Bad" malarkey that goes on here.

But powered by an angry base that, frankly, doesn’t understand the issue and actively opposes the very notion of legislative compromise,

The different between the Dem base and the Repub base. Even though there are clueless imbeciles on both sides that think compromise and negotiating are curse words and have no understanding that these two concepts are the GROUND FLOOR of governing, the Dem base - powered by minorities, women, union workers and the college educated - know EXACTLY who is to blame.
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PatrynXX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
31. Someones I wonder if the republicans are going
to let us default to prove the the tea party fruits that their ass is going to get chopped off and and shoved down their throat.

Their ol trusty Dick Cheney always said. the debit doesn't matter. Which is BS. Dems want to lower it, not raise it. And Boner's plan would have us lose AAA status. Which basically is a tax hike for everyone. Which I'd assume Taxed Enough Already would have a stroke. Have us complaining about illegals not paying their own fair share? Why? Republicans can't seem to pay theirs either.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
32. Imagine that.
The FAR FAR right wing has become so unreasonable that the FAR right wing has to call them out. Imagine that.
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Crowman1979 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
34. I guess that rival news organizations aren't as intimidated by FAUX News as they use to be.
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FourScore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
35. EXACTLY!!!
"It’s as if you called your credit card and utility companies and told them that you were very sorry but in the name of fiscal responsibility you just wouldn’t be paying your bills." -- I've been using that same analogy.
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jimlup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
37. Succintly written piece which tells the truth
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groundloop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
42. WOW, amazing sanity from a major publication....
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 01:46 AM
Response to Original message
45. Let's hear it!
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iamthebandfanman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 02:08 AM
Response to Original message
46. its just an editorial blog post
...
am i missing the importance of this somehow?
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a2liberal Donating Member (381 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 05:42 AM
Response to Original message
47. K&R (n/t)
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Glimmer of Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 05:48 AM
Response to Original message
49. GOP/Tea Party = Obstructionist
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 06:48 AM
Response to Original message
50. K&R n/t
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 08:34 AM
Response to Original message
52. It's time for President Obama to send in Navy Seal Team 6.
The GOP wants to take hostages? We'll send in the team that takes out such terrorists!!!
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existentialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
55. this editorial is more important
because of its source.


US News and World Report is generally conservative.

Although they are conservative they do attempt a rational approach.

The true conservatives cannot support the teabag Republicans on this issue.

Further, when US News attacks them on this issue not only for being wrong on the issue, but for manufacturing a crisis, it is attacking their credibility generally.

The thinking right is attacking those in control of the Republican agenda, and attacking not only their agenda, but their credibility and good faith.

This is a good--if long overdue development.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
56. K&R
Love the third paragraph.
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Jim_Shorts Donating Member (355 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 11:11 AM
Response to Original message
59. A man just walked into a bank strapped with dynamite and we are giving him all the money
Does anyone really think they won't use this same tactic over & over again until we dismantle all of our social compacts and give them all the $.

As long as the dems don't just say NO, it's going to be heads they win, tails we lose.

I have one thing to say "F---YouWashington"
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South End Liberal Donating Member (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
60. Republicans have turned this into an attack on Social Security & Medicare

The puppet masters for this gang of Repubs is now yanking their strings to achieve their ultimate goal:

How Your Social Security Money Was Stolen – Where Did the $2.5 Trillion Surplus Go?

This article sums up what has happened to the surplus SS funds and why SS is now a topic of discussion in the debt ceiling debates.

According to Dr. Smith:
The government’s $2.5 trillion debt to Social Security is the real reason that so many politicians want to cut benefits. They are trying to find a way to avoid having to repay the looted money…. Given the fact that much of the surplus revenue from the 1983 payroll tax hike ended up in the pockets of the super rich in the form of income tax cuts, I propose a special tax on this group of taxpayers to recoup the missing Social Security money. The government used revenue from the Social Security payroll tax hike to fund tax cuts for the rich because that was where the money was. I think the government should recover the ‘embezzled’ money by taxing the rich.”


You can (and should) read the entire article at:

http://ampedstatus.org/how-your-social-security-money-was-stolen-where-did-the-2-5-trillion-surplus-go/

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orbitalman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
61. K & R x 1000
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harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
62. Light amongst darkness. Bravo to the editors.
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Firebrand Gary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
63. K&R +1000
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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
64. both parties are to blame.
the underlying motivation here is to find a way to cut ss/medicare. the cat food commission was the first shot.

not to mention that both parties are responsible for the debt itself and the fact that there are only iou/s in the ss trust fund and that everything has been spent on war.

any attempt to take the heat off the democrats is part of the overall ruse.

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fortyfeetunder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
65. I hope this little fiasco is a lesson in 2012
I observed what happened since Inauguration Day
the rise of the tea party (egged on by Sarah and her ilk)
**General frustration on POTUS performance since Inauguration Day.
(and it was interesting that the media seemed to forget the he!!hole the former president left the country in on Jan 20, 2009.)
**The birther/Tea party movement making a big stinking deal over a birth certificate.
**2010 election cycle resulting in GOP majority in the House, and almost in the Senate.
**Inexperienced Tea Party representatives are taking this debt ceiling vote as retribution against President.

Had the Tea Partiers been silenced in the 2010 elections, this conversation would not be taking place.

If the Tea Party sympathizers win the White House in 2012, I think we are going to be in a world of hurt.

Lesson -- most of us remember what happened between 2001-2009, we can prevent history from repeating itself by getting out the vote in 2012.
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earcandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
66. The Congress and the WH are committing TREASON against the American people and our constitution.
Edited on Sun Jul-31-11 02:16 PM by earcandle
14th amendment says this is so.
Isn't treason punishable by death?
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SoapBox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
67. K & R n/t
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LuckyLib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
68. This "crisis" is all about getting Obama.
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earcandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #68
69. Obama doesn't have any trouble being got by himself. Offering up to the alter what is not his to
give... Social Security and Medicare.

The job of government is to levy taxes to pay its bills. 
Government is failing its people to provide the goods and
services that keep us prosperous and with best practices. 
This government is on a trajectory to a third world economy
with feudal lords and slaves.  I will never be a lord nor a
slave.  I am free.  Are you? 
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seeker4ever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-11 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
70. If Someone Wanted to Chill Leftward Aggression in the Democratic Party, How Might They Do That?
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